Captain O bought them all to save for investment value and to post cool pictures in ten years when the new kids ask, "what was that?"

A thread to discuss failed cartridges, 9mm Federal, .45 GAP, .30 Super Carry, etc.

 

you can add 35 Remington which is still occasionally available but I wonder for how long. I am guessing at some point you can also add the 360 buckhammer

 

It was a nifty idea that S&W killed by not putting it into duty sized pistols, and not putting it in REALLY higher capacity carry guns.

They made a smaller bullet that was ALMOST as good as a 9mm, but then only offered it in lower capacity guns. Utterly clueless.

Every gun they had was matched by a Sig P365 version, but the Sig came with the same capacity of real 9 mm.
If they had released a duty gun with 20-24 rounds, along with a double stack the same size as a P365 but with 2-4 more rounds in the same size gun, they'd have had a shot.

you can add 35 Remington which is still occasionally available but I wonder for how long.

35 Remington wasn't a failed round, it was absolutely in play for many decades.

It just went out of favor and became obsolescent in the last decade, because.... .308, and the death of most lever guns.

 

It was a nifty idea that S&W killed by not putting it into duty sized pistols, and not putting it in REALLY higher capacity carry guns.

They made a smaller bullet that was ALMOST as good as a 9mm, but then only offered it in lower capacity guns. Utterly clueless.

Every gun they had was matched by a Sig P365 version, but the Sig came with the same capacity of real 9 mm.
If they had released a duty gun with 20-24 rounds, along with a double stack the same size as a P365 but with 2-4 more rounds in the same size gun, they'd have had a shot.




35 Remington wasn't a failed round, it was absolutely in play for many decades.

It just went out of favor and became obsolescent in the last decade, because.... .308, and the death of most lever guns.

Absolutely correct on them putting it in the wrong guns, it could have been a strong contender for the 5.7's position as the preeminent high capacity/low recoil caliber. It was basically a 327 Federal for semiautos.

Where I think it REALLY would have shined though, is in a PDW platform. A braced, large format pistol with a 6" barrel chambered in 30SC would have been a nice home and vehicle defense option.

 

The 35 Remington was extremely popular for many years like ajole said. There were two used in the killing of Bonnie and Clyde. The biggest downfall of the 35 Rem was a lