A TEOTWAWKI type situation isn't likely, no sense in wasting your time thinking about it. If anything a temporary disruption or localized disaster is more likely. If an end of the world type scenario were to occur, gangs will be the least of your problems to worry about provided you even survive...Its not going to be some mad max type of world...

 

Agreed,in fact, I've made the almost identical point here more times than I can recall, but it never gets a very warm reception. But (and again), the fact is that there is simply FAR too much infrastructure and education now for there to be a total collapse of everything,barring something catastrophic like a comet strike, unprecedented global pandemic, or all-out nuclear war.

 

Why would people who own property or have families want to to join a gang to pillage and loot? Gangs are support structures for losers.

 

Have you been to Baltimore lately?

 

"Gangs" and "Militias" are two very different beasts...Thug gangs exist now in most any town that provides Section 8 housing projects..not PC to say but Ive been a cop 25 years and it is most certainly a fact..My current Dept is in a town that passed an ordinance forbidding the establishment of such dwellings...crime is as near zero as any non walled village can obtain ...Militias will prob form just as you suggest with local groups of people who know each other banding together for mutual defense/survival...The Thug Gangs will b a danger to anyone who comes into contact with them

 

I think you could farther divide that into gangs and organized crime.

 

In most TEOTWAWKI scenarios the near term security issues are armed gangs/militia/defense groups roaming streets and countryside. As time passes these gangs will likely merge territories, eventually becoming an occupying army under a warlord. Reestablishment of democracy may come hundred of years down the road, if ever.

Regarding the near term. Where will these initial gangs come from? It seems to me they will not be formed by individual looters hooking up. It is more likely that men who already know each other and meet regularly and have a hierarchy of sorts will be the source. For example, a company of national guardsmen led by their captain. A football team led by a coach. Factory workers and their foreman. Released prisoners and their gang leader. Deputies led by the sheriff. A county maintenance crew, a union meeting, a softball team, a men's church group, a homeowners association... all represent opportunities.

The gangs/militias will form quickly and effectively from places where men gather in common cause. A rural county may have dozens of them, a city, hundreds. In the end every square mile in the state will be claimed as territory by one warlord gang or another.

Any solutions for the common man wanting to live in peace?

Start your own gang TODAY!:thumb:

 

When the lights go out make sure to get in contact with all your neighbors and form a defense force. Ideally in as small a radius as possible, no more than a couple blocks in size. Set up methods of communicating a threat (as simple as some way to make noise for a "call to arms"), rooftop spotters, figure out what kind of weapons you either have or can make. It is possible some of the more firearms-endowed among you might have some spare Mosin Nagants and spamcans for just such occasions. Reinforce the weak points and have a plan for a multi-layered defense.

You don't necessarily have to be completely impenetrable, you just need to be tough enough to hold out long enough for the gang to figure there are easier targets elsewhere. This might be as easy as sniping a few of the ringleaders from windows while they're screaming their demands.

 

This might be as easy as sniping a few of the ringleaders from windows while they're screaming their demands.

I remember a program that had Carlos Hathcock on it say "From far away it was easy to learn who the leaders were. They were usually yelling, waving, or pointing."

 

Honestly I question whether gangs will be able to find enough food and supplies from violent robbery to keep themselves alive. In the city, most people will be totally tapped out within 2 weeks. You can't get blood from a stone.

Sure there will be some warehouses with food but not many, not nearly enough, and without internet access most people wouldn't be able to find out where they were unless they already knew. Likely the workers at those facilities would already be moved in, and guarding it.

Such gangs will probably flame up and burn out during the first winter.

Bandits of this sort managed to survive in ages past because you could sack the city and loot the granaries. With JIT infrastructure there aren't really granaries to loot, at least not in the cities. And the "peasants in the countryside" are very well armed

 

Lol I thinK organized crime will flourish.
The same routes that now smuggle drugs and people in
can just as easily smuggle toilet paper food or whatever else needed for a price.
or they can work in reverse taking goods and people out

 

Lol I thinK organized crime will flourish.
The same routes that now smuggle drugs and people in
can just as easily smuggle toilet paper food or whatever else needed for a price.
or they can work in reverse taking goods and people out

To and from where? Is Mexico going to survive unscathed while the world burns?

