Great question. The $1700 price tag of the M1A Scout has kept me from biting. I would like to know if there is a more affordable, and reliable, alternative.

 

Great question. The $1700 price tag of the M1A Scout has kept me from biting. I would like to know if there is a more affordable, and reliable, alternative.

Pricy? Yes it is, however Springfield Arms delivers one hell of a proven product. It might sound odd, but I don't mind too much shelling out a reasonably greater amount for quality and reliability....not just the name.:thumb: 'Hope this makes some kind of sense.

 

If you can find one there's also the Saiga in .308. You could leave as is or convert it to look like a regular ak. Ak reliability and a side scope rail that you can use a quick detach mount on. Costs a little over $500.00. Not as accurate as a G3 or M1A but from what I've heard more accurate than your standard ak.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct455.aspx

 

Kev I just read your post again (slower this time, kinda skimmed through first time). For a hundred yard rifle I think the Saiga would be a good choice. Saiga's are top of the line ak's and a low power scope or red dot should improve the accuracy as the main problem with ak's to me has always been the rather crude sights.

 

M14. Maybe it is a bit pricey but it is tried and true.

 

Agreed



Battle proven, excellent sights, readily available magazines, iconic design. :thumb:

 

You are right on target Kev. Unless you can find a used PTR91 or Century made HK91 in your price range (and it will take some looking) the Cetme is exactly what you want. The Cetme is the immediate ancestor of the HK91. After WW2 German engineers couldn't build rifles in Germany, so they moved to Spain and designed the Cetme. When H&K set up in Germany they went home and tweaked the Cetme into the HK91. They point and handle almost identically and share a number of parts including the $2 aluminum magazines. Last year I took my white tail buck with my Cetme.

They are not a 1,000 yard rifle, but if you can live with minute of bad guy chest at 300 yards, they are just what you need.

The Saiga gets compared to the cetme a lot. I have never handled a Saiga but the cheap and plentiful HK mags make the Cetme a LOT more attractive to me.

The only fly in the ointment is that most Cetme's on the market were assembled by Century arms who has had quality control issues in that department. If you have read up on Cetme's you have seen that discussed ad naseum already so I won't go there except to say that i bought two. One was good to go right off the shelf. The other was a single shot until I noticed that the mag well had been pinched. 10 seconds with a gentle pry bar put her back in perfect running order ever since.

 

Kev,

Gotta agree with Larry recommending the Saiga. At 100 yards, you will have plenty of accuracy for deer and hog kills, even with the 16" barrel. Personally, I would go with the 20" for more long-distance shots ... but if you are only going out to 100 ... go for the 16".

For the price, you can't beat it.

 

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=128660

 

FN/FAL Imbel

$799.00

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct618.aspx

IMBEL is an acronym for Indústria de Material Bélico do Brasil (Military Material Industry) a Brazilian state company, founded in 1975 as a quango of the Ministry of Defence.

Says Gabe Suarez:

The issue with the M1A is the scope mount. You have to do too much to get it right IMHO. And a rack grade M1A won't do much more than a rack grade FAL.

G3's problem is the trigger.

AR-10 is OK, but then we get into the same issues as the M4. You gotta keep it clean and maintained or else.

6.8? For those with lots of resources sure but until a militarty adopts it, there is surplus ammo available, and you can buy it at Walmart, its as interesting as the 7.5 Swiss to me.

Saiga is nice but will need work to keep up in the accuarcy realm. Then there are the magazines.

PSL is a good one but again...will need work out of the box and there is a lack of match ammo.

The FAL is not perfect either. It is not as accurate as the AR-10, but it can get dirtier than the AR-10 or M1A.

We could mince pepper flakes and fly poop about accuracy, but how much do you need. If I can hit a man in the chest at 600 yards....over and over and over, what more do you need? Will things get better if the other rifles will fire a 10" group instead of your 12" group....or even a 14" group?

None of them is a perfect beast, but unless we want to move back to bolt guns, I think its the best bet.

 

I own two Cetme's and recommend that everyone own two. Here's a lot more detail:

http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...=102816&page=2

 

I believe the Winchester SX-AR is selling for around that (maybe just above). Comes with a 10 round mag which I think are the same as the ones for the FNAR so you could use the 20 rounders.

Mags are pricey though.

