He is going to need to get some, this good man who would never steal or rob anyone...is going to be sitting on a 2 week old empty stomach, and looking at his wifes teary eyes, begging him to go find some food before his three beautiful kids die.

When will his morals shift. When will his priorities and loyalties shift? Is not being a theif, more important to this guy than literally watching his children starve to death...begging him to save them.

Now pretend you're that guy. What are you going to do?

I'm going to go and hunt some food.

 

I live in Texas, how long do you think food to hunt is going to last when thats the only option? There is a reason we have rules for hunting now, so that the amount of hunters we have wont kill all the animals. What do you think is going to happen when SHTF and those rules go out the window.

This isn't the 1800's anymore. When SHTF, edible wildlife will probably be hunted, cleared and wiped out in months. And depending on the disaster, wildlife might become radiated. The, "ah...I'll just go do this or go do that" attitude, is what is going to turn a lot of unprepared "good guys", into desperate "bad guys".

 

Cobo,
Gotta agree with ***** on the hunting in Texas, we've most of the wild hogs in the US in Texas, throw in jack rabbits, javelina, snakes, possums, 'dillos, etc and yeah, we as a state could survive on game meats if we could get them back to the cities for people to eat.. people wandering out into the hill country are not gonna have a good time trying to hunt on owned property though.

We've plenty of head of cattle, sheep, even llamas here too, but we aren't gonna be slaughtering them and bringing the meats back to civilization if there is no transportation.. best guess is gonna be cattle drives for those that are bright enough to make them work.

Now, to the OP:

You cannot eat a lawn and be healthy (though if you dig up the insects you might be able to pull it off). But I would barter and trade and yes, even WORK for my family's health and well being. Being a 'good guy' with a gun doesn't mean you have to 'go bad' to make your family survive. If nothing else become local constabulary and stop the 'supposed bad guys' from doing bad things. Accept a salary in beans and rice if you gotta. If they are too lazy to to stock up on more than just ammo now, that precludes them from being a white hat, even now.

cheers

 

It'd be hard to find work PSHTF though, I stocked up on a years worth of food for my family. But I sure as hell wont tell anyone that when food is more valuable then gold and there aren't anymore laws. You'd have to find someone who stocked up to feed a small community to support his and your family, also everyone else who needs work; food, which is quite a bit of "good guys"

 

For me, I don't think I will become the evil bad man running around because I know how to live off the land, build a shelter and survive. However, if you are saying when "they" will become the evil bad person is when they start to starve and will do anything for food. City slickers will be doing a lot of that.

Now, the question is how do we help those who don't have the internet or have books to learn about survival get to learn about survival in time? Have survival classes where ever you are to teach how to get water and food, grow food in cans or jars and help those help themselves. However, what is the price to ask? Ten bucks or 50 bucks? depends on who you want to reach and teach. The poor can't afford much, but they will be willing to learn if they are determined to survive.

No question in my mind that some will resort to evil deeds to survive, but they will be having a hard time doing it with 150 million gun owners in America out there. Looks bad for some and really bad for others.
Maybe some rich dude will send out a mass mailer on survival to some areas.

 

The less people that survive, the further the resources will stretch. Just puttin' it out there. :thumb:

 

I think it's a good idea for folks to get aquainted with their "dark side" (it was fine for anniken skywalker right?). Knowledge of oneself is the path to enlightenment (or so I hear)

seriously tho, if you know how you will really react when in a tough situation then you can plan accordingly rather than making assumptions based on how your logic NOW, when you are warm, fed, happy and safe. trust me when I tell you it's a humbling experience.

 

It's all an issue of consensus, isn't it??

I mean, once all the rest of the kids gang up on you in the second grade and
start throwing rocks at you, you're the "Bad Guy" from then on, right?

But maybe I'm a just don't get all that there Sociology stuff all that well...

 

Sociology would teach you that the "Bad Guy" is relative. Which was the point of my thread. True SHTF will not be like the movies, the bad guys will not be bikers in hockey masks...they will be desperate, everyday people struggling to survive. Which makes it sadder.

 

I usually don't say anything nowadays when somebody I know (not online) says the ol, "I can hunt and fish"....

I always subtract their vehicles from my imagination when I think about them surviving by hunting and fishing as well as subtracting the imaginary vehicles of everybody else who'll be out their pounding the brush for deer, elk and fish in these parts roun' hya.

And I usually imagine, as usual when talking to such people, them dead.

Now, moving on... so we have this pesky little stigma ingrained in our heads don't we now?

That inconvenient little moral tug having to do with cannibalism. Fine then, for those of you who have that challenge ahead, might I suggest the ol' stigma eraser.

If a dog or pig eats that pesky wanna-be-raider and you then eat the dog or pig, you are not a cannibal. See how easy that is?

For some people I believe, as bad as it sounds to imagine in this present world, the aforementioned stigma will grow to be a spice.

On this very site shortly after I signed up there was a poll where about a third of the responders claimed they would be a raider NOW. The way my mental math works, the two thirds who think they're all moral and ethical now...probably had a full tummy and most really do not have all their things in order....NOW.

Which leads me to believe on this site the real numbers are over half the people being raiders and as far as the rest of the totally not prepared world, I'd say the real numbers of raiders to non would be....the majority.

So to my way of thinking that's a whole hell of a lot of dogfood at least. Probably a good way to get some new Nikes as well when those city fools come a be-boppin out hya to the country.

 

The sad truth is that everyone here and everyone that reads this will become the "bad guy" when they or their wife and kids are starving. Those of you that believe your morals are too high to plunder, steal and yes, even kill for food when you have none are only kidding yourselves. Oh, I would never do that.....BS!

 

Bingo! I'll be a "good" guy until I have to be bad, preps will run out eventually and you will be forced to make a decision. Watch those you love starve and slowly die or...

 

If only 35% of the American people own guns now, and only 20% of those know how to shoot, (1) How will they deplete wild game, (2) How will they ever be any kind of real threat except to themselves?

 

There is limited hunting grounds, which means you are going to be hunting in the same area as these 20% who don't know how to shoot and that makes you feel better? You're going to have to get worried about getting shot, or them scaring your game off most importantly, but eventually the animals are going to migrate to a tipping corner.

They are not adapted for escaping our weapons...I don't care how bad the shooters are, the bad shooters are going to be a danger to us more than anything...but that doesn't mean as the animals get driven into smaller areas they won't eventually become fish in a barrel, even for the idiots. Not to mention the people who don't know how to shoot, who start learning. I mean, there are so many variables that make this unrealistic that its hard to even keep up.

2 guys can fish in a pond for their whole life, 5000 can't, I don't care how ****ty some of them are.

 

@SamboRoberts I just seen that you live in Australia...we might as well be talking about two different planets. There will be completely different scenarios I assume. We are completely different levels of population and available resources.

 

We are completely different levels of population and available resources.

I did point that out to you earlier.

 

Anyone that knows me would tell you that I try to be a good guy, and do the right thing. But I also understand that we all contain the ability to do wrong, and to be the "bad guy". If the SHTF none of us will have a white or black morality, we will all be grey guys. We will do what survivalists do, and we will survive, its basic human nature. The more we each prep, the more likely we will not have to resort to caving into our nature and resorting to the negative to survive.

 

Yup, exactly my point.

 

Hell, I didn't even know someone created a thread about animals not being able to support us.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=149072

And this guy made a great point,

back in the Great Depression. Game species were wiped out in many states in just a year or two. Our population is much higher today than it was back then. Game population is higher also, but there is less land to support them now also.