 

You think Mexico the only route in?
and that any event will affect the world uniformly?

Wherever there is scarcity for someone there is opprotunity it for others

 

In most TEOTWAWKI scenarios the near term security issues are armed gangs/militia/defense groups roaming streets and countryside. As time passes these gangs will likely merge territories, eventually becoming an occupying army under a warlord. Reestablishment of democracy may come hundred of years down the road, if ever.

Regarding the near term. Where will these initial gangs come from?...

Most likely would be militant 4 H clubs and the Boy Scouts. Though you do not want to meet up with the Senior citizens gang or the Local chess club, them folks are ruthless. Rural folks would have to watch out for the Granges and the Amish.

 

In every pack of wolves an alpha will emerge and turn the losers in to organized death machines. Don't underestimate the power that a single, intelligent individual can bring to mindless thugs. Yes, many gangs will flame out and kill each other but the real danger will be the alphas who turn a nasty gang into a militia without morals. They won't be everywhere but I fully believe they will be some places.

 

Lol I thinK organized crime will flourish.
The same routes that now smuggle drugs and people in
can just as easily smuggle toilet paper food or whatever else needed for a price.
or they can work in reverse taking goods and people out

Most ring leaders of organized crime groups are smart businessmen. They also have substantial muscle at their command. And have a communications and command structure in place. I also think they would adapt and flourish.

 

The gangs already exist. Just because the Event occurs, doesn't mean that today's gang bangers will blow away in the wind. I think that if anything, they will see the Event as an opportunity to become more aggressive.
Those heavily involved in trafficking of any kind may have to change gears, but they already have the background & 'brotherhood'. Just as described in Rawles "Patriots", motorcycle gangs will most probably become roving armies, raping and pillaging what ever they find.
Many street gangs will likely kill themselves off over territory or supplies. I see that as a war of attrition, gangs with the highest numbers will survive to recruit/enslave more members, but they will still exist.

 

Y'all really underestimate criminals.

No hells angeals and like won't become roaming armies
And no city gangs won't wipe themselves out.

Street gangs and the like while everywhere even the 1%
are the lower end of the criminal spectrum.
They still have bosses who tell them what to do
the one factor that unites then all is $$
And the SHTF in many ways is prime time to cash in.

Organized crime moves stuff transnational ly and sells to the 1% and gangs they in turn sell to you

 

A study was done few decades back of the likely demographics, location, and how these groups will ultimately manifest.

The conclusions were shocking, and don't bode well for the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIHF4rVTK4E

Take heed of this information. It may save your life.

 

There will definitely be zombie motorcycle gangs.

 

we already have those...they're called Mongels

 

They come through the hood now looking for things left out in the yards. They come even knocking on the door wanting to buy our older cars for nothing. They will be some of the ones coming through armed and taking what they can. You have to keep a pistol on you right now in case they refuse to leave wanting stuff.

 

Make light of/funny jokes about thug gangs all you want but they are highly organized,maintain strict discipline within their ranks and are little better than animals....once local supplies run out they will spread,make allegiances with other gangs and will be extremely dangerous and predatory to anyone not aligned to them...If you think thats a joking matter then Im happy you are so tough

 

If you think these "people" are a minimal threat, try spending 2 years working Anti-Crime in a Section 8 project...Much less S Philly or South Side Chicago

 

...The gangs/militias will form quickly and effectively from places where men gather in common cause. A rural county may have dozens of them, a city, hundreds. In the end every square mile in the state will be claimed as territory by one warlord gang or another.

Any solutions for the common man wanting to live in peace?

