[barnetmill]

For $250-$300 you could buy a Hi Point 9mm carbine, despite what the naysayers think, they run well. But they have 10 round mags, and 9mm actually penetrates more through sheet rock and walls, than .223 does, according to what I read.

So...I'd stick with shotguns and/or AR's for HD, personally.

For a bug out weapon that hides easily, as per the OP...the 7.62X39 "pistols" are probably better/more effective in a wider range of scenarios than a 9mm semi carbine, in most ways other than ammo costs. Add a "brace", and you would be ready to take care of business in even more situations.

If I want a high cap 9mm weapon with great maneuverability and good sub 25 yard range...why not a Glock, Ruger, CZ or other pistol?

I have one that never worked. If it is all you can afford, yes than go hipoint. IF you can afford better, then go to something more durable and with a greater magazine capacity.

 

[Das Sheep]

I have a CZ Evo.

Its not really the gun I would choose over my AR in a gun fight, but I would not feel unarmed with it, and its a super fun gun to shoot. Its also pretty cheap to feed. I might SBR it when the CZ 922r kit comes out.

 

[Silentpoet]

One advantage of the PCC in some forms is the fairly controllable recoil. Especially something like an UZI that is good and heavy. But I am not sure the AR 15 in .223/5.56 is going to kick more.

 

[[_]ni/\/\og]

I wish Glock would enter the smg market, for no other reason than I have a metric buttload of magazines.

But as of late i've been eyeing DJ Getz 10mm Mp5. I've heard good things about workmanship and price.

 

[azb]

If you're going to sbr a pistol, start with a pistol that at least uses an intermediate cartridge. I can see someone preferring less recoil than a full rifle round, but get something that at least has some penetration. The whole point of putting the stock on it is to get stability and accuracy, especially at longer ranges. The Scorpion pistol is fun, but it really doesn't even need the stock because the recoil is non existent.

I think 762x39 round is just about perfect for the role. Good penetration, heavy bullet at decent velocity and at ranges out to 100yds or slightly more... Everything a 9mm won't do, but with slightly more recoil. Slap on the stock, and the recoil is manageable. With a folding stock, you still have the option of point shooting or concealment, and it only take a couple seconds to unfold the stock for longer ranges or if you aware of a threat ahead of time and don't need the concealment.

556/223 is not quite as ideal because of the lost velocity and effectiveness from a shorter barrel. If you can do a 10" barrel and use heavier projectiles, it is still very workable.

If you can handle the recoil, .308 gives you even more of a good thing, but it's probably overkill and definitely harder to handle with the stock folded up.

Going full auto is a waste of ammo, although in a mob situation I suppose it could have a pretty serious effect on morale.

Az

 

[Truck Vet]

I'm getting a nice bonus around the holidays, due to financial obamaconomy troubles I had to sell my AR and I have now only 2 9mm pistols. So I'm going to use part of said bonus now that money is back on track for me TO BUY GUNS!!!!!

Okay back story complete. I've pondering the scorpion EVO S1. It's 800$ and I can sbr it with no smithing required. Totaling around 1200 for the entire package. 30 round mags are sub 20$ range, numerous tests on YouTube have proven it reliable and quality. So I guess it's just comes down to 9mm or 5.56! Gasp....
Hear me out first, in south/central Florida the jungle is thick and if it's not your the city. So urban/ close (sub 50 ft) realistic engagement range. 9mm is probably the easiest round to come across that's Self defense worthy and it's a small light package that I can carry more ammo with in less space. I live in the city so I will be bugging out to predetermined location and setup. It is also concealable in a pack. I think for *realistic SHTF stuff or HD it's plenty good.
Any reasons I shouldn't go this route?

The only reason I can think of not to go that route is "hunting." I would rather go with a folding stock carbine you can put in a pack. I see nothing wrong with going with 9mm in your situation. Personally I would want a 16 inch barrel for the increased velocity which will give the 9mm the same knockdown as a 357 python. Plus the folding stock will give you more accuracy than your pistols.