 

Thanks for the link Atlantic arms link shamalama. I was able to find a carbine version of the FN - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct458.aspx

So now its come to:

Century Arms Cetme - $499 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct856.aspx

Atlantic Arms Imbel FAL carbine - $909 - atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct458.aspx

Is there really a $400 difference between the 2 rifles? From what I understand there are some quality issues with the century arms cetme.

 

I would go with an FAL and never look back. Then sometime down the road you could always trade it in and upgrade to an M1A. That's just my personal preference but another thing to consider is magazine cost and how many you want.

 

I would go with an FAL and never look back. Then sometime down the road you could always trade it in and upgrade to an M1A. That's just my personal preference but another thing to consider is magazine cost and how many you want.

'Nothing wrong with the FAL at all. Great keywords you used 'cause that IS what it is!:thumb:

 

Norinco M305B (M14 clone) for $429, but only available in Canada. I have one on pre-order as couldn't pass up one for that price.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-305.shtm

 

I don't blame you. I'm jacked we can't get that in the states.


BTW whom ever said Saiga is a high end Ak is incorrect. Saiga is the civilian version, always has been.

 

FAL from J&G for $699

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...cai,-synthetic-stock,-22in-barrel-w-muzzlebrake-/cPath/209_432/products_id/4505

But with century arms its hit or miss on the quality its either going to be a great gun or a bad one.

 

FAL from J&G for $699

I think I like the carbine better then the full version, and the carbine cost a little bit more.

------------------------------

So the difference between a Cetme and the FN, is one weapon works, the other may not. Or one might fall apart while the other stays together.

 

I'd skip it and buy better.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/cetme-308-a-8342/


FAL for $799 is a great price

 

Remington R-25 made by Bushmaster for like $1200

 

I wouldn't wright off the M1a just because of price. Yes, it is expensive, but if you are already spending $900+ on a FAL, an extra $300 (or $1500, depending on model) could be worth it.

I just got the Scout Squad 5 or 6 months ago and love it. Got mine in MT for about $1300 otd. It really is a high quality, accurate, FUN weapon! Love those iron sights (though I have a 6-20x40 mounted on a Sadlak at the moment)!

Unfortunately I don't own a FAL, but I have shot them, and would like to own one. Now, I don't know your financial situation, but if it were me I would save an extra couple weeks for the M1a.

Try getting your hands on one at the local range, and decide if it's worth it for you.

 

I would love to get one of the norinco m-14s,but they are very rare here thanks to the anti gunners.

 

I'd love to get one as well. I strongly suspect that Springfield's prices are as high as they are because they don't have to compete with anyone.

 

308 semi-auto

This is what I have come up with so far:

Cetme - $500 from century arms, with hit and miss quality

Remington model 750 - $600 - $700

Century arms FAL Rifle R1A1 - $699, lots of complaints about poor quality

FAL G1 SA Sporter from J&G sales - $700, but its still a century arms product. Who do I go to for service after the sale?

FAL R1A1 Sporter from J&G sales - $679, - its a century arms product, lots of stories of poor quality.

This is the one I really like - Century arms Imbel FAL .308 Carbine - $909, lots of stories of poor customer service and poor quality.

PTR 91 - $1,100, a little above my budget.

DPMS Panther - $1,100, a little above my budget.

Remington R25 - $1,200+, out of my price range.

FAL 58 - $1,200+, out of my price range.

I really like the looks of the Century arms Imbel FAL .308 Carbine for $909, but I do not want to buy a rifle that needs work. I would rather buy a remington 750 that does not need any work, instead of spending $900, and run the risk of having to send the rifle back for repairs.

Then there is the problem with finding an FFL dealer to get the Imbel FAL for me. I called a couple of gun dealers - 1 said he was going to look and call me back, but he never called back, 1 did not answer the phone, and another said he could not find the Imbel FAL.

I have called 4 different big stores - gander mountain, academy sports and outdoors and (2) bass pro shops. None of them had a 308 semi-auto in stock. 1 store had a remington 750 in 30-06, but I do not want the recoil of the '06.

I guess the Imbel FAL carbine is one of those things in life, even though I like it, it may not be the best choice. The overall length is right, the barrel length might be a couple of inches short - 16 might be a little short for a 308. But I want something easy to move around in a deer stand.

From everything that I have found, is the remington 750 is best choice for the price? I just can not see spending $1,200 on a Remington R25, when I can get a Remington 750 for almost 1/2 that price.