Trade ground. Check out the DIY thread on trading posts. If you provide a service of value to all of 'em (and they'll need a neutral ground), they won't let one of their number take you over.

 

I'm sure protection rackets will be 1st thing to pop up

 

You misinterpret my reason for bringing my original statement to a new page...Im not "attacking" anyone

 

don't live near cities with large "thug" populations

 

There are cities without large thug populations?

 

The gangs I knew were trained in the high school ROTC and then off to the military they went.

 

I smell sock puppet

 

"And after they got their ass shot off and skulked away to recoup, they'd probably turn on their own leaders and fall apart."
Thats one opinion and depends on the leader and the activity/business they engaged in prior to things going south...you have to look at it as they already live in a semi- SHTF environment now...every day...they ARE animals with animal instincts and as someone said they follow an alpha...
I spent 2 long years dealing with all levels in a city w/5 different Section 8 projects, doing anti-crime details,each with its own gang led by its own alpha and each engaged with its own business and connections to larger groups in connecting cities...You can plan on your militia easily dealing with such but to suggest that as an end all solution on a board that has people that may not be as experienced is irresponsible...

 

So beyond the whole movie fantasy of a bunch of evil black guys with sagging pants...

Every single grouping of people, every little militia, every family unit, every group of buddies, every highschool clique who don't have enough supplies to sustain themselves, will become a gang and will become raiders. They may vary on tactics, but they'll need others to provide for them. That comes right down to the grannies down at the senior center and your local bible study group. Grandma might not be kicking down your door, but she may very well be organizing things and her grandkids will be bringing your stuff back to her to cook it for them. It also includes those neighbors you plan on using as your soldiers should you not be able to feed them all. Beyond the stereotypes, these are the facts of life. Anyone not prepared will choose to raid instead of die. I don't care how not-black they are before SHTF.

 

You are 100% correct..the black gang discussion was because they are,in my personal experience,extremely dangerous and some posted they felt they were at worst some sort of rookie wannabes...I did not feel inexperienced visitors to this site should go away with that impression...The others you mention will most probably die at the hands of other like minded "gangs", or live to raid again until they do...But to assume some grouping of sagging pants inner city survivors,who engage in gunfights almost daily(Chicago comes to mind)will roll over and faint at the sight of some good ole boys in camo and toting AR's is wrong and could cause harm to people who are simply looking for advice

 

I'm pretty sure they will come from places where they ignore spellcheck on thread titles. So OP your completely screwed. Get out now, while you have the chance.~jk

Mine are embedded here in town and county. We have several various races and nationalist slants and versions. Even one smaller fat white boy clan. And now a new muslim group as well. The important part is we already know they are hiding in plain sight among us. And we use it, so we can whisper in an ear. Change the course of things. Implant Ideas that are compliant with community goals. And manipulate hostilities to a partial extent to keep the peace.

But we know them and show no aggression or ill will to persons. Only actions.

If it goes down the dumper, most can be conscripted. Promised shares of what they do in the repaired world. Promised their families will get same coverage. We can turn badasses into pseudo-cops. And we have the arms flow to supply it.

Rallying your troops is the easy part.

Preparing them for the estimated 11-13K of hungry bangers that cant read or write, split in half and coming around both sides of the mountain......

I deal with disasters that have finite potentials. Daily. My check is good as gold, and I cut them 40% so it will never end. It's a wise relationship. That's what I do. I open the comms and assume IC. I'm not your regular internet troll. Even though I get loaded and troll some. Or put some real human stuff out there. I try to keep real. Most people who think they are awake...zzz...

But the gang issue....I need what I need. That is a couple more days. I have my own triggers and goals. My own promises to keep, before the ****fest even starts.

I'm 50 feet from the rain forest. Did you watch the show "Alone"? I have many caches. And no limit on my supply lists. I printed and sold those booklets in the back of the free papers before the internet. Had skin in the game for decades before most.

I think dog and I will go, before they come.