Sure you will be at a disadvantage to a rifle round in some situations but having the same ammo for carbine and pistol will help a lot. I would look at the Just Right Carbine, and Keltec.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I know some gun owners myself included that will grab their 9mm carbines and a couple hi-cap mags or their 12ga if some bad situation busted out around their home and/or neighborhood. several makes of the carbines interchange mags with common handguns. a big +. and the 16" barrel makes good use of +P ammo. about another 150 or so FPS which means more energy. the longer sight radius gives good accuracy too - over a pistol or shotty.

 

[barnetmill]

It is most wonderful if you have and like HIGH POWERED semiautomatic rifles. Some of you in good physical condition can handle the HIGH RECOIL during quick firing better than someone like me.

Some individuals can afford the HIGHER COST of high powered rifle rounds. No matter what the targets are.

If you like a larger muzzle flash, it is ones right to enjoy it.

If one can do with a pistol round what others use high powered ones to accomplish for a job, so be it. The coyotes, pigs and, other varmints I have nailed out at the ranch all dropped by 9mm, FMJ, 124Gr went down fast.

The GERMAN army used a long pistol, ( MP40 ) in WWII to drop many enemy soldiers in battle. Later, the ISRAELI army controlled ground assaults from all sides with the HELP of a few 9mm UZI SBR units.

The original poster of this thread asked us for some input on a system I thought fit that what I expected from similar experience. If someone else chooses to use more powerful stuff, that is great. What ever floats YOUR BOAT. :thumb:

Yes it (The 9mm) works well for animals that do not shoot back. But when you have people that are using vehicles and other materials for cover during a SHTF scenario, I want the rifle cartridge. Ak ammo is comparable in price to that of 9mm. Now days quality AKs tend to cost more than quality 9mm so for those on a budget perhaps your are right. Remember the MP40, that the germans wish to replace it with the MP44 that was an assault rifle. The russians used the pay pay shah submachine gun in WWII, and did eventually replace all with the AKs.

 

[barnetmill]

I wish Glock would enter the smg market, for no other reason than I have a metric buttload of magazines.

But as of late i've been eyeing DJ Getz 10mm Mp5. I've heard good things about workmanship and price.

Glock has the G18, but being full auto it is beyond the legal reach of most of us. There are some sort of kits that allow a glock pistol to become a semiauto carbine. Technically it is not so difficult to make a glock into a highly illegal FA, but I will certainly not go that route.

 

[hoplite59]

Keltec sub 2000 9mm glock flavor. $500 gets you in the game and it can use glock mags you use for your 9mm pistols, assuming they are glocks.

 

[tubist]

Well, in an ideal world, a full auto/burst 9mm SMG would be the perfect weapon for home defense. Like, an MP5 on burst with a suppressor and red dot sight would be absolutely perfect.

However, true full auto weapons are collectors. 99% of collectors would never risk using their collectible guns for home defense. Yes, it is legal. However, it looks bad in court. Plus, who wants their vintage Tommy gun to get all rusty in an evidence bag?

If full auto becomes readily available, I'll get such a setup for home defense.

 

[Nutty Old Geezer]

First, the OP is not talking about full auto. Semi only. Second, I still think it would be foolish to spend all of a one time bonus, when he had to sell his only AR due to money problems. This reminds me of kids running around town in a 4 door 1982 Dodge Colt. With 2000 dollar rims/tires and a 500 dollar fake ass trunk wing mounted on the trunk lid. While wearing their Taco Bell work clothes. Foolish. Don't waste what little money you get. If you don't have a personal defense rifle like a AR/AK, do that and save the rest for bad times (which the OP has already experienced once before).

ETA- the Germans used the FULL AUTO MP40 it is true. They lost that war, didn't they?

 

[Al Diehl]

First, the OP is not talking about full auto. Semi only. Second, I still think it would be foolish to spend all of a one time bonus, when he had to sell is only AR due to money problems. This reminds me of kids running around town in a 4 door 1982 Dodge Colt. With 2000 dollar rims/tires and a 500 dollar fake ass trunk wing mounted on the trunk lid. While wearing their Taco Bell work clothes. Foolish. Don't waste what little money you get. If you don't have a personal defense rifle like a AR/AK, do that and save the rest for bad times (which the OP has already experienced once before).

ETA- the Germans used the FULL AUTO MP40 it is true. They lost that war, didn't they?

The British used STENS and won the war. Just sayin'. (You know I'm just messin' with NOG)

Al

 

[barnetmill]

The British used STENS and won the war. Just sayin'. (You know I'm just messin' with NOG)

Al

The British were on the winning side and did fight hard in north africa, Italy, france, and Germany. All of the major players in the fight with the NAZIs used submachine guns whether they were on the winning side or not. I do not believe that the Japanese forces used a lot submachine guns. They made perhaps 24,000–27,000 of the type 100's.

 

[Runamok]

A semi auto 9mm SMG when you already have two other 9mm handguns is a waste. The rounds are painfully slow compared to ANY combat rifle round and have little use past 30m. If you want something that is a little more transportable I suggest a folding AK-47. Spend roughly $1000 on the rifle, 10 mags and a case of ammo and you should be set.

 

[Al Diehl]

The British were on the winning side and did fight hard in north africa, Italy, france, and Germany. All of the major players in the fight with the NAZIs used submachine guns whether they were on the winning side or not. I do not believe that the Japanese forces used a lot submachine guns. They made perhaps 24,000–27,000 of the type 100's.

Yeah, I was just pointing out that the Nazis (Axis) lost the war because they had a 9mm SMG as much as the British (Allies) won it because they had 9mm SMG.

WWII was simple game of attrition. The Allies out produced the Axis.

Al

 

[Spitfire]

I don't have a Evo (wasn't available when I was looking) but I do have a SBR'd TNW Aero Survival Rifle and it is a blast. Easily one of the most fun guns I've every owned so if you want the Evo then I say go for it. its wayyy handier than a 16" AR-15....



Here are the perks of the ASR...

- Uses Glock Mags
- Very Reliable
- Very Durable (Aluminum and Steel construction)
- Convertible to 40/45 and soon to be 22LR and 22 Magnum (22 TCM would be sweet!)
- Quick change barrel
- Easy to mount optics/sights
- Easy to SBR
- Easy to Suppress
- Uses AR furniture
- Sold as a Pistol or Rifle

Even with the Evo available now, I still prefer the versatility/adaptability of the ASR...

 

[enforcership]

Are you talking full auto or semi auto?

I ask because WWII saw a lot of 9mm SMGs used very effectively.

The down side would be feeding such critters.

I opted for this. (in addition to standard ARs in 5.56) I can live with the 16" barrel and semi-auto fire.

Al

Who makes it and what rifle is that? Does it take colt 9mm mags?

 

[drobs]

I'm getting a nice bonus around the holidays, due to financial obamaconomy troubles I had to sell my AR and I have now only 2 9mm pistols. So I'm going to use part of said bonus now that money is back on track for me TO BUY GUNS!!!!!

Okay back story complete. I've pondering the scorpion EVO S1. It's 800$ and I can sbr it with no smithing required. Totaling around 1200 for the entire package. 30 round mags are sub 20$ range, numerous tests on YouTube have proven it reliable and quality. So I guess it's just comes down to 9mm or 5.56! Gasp....
Hear me out first, in south/central Florida the jungle is thick and if it's not your the city. So urban/ close (sub 50 ft) realistic engagement range. 9mm is probably the easiest round to come across that's Self defense worthy and it's a small light package that I can carry more ammo with in less space. I live in the city so I will be bugging out to predetermined location and setup. It is also concealable in a pack. I think for *realistic SHTF stuff or HD it's plenty good.
Any reasons I shouldn't go this route?

I hate to make the comparison, but this is like asking will a Tech 9 replace a AR15, AK, M1A, PTR, FAL, FN SCAR, etc?

The answer is NO.

When it comes down to it - the Scorpion Evo is the modern day version of a Tech 9.

All that being said, I want one (EVO). I think it would be a fun gun to shoot with a Sig Arm Brace. Probably remind me of the Uzi a friend of mine talked me out of a couple years ago.

Would I take one over a semi-auto mag fed rifle in a rifle caliber? NO
I'll stick with superior firepower.

 

[Al Diehl]

Who makes it and what rifle is that? Does it take colt 9mm mags?

I made it.: It's a kit from PSA built onto a DSA lower (Just fwiw. Any lower will work). Yes, it takes standard Colt style magazines.

PSA 9mm Kit

Go here for magazines. Best price and they work:thumb:: ASC Colt style magazines


Al