 

This is the one I really like - Century arms Imbel FAL .308 Carbine - $909, lots of stories of poor customer service and poor quality.

I really like the looks of the Century arms Imbel FAL .308 Carbine for $909, but I do not want to buy a rifle that needs work. I would rather buy a remington 750 that does not need any work, instead of spending $900, and run the risk of having to send the rifle back for repairs.

Kev, the IMBEL FAL you're looking at is made by Entreprise Arms, not Century. Entreprise used to be like Century (poor QC, etc), but they have improved over the years according to most people. They'll make right on the gun if it gives you trouble. They supposedly offer a lifetime warranty on their receivers. And as far as IMBEL parts go, they are a-okay.

If your interested in an 18" DSA STG-58 FAL, I can give you a link to one that is going for $1,040 + shipping. DSA is considered to make the best commercial FALs on the market.

ETA: http://www.entreprise.com/ - This is the company who makes the IMBEL FAL.

ETA2: http://www.entreprise.com/Fal/Carbine Rifle.htm - 18" Entreprise FAL Carbine.

 

DSA make good quality 308's

http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58 Rifles/products/8/

Not cheap, but 308's cost $$. Just how it is.

If you get one, go with the trigger job from DSA. Nice improvement.

Also talked with Kel Tec. They may be coming out with a 308 pistol like their 223.

I'd go with ther DSA 308 mini with a can.

Some 308 porn...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=207412

 

The Cetme apparently sends brass flying and beats the **** out of it on top of that, not a big deal to some but for those who reload that can be a deal breaker.

 

FAL, the right arm of the free world. Once issue military rifle for every NATO nation except the USA (which chose the M14 due to politics -- nothing wrong with M14 of course).

 

I've got a "Saiganov" Saiga .308 and it's much more accurate than most people give it credit for. As an example, my 14 year old sister (who had never shot before) can consistently peg a 1/2-gallon milk jug at 200 yards (6-18x50mm scope). This is with cheap surplus ammo. Don't write it off just yet.

 

unless your willing to pay it looks like your stuck with what century offers or somekind of rite time deal,if your really looking to upgrade may i suggest you bite the bullit so to speak and get what you really want i believe you mentioned an M1A,well here's a SOCOM,
http://www.gunsamerica.com/91696435...MORY_M1A_SOCOM_308_win_7_62_nato_16_GRN_SYN_AA9625_FREE_SHIPPING_END_OF_YEA.htm
or perhaps he may have something more to your likeing.
i have done business with this dealer before and he is honest and yes the layaway is for real if you wait untill the first of the year and layaway the rifle you want you have a year to pay it off, if you buy now you have untill december 31.....just another option for your consideration

 

FAL hands down.

I like all the others, M1A's, G3's etc. But the FAL is ultrareliable. I will go so far to say, as reliable as an AK. I have personally shot 1,000 rounds through my FAL without a single failure to feed, failure to fire, failure to extract or failure to eject. Third world surplus, NATO surplus, Wolf, Remington, Winchester, Federal - it does not matter. She just keeps plugging away.

It is extremely easy to field strip and clean. It can be stripped in less than 30 seconds. Sufficiently cleaned in less than 2 minutes and will eat and shoot any type of .308 or 7.62X51 available. If it gets too dirty and carboned up, turn the gas pressure regulator up and she will continue to shoot.

It is also very comfortable to shoot. Great ergodynamics.

With open sights you can count on 4moa every time. With a cheap scope and mount, that goes down to 2moa. The iron sight goes to 600 yards and the front sight post can be used as a range finder using the 1-2-3 / 2,4,6 rule: a target with a 21 inch spread that fills the front site is 200 yards away, if it take 2 of those targets to fill the sight, it is 400 yards away and if 3 of the targets fit on the front sight post, then it is 600 yards away.

I built both of mine for the $700 range each. Use a good StG58 kit with an original Steyr StG58 barrel. There is none better. That will cost between $300 and $400 dollars. Use a good Imbel receiver. That is also between $300 and $400 dollars.

To assemble the barrel to the receiver, I literally put a piece of 2X4 in the receiver and put it in a vise. Then used a pipe wrench to screw the barrel on. Put grease on the barrel threads. The pipe wrench chewed up the outside of the barrel, but that is not a big deal to me.