Sad. I guess the extreme amongst us will always risk. Prayers for that family.

 

Yes for sure, I go off in the Depths of Winter but everything I take is the most the most Extreme kit money can buy or the next best thing And I always have my Van and RV Trailer to take shelter in,

It can be done safely, People in the US and Canada Live and go Shopping in temps of -20*f/-29*c down to -40 and below on a daily bases yet this youngster bless him died in -6*c / 21.2*f +/-. It's just tragic,

 

Grew up in Minnesota.

Was quite common to hear of people found frozen to death that were away from their camp or vehicle, and/or had taken their winter coats off, etc.

Thing is when you get to a certain point you get delirious and can do things like walk off as if you're going to get somewhere instead of staying put.
Also after a certain point you get numb from the cold and start to feel warm, thus shedding clothing, etc.

Point is to recognize the symptoms while you still have your wits about you. If not, you can end up doing ridiculous things and hasten the end.

Anyone who's been out in real cold probably knows what it feels like when your toes or fingers start to go numb, then sting like hell when they warm up again.
That numb part is basically what starts happening over the body instead of just the extremities, then they feel warmer, because really they can't feel the cold.

 

Yep, I have had the beginings of frostbite on my hands and other symptoms back in the late 70's and I vowed Never again, I was lucky but wet clothing and gloves etc are a real killer when things go south. And it is a Pain all of it's Own and without help your in big trouble.

 

The thing most people are not realizing when they take these trips is that despite the best kind of equipment, you still need a certain amount of backup.

The military (and mountain expeditions with porters) have truck loads of food and equipment as supply backup.

 

My circulation in my hands and feet have been shot since my teenager gears, traplines and paper routes. After a while I bought the best gear I could afford. I still wear layers and layers all winter.

 

Yep.30 years working in kitchens.Hands immersed in ice or a 600F oven,add the thousands of tiny cuts and burns.My fingers are a mess.

 

Sad. Some people especially those who are interested in things like survivalism, prepping, outdoors and other male dominated topics do believe theyre invincible. Some of them wise up over time or after scares. Some don't. I don't walk more than a few hundred feet from camp without a spare base layer, lighter, knife. I don't go off grid without sat comms. Take a space blanket or two.

People who need rescuing broadly fall into one of two camps. People who think oh yeah it makes sense that I need help, I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm not outdoorsy, I'm not a healthy fit person. 10-20%, and they almost never find themselves in life of death conditions because they're willing to swallow their pride and ask for help. The rest think they know what they're doing, they're in good shape, and a good chunk, maybe half of them I agree with. No amount of doing the right stuff prevents accidents or bad luck.

 

I grew up in the deep woods. Knew them like the back of my hand. Went in on an evening deer hunt and after dark my flashlight went out. I turned right when I should have turned left. After walking long enough that I should have been out I figured out I made the wrong turn. Knowing the woods so well I decided to walk in a straight line to get out and leave the trails. After about 2 hours it was around 9 I realized I was lost. I found a nice bushy tree and raked up a huge pile of oak leaves. I climbed into the leaves and buried myself. Though it was only getting into the upper 30s I new I would need warmth. Around 11 pm I heard a horn honking a long long ways off. I got up and walked towards the honk. I made my way out on the complete opposite side of the woods i entered. My grandfather figured I made that wrong turn and went to were he thought I might have went and honked so I would have a guide. He rescued me by his woodsman intellect. Lesson learned you never know the woods as well as you think you do in the dark.

 

After working Bering Sea and N Atlantic for a few winters.
As well as recreational endeavors on foot, snowmobile, ice fishing, mtn biking etc etc.
Two lessons learned in reference to people dropping near and around safety of some degree.
One, never place keys on vehicle exterior when ON the docks, learned before losing keys thankfully.
Two, if freezing cold and, fell in the water or through ice etc. Get keys out of pocket immediately upon exiting.
People have died standing at vehicle, frozen hands unable to extract key from pocket.
Scary.
More people today, more mistakes chosen or otherwise.

 

People tend to forget that going "Jeremiah Johnson" isn't all it's cut-out to be. Living off-grid is not easy---even with the best preparation. It shouldn't be romanticized. Too many movies---and videos on YouTube---give a skewed idea of what it is like to "go bush".