We also have to consider wastefullness today. Back in the Depression, a hunter might take a few deer to feed his family throughout the year. The meat was preserved for use later. Today, so few people lack the skill to preserve anything, that if they kill an animal larger than they can eat in a short time, the rest will go to waste. And they'll be back out killing another one a day or two later.

Then comes the danger of hunting them in the first place. Few folks today have any hunting skills. If there's a major crisis and people "head to the hills", it's likely that a bunch of them are not going to hesistate to kill someone else to take what they have, whether food in their pack, or the deer they just shot.

 

i think if SHTF the people that didnt leave to a familys house in the country or a small town would kill eachother off. alot of city people dont know how to hunt and dont know how to clean a animal. also they are gonna be looking for that easy meal, like looting and breakins ect. after that then there will be hungry desperate gangs whitch move to the smaller towns
well at least thats how i think it will go down, 2-3 days for panic to start 1-2 weeks for mass violence breaks out(depending on the situation) 1 month befor they move to the smaller towns, but like i said that what i THINK

 

This argument comes up all the time and the SAME things fail to be taken into account.

1) A LOT of people, unprepared, will die of one thing or another in those first early days and weeks after SHTF. They will make crucial mistakes in food, water, hygiene, general safety and the like and die. They will starve, dehydrate, or mess with the wrong people.

2) A LOT of people will head for the hills. Either they will be heading somewhere (like to a relatives house or such in a neighboring town) or they will believe what the media suggests is the right thing to do and "get out of town". These people will, for the most part, be unprepared for the trek, under supplied, and will find many of their number joining those who died in (1).

3) Animals are not dumb. Sure, there will be massive kill offs, but as animals learn that certain areas are no longer safe, they will avoid them.

4) We, as preppers, can make a difference in these events. Educate your neighbors and friends so they do not join these masses. Prepare supplies to be able to help your neighbors (at least) in such an event...even if you just set aside basics and get them to the people in need through an anonymous drop off at night.


Yes bad people will come out of these events, but we need not be some of them.

 

Part of my preps are specifically for dealing with people that didn't prepare for themselves.

If dealing harshly with them is considered being the bad guy then so be it.

 

I will kill to protect. I will not murder for food.

 

But will you kill for food if it will protect? It's a fine line, but there's a difference.

 

ObamaCide got upheld by the SCrOTUmS, and Eric Holder isn't getting prosecuted..............that's the only thing I can figure led to this round of raider threads.

 

In a true SHTF situation, I find it funny that some say work for your keep. Work where, McDonald's? Right, millions of people starving and you want me to "work". Give me a break! I'm sure there will be millions of jobs just waiting to be filled.......

Or plant a garden......another joke in the short term before most have died off. How long does it take most crops to mature.....90 days? Let's say you grow tomatoes or whatever and there are millions of people who haven't done any prepping and they are starving, what happens? Right, they raid your garden, maybe by the hundreds. Bottom line, unless you are going to shoot everyone, those hoards of starving people are going to take your garden by storm.

And, you raise livestock? OK, how long you think Bessie the cow is going to last when people are starving? You won't have a chicken left.

But, maybe you can fish and hunt for food? You and a million others. And I can just see you and a multitude of others lined up at the river/lake and when you finally catch a big ole catfish, you will be mobbed. You'll have to shoot your way out.

It won't be easy in a true SHTF scenerio that last for months or even years. In a few months many will die off for a variety of reasons and the hard preppers and looters may be the only ones surviving. Once, months or a year or two into a SHTF world, then and only then would a garden make sense. Livestock will be almost non-existent.

If you think it will be a cakewalk, then you are only fooling yourself. Starving people armed with guns will be a real menace and if they even think you have a box of crackers, you're toast. Refuse your neighbors food or water and if they know you have a little put up, they will rat you out in a heartbeat!

No, I don't have the answer, but I do have an opinion and you just read it. I do not believe I am wrong, but I certainly hope so.

 

Exactly, thanks for sharing.