 

Gosh- a real life grammar nazi on the web
It's "you're" not "your" ....

 

It will be different everywhere. What will work in one neighborhood/town/city/county will not work in another.

Your ability to survive may simply be based on your ability to not be seen for quite a while.

 

There are a couple other things that often get forgotten when concern rises over gangs:

The type of event will have a huge impact on the formation and cohesiveness of gangs. For example, if it was something that allowed for (or REQUIRED) evacuation, be it an official govt run evac or simply gave people time and reason to take to their own cars, lots of potential "gang followers" will be gone. Remember that lots of these potential gang members are also family members and mama ain't gonna leave her boy behind while she goes inland to safety...

Not to mention, it the event is some kind of illness or plague like thing, well, the potential gang members are also going to be knocked down by that too.

You also need to remember, and I think someone touched on this before, that an army travels (and fights) on its stomach. Look at these numbers:

Let's say a gang does form? Well, they always do so for a reason, but they also only stay together for more powerful reasons. So, let's say the initial gang forms for whatever reason; partying, looting, mayhem, whatever. Once things get hard, dangerous, or uncomfortable...something stronger is needed to keep them together (especially if the group is also made up of loved ones like their families and kids).

So let's say hunger and acquiring food, because most people on these boards turn to that as the Number One reason for large scale gang looting.

Ok, let's say that a gang is conservatively sized. Heck, let's assume they DON'T even have anyone back home; all they have is the people in the mob. So let's say a hungry, willing to do anything, group of twenty people.

That is 20 people, wanting three solid meals a day, JUST FOR THEMSELVES. Now, how many houses are they going to find, EVERY DAY, that can supply three meals a day for 20 people? Not very many. THAT means, in addition to getting food being a full time job, it is difficult to maintain an even distribution of what people are finding (think about it...gang member Bobby is hungry as heck, and barely got anything for breakfast; he finds a bag of Oreos on a break in an hides it rather than telling anyone...ganger Fred found an apple in a fridge and ate it while continuing to search; at 280 lbs of muscle, no one was going to tell him 'no'..) not to mention resentment starts to brew as some are getting while some are not. Not to mention that the longer it goes on, the less food they are finding in each place they loot, the less likely that there is even anything in it (people have left taking everything they can carry), the more chance some other group has already been there (let alone that they might run into such a group), etc. It is being held to the Law of Declining Returns...and that means as returns decline, the strength of the union weakens as well.

Eventually, the strength of the reason the gang is together will start to be weaker than frustration at inequality of shared or position, anger/resentment at leader, infighting, etc. Now, add to that everything my example took out of it...Ganger Fred hasn't eaten in a day, but more importantly neither has his two kids...Ganger Mike is watching his Mom waste away...why did they join this group again???

Gangs, purely from an anthropological point of view, will not hold together for long in the stress of a real life TEOTWAWKI scenario. Even if they are getting enough booze and drugs to distract them from the realities of starvation, they will still be physically weakening, further increasing the amount of effort required for a declining return.

To hold together they need not only a leader, and a very good one, but one that can consistently and constantly provide for their needs. Hard to do...

The reality is, the planned as well as impromptu formed militias and such (renegade military and police units, civilian "bunker buddies", and the like staying together and keeping their families safe) will be the far more dangerous concern, and they are NOT going to be the type out raiding homes and neighborhoods to confiscate your canned goods. They are going to be the ones taking and holding locations, territories, and regions.

 

You really don't know much about crime or gangs.

Why would they say rob your house for oreos.
when they can say go to some farmers place knock on his door and say I know you have alot of machinery and land well make sure you stay ruNing and we'll make sure. NO one "messes" with your place. For say X% of all crops grown.
Now repeat that a few times your living g well
that's how organization ized crime works now. You don take everything you offer a service and you tske a good they refuse your offer you inform them in a less friendly manner how things will be

you could also use the food you now have availabe you cn go recruit from the hungry masses. And expand your operations into different venues