For every "mountain man" and "pioneer in the wilderness" who was successful, there were far more who died.

Once a modern person moves away from all the modern things and technology we have, the world of nature is a very unforgiving place.

 

Yes but even Jermiah Johnson went up and failed in the beginning. It wasn't until Griz takes Jermiah under his wing and teaches him that Jermiah knows how to survive.

 

Agree with^^ I think people get overly confident in their skills; cocky. I spent a lot of time in many diff environmental extremes (cold being by far the most demanding in my opinion). I had a wake up call to bring me back to humility last year around this time (Dec 24th). I was putting new u-joints on on my F250. Bought some nice Spicers and had them shipped a couple weeks prior. I get one set on (front of front driveshaft) then started on the rear. If you have ever done this before on a F250 superduty or other 3/4 ton or larger, you know how everything is heavy and ginormous.

I expected to get done on the 23rd. At 1930 i realize the rear set is wrong. Stupid me didn't check when i received them. Well, i called the part store- they would be open till 2000. I had just enough time to get there and buy the right set. I hoped in my wifes Subaru Forester (which is a bit of a stretch for me to drive since i normally drive a F250. I put on some very light cross trainer shoes, a pair of jeans, a spring jacket and a almost dead cell phone. Hopped in the car and drove off. It was 10 deg, 20-25mph wind, dark and snowing huge snow flakes. Not a single car on the road. 3 minutes into the trip, i thought- this is dumb and likely not gonna go well for but i was committed. In the aerospace industry for pilots, this is called plan continuation bias. I think this is what happens with incidents such as the guy that died. Anywho- i was half way there and turned right and instantly went frame deep on the right side. Nothing, no movement forward or back. I called my wife and let her know what happened- i had to interrupt her admonishment ("i told you so- blah blah") and ask her to get a tow truck. Well, I couldnt tell where i was and not enough signal for GPS location. So i get out of the car (with it still running and the tailpipe buried in snow (bad idea). I look around and its completely dark, i see a house way up the road (this is all sparsely populated farm area for miles). One light on in the house so it was my only option. I walked about 50 yards (no gloves, hat nothing) and abandoned that COA and went back to the car. Im like- wow- i might die out here; for no reason whats so ever. Then - a tow truck shows up; just happened to be passing by; complete fluke. Loaded it up and was back home in 20 minutes.

Point: Prep for basic scenarios no matter how unlikely you think it is and listen to your gut so you can break the plan continuation bias insanity. It was a good lessons learned that didn't cost anything (insurance reimbursed the tow) but a little time. I went and looked at the location a few weeks later in the light to see what happened. Well, there was a 8" deep washout where my tires went in. My F250 4x4 would have rolled right thru it.

 

I used to work summer and winter in the mountains of CO, WY, but primarily AZ NM visiting Comm sites on mountains to upgrade microwave communications sites, that needed to grow with the technology. It took far longer to load in my survival contingency gear than it did to load the technical stuff. Even a short run from Phoenix to Albuquerque could turn into a trip to a very isolated location in bad weather when the trip was altered by management en route. Years later, going from SE AZ at Christmas in Greer I carried the same load-in minus the tech stuff but adding the dog. The discipline never leaves you after a couple of bad ones, like a blizzard in Evanston WY or going over Lizzard Head to get to Telluride for an appointment. No time for T-shirts and driving slippers.

 

Good story. These are the things that can happen at any time. I believe many of us have similar stories that except for the grace of God, we would not be here today.

 

Amen!

 

I bought the kit that I researched to be the best and as I like the Cold and Blizzards etc I know that in everyday life that my kit will keep me alive, I won't ever be heading to the Yukon or the Arctic but I have what is needed to survive there So I know that I should be Ok in the places I go in Winter where -20*f/-28*c with wind speeds of up to 150++mph are possible which can cause a windchill of -58.3*c / -72.9*f which is pretty damning as far as UK weather goes,

People over here don't really think it through, they either hide indoors or go out under dressed, My family are prime examples of this, Having the right gear is not about Prepping it is something we should all do/Own.

The fact that this youngster was over confident in temps (-6*c / 21.2*f ) that are quite warm for the Country he was in when the wind got up to 46mph dropped the winchill down to -18*c / -0.4*f just goes to show how little it takes for things to go south.