 

I will do what I deem necessary to protect and feed my loved ones. Now what it is that I will deem necessary I can't say while things are status quo.

 

My thought is that the animal population could take some serious losses depending upon the duration of time. I mean if it only takes a few months to get power back up, and things running again, then I doubt that the population will see a decrease that it can't recover from in future years. However if we have a complete and prolonged scenario, then I could see the population taking a serious drop, and if they weren't given a chance to repopulate, It would make since that some animals go extinct.

Sure there is the argument that some people have never been hunting and don't have the skills. I am one of those people, though I plan to go hunting in October for my first time. Anyway, should the SHFT I am not an experienced hunter. Do you think that would stop me from trying to bring home dinner? Do you think that I would only go after large male deer? Nope, if I can bring back food for my family I will, and so would any of you. Here is where the problem lays, there are restrictions on hunting to insure that the species keep yielding future generations. In a SHTF scenario, all beats are off. On top of that most people who don't know how to hunt, don't know how to preserve meat either. Which means that more meat will go to waste, and those same people will be hunting much more often. OR they may feed more people so that the meat does not go bad, and take turns hunting, etc.

 

When do you become the bad guy?

You become the "bad guy" to others when the unprepared find out you have supplies and won't share "for the common good".

They become the "bad guys" to you when they find out you have supplies and won't share "for the common good" and they decide to "liberate" your supplies for the common good.

Best advice, stay away from other people. They all are potential dangers to you and yours. Leave them in peace to work out their own problems and make sure nobody creates any new problems for you.

 

I agree with this. This is why it's important not to leave your house dressed like Rambo, nor allow anybody into your home to see your water purifier and goodies. I'll even be putting a sign on my door saying "No food or water! Please Help!" Of course, if somebody does offer to help me, i'll politely refuse, and then give them a little something to share with somebody else. That much I'll do, for the cause.

 

This is nothing but yet another raider thread. I will not murder others to take their stuff. There are things worse than death. To me, part of preparing is also spiritual preparations. That is preparing to live, but also realizing that you may not, and preparing for that possibility also.

 

I wouldn't kill someone for just to steal others possession, however if someone was a threat and I had to neutralize them, I would take anything I could use. Is it still stealing yup, but I would rather have the ability to offer a family in need some extra items. Or to provide a gun and ammo to someone rather then leave it on a body and chance having a possible hostile pick it up.

Like I said, there is no good or bad, just grey guys.

 

Youre a bad guy if you dont do the unthinkable to feed your children , and youre a bad guy if you do .
Thats why I believe there is no black and whit in these situations .
On a lighter note , I seem to become the bad guy at least one a month , usually for 4 to 7 days , at least as far as my wifes concerned .

 

"When do you become the bad guy?"

When there's a breakdown of law and law enforcement, and you take advantage of its absence.

 

Howscum nobody wanted to focus on what the definition of "Bad" is?

oh, never mind

 

You know hunting wild game is only one source of food. Learn to garden, you would be shocked at how much food you can grow in a 10 x 20 garden. I grow more than I can freeze or pressure can and have to give some away. In my climate zone I can grow something year round.

If it is a burnt Earth problem, not a problem all you need is soil, nitrogen, and light. I can grow that food in a room in my house with a western or eastern facing window. 6 hours of light and we are good.

If you know how to grow you won't starve and you can avoid killing over food. It does not take 5, 10 or 20 acres to feed a family of 4. 10 x 20 feet, well fed.

Seems like a lot of this is kill over food. Store enough food to get you by for 3 months, its not hard, its not expensive. If TSHTF day after that start you seedlings get them transplanted into pots and start growing in 3 months you will have food. In the mean time complain to everyone how hungry you are and how difficult it is. In three months those you want to help you will, those you don't will die or move on. Sad but true.

If you don't advertise you have something others will want, you are less of a target. OPSEC, Situational Awareness, Training. Live, Learn, Repeat and you will not have to turn into something you don't want to be.