So many survivalists/Preppers or what ever they like to be called appear to be on an ego trip to claim who can do it the worst etc, Much like the youtuber who was taking his 3 or 4 year old Son out in temps of -30/-40 etc is just nuts, Coz if something had happend to that child I can't imagine how that conversation would have gone when he got home to his wife/Mrs remembering that a young child does not have the fat reserves or the Cardio a healthy Adult has. Many of these pursuits are our hobbies/Ideals and we should not subject others to endure them just because we crave winter excitement in search of something to Prove.

 

I'm not sure that the takeaway is that "you don't have to test stuff if you buy the right gear."
Gear just provides you the means to apply skills, and skill development (and gear familiarity) requires practice. If he was kitted out in top of the line gear, he may well still have panicked and gotten lost, and the outcome could've been the same.

People DO need to take the gear out to see if it-and they- pass muster. The problem is setting themselves up so that failure in practice carries the same penalty as failure in a real survival situation: death.

This guy needed to be in his back yard in subzero weather, so that he could just go inside if he was in over his head. Instead, he went "off grid" to the degree that evacuation was impossible, and didn't have any backup plans. I guess that's the problem with a lot of "survival training"- since it "is" the backup, people don't have a sense of what else to do if things go awry. Consequently, training for a life-threatening situation becomes a life-threatening situation.

 

I'm not sure that the takeaway is that "you don't have to test stuff if you buy the right gear."
Gear just provides you the means to apply skills, and skill development (and gear familiarity) requires practice. If he was kitted out in top of the line gear, he may well still have panicked and gotten lost, and the outcome could've been the same.

People DO need to take the gear out to see if it-and they- pass muster. The problem is setting themselves up so that failure in practice carries the same penalty as failure in a real survival situation: death.

This guy needed to be in his back yard in subzero weather, so that he could just go inside if he was in over his head. Instead, he went "off grid" to the degree that evacuation was impossible, and didn't have any backup plans. I guess that's the problem with a lot of "survival training"- since it "is" the backup, people don't have a sense of what else to do if things go awry. Consequently, training for a life-threatening situation becomes a life-threatening situation.

That's not quite right, when it comes to testing Clothing out, If you buy Known/Proven gear then there is a good chance it will work for you, This ofcoarse changes person to person beit through health issues or Age and even state of mind, My Parkas are rated down to -60* and below but I don't need to go out and test it in such temps because my Goal should be to Avoid going out in such Temps and in places that cold then building a Snow Shelter will give you a place to hold up in that is around -5*c/23*f inside, No one in their right mind would be out in those temps unless you are running the Yukon Quest or the Iditarod where it is not uncommon to be stuck out in -80* windchills on a few occassions.

I agree with you saying that he should of done his testing closer to home, Buy a Down 8000m suit is going to keep you warm down to -40*c/-55*c so if you add other layers like a thinner down jacket under that then it is going to add another 5 or 10* more to the comfort level, That being so you are going to be hard pressed to find anywhere local to test it where the temp drops down to -65*c/-85*f. To be able to test my Boots I would need a Cryo Chamber.

Nower days with the Internet we can find all the tests we like and manufacturers are only too willing to give you the Good oil on all of their products So we don't have to go off and test this stuff, Or just go and buy proven Military Kit, People go off doing these half baked things is asking for trouble, Ask anyone here from Canada or from the US Northern States and they will tell you that when things go bad it is best to stay indoors,

 

another example of an important piece of life wisdom. you can't go from couch to marathon in one jump. you're not ready, there's a lot you don't know, and the bigger the leap, the more likely that small mistakes become huge disasters.

much better to figure out winter survival is hard while you're in your backyard than miles from camp. i have spent enough time roughing it to know that i have no interest trying to survive in the mountains in winter out of a backpack.

but i can remember a time when i was younger and less experienced and would have thought to do something like this....probably a good thing i didn't have enough time off from work back then.

 

Same thoughts, like anything else you have to practice. Cold is half physical and half mental. Feeling cold is different than being cold. Age 14 I got tired of feeling cold, took my coat off and laid in the snow for 30 minutes. Once hypothermia started, I went inside. Haven’t felt cold since, but still experience cold when it’s really cold.

 

When is YouTube and social media in general, going to be held liable for deaths and injuries of their “influencers’ “ behavior?


Even the Guniness Book of Records ended record making that they deemed dangerous or stupid.

 

One of the biggest mistakes I see at elk camp every year is those that fell for the over hyped junk on the net. they show up with this Krapp and swear it's the best thing going only to end up spending the next 2 weeks in or near camp shivering like a dog s----ing walnuts.

 

Spot on. Designer Hunting Clothing.

If you are unsure what to buy, get Genuine Military Cold Weather Gear.
It is not stylish, but designed for keep you alive.

Have 3 ways to make fire, do not over'heat and sweat, and count to 100 before you do anything drastic.

 

Only thing you can do in a potential hypothermia situation is to keep moving, to generate body heat. Best avoided. 8,000m climbers have the correct gear, but many die. I have a photo in my hall of me and two others in deep snow and near white out, about to tackle Striding Edge. I called it off. We had no winter climbing gear or survival equipment, only walking gear. It was hard enough plodding through the powder.

 

Even with my -60* Parkas I still work on other kit to layer up to wear under the Parkas, The Parkas work fine and I have been wearing them since 1974/5 and I have Never been cold wearing once.

A good pair of Bibs is a must have item, get these two Items right and Hats Gloves and Feet are easy to perfect.

 

Even with my -60* Parkas I still work on other kit to layer up to wear under the Parkas

Out of curiosity who makes those parkas?

 

I would have LOVED to know what he did wrong !.

Nice hearing your opinions, but I wanted to hear & learn EXACTLY where that

 

Well at the moment the only info that is out there is just repeats of what the guy in the video said, But I will see what else comes out.

 

So sad, to die alone so needlessly and in such a manner....

 

Here is one of that guy who takes his 4yo Son out in the bush, the thing that made me click on this video is because the main YT picture in the title was on the little boy covered in Snow fast asleep with his cheeks looking bright red. Doing that to a child is bordering on Child Abuse.

 

This thread reminds me of Christopher McCandless who froze to death in a bus because he thought he was a survivalist.

This guy needed to be in his back yard in subzero weather, so that he could just go inside if he was in over his head.

The best advice ever.

I would have LOVED to know what he did wrong !.

Me too. All the first class equipment in the world won't save you if you have no idea what you are doing.

 

As a human and a father this sucks to hear. But as a real person I think of play stupid games win stupid prizes. Reminds me a lot of INTO THE WILD story but with a big difference the kid in Alaska was an explorer the kid who just past away was for profit and fame. But in the end both un prepared similar results. Sad

 

I maybe should not even post but an awful lot I could post about surviving and Living in a cold snowy area which mine is south central WY and I mostly am camping from mid June to mid Oct for 32 summers now. I have stayed / camped Lived on my mtn retreat until Nov 30th and a week in early March with up to 8 foot of snowpack. Deep snowpack actually helps keep one warmer than in mid Nov or Dec with a foot or two of snow. Also snow caves are good which I have spent 2 nights in a snow cave over 20 years ago.

I have thought about staying year round but just cannot get completely prepared with building a very large wood shed and getting ten cords of firewood etc Plus the food stored on shelves

In the past I did a lot of extreme camping usually in the summer but also in the winter some. Being alone have to Much more careful. I have tried to start a campfire in wet 3 foot deep snow and just got too cold and so I hiked out ten miles downhill at least to the nearest town. One more thing is sleeping with below zero temps is I have had the best experience with good winter sleeping bags and usually a bag even a summer type bag inside the heavy duty Browning sleeping bag which is heavy and not a backpacking bag. Just have to stay inside the sleeping bag as long as possible and if possible Never hike out during a blizzard!

More I could tell about but I have in some pic threads if any remember and I have not even told half of what I could.

 

I think its pretty much at the point of just wait and see if the ole boy makes it back or if he can send updates…hes set on going🙏

 

Not one piece of kit hasn't been tested in the back yard for cold or winter camping. Neighbors and family always thought I was weird pitching a tent or tarp and setting up camp in the snow but if something wasn't working home was 2 steps away. Hypothermia will kill you. His kit load out would be interesting to review from a learning perspective but freezing to death is a terrible way to go.

 

Madam Darwin is a cruel fickle gal...

 

Experience and Knowledge > Gear

This is a classic Into the Wild type situation. There was someone with little know how attempting to do something that took an expert that has safe guards in place, and it cost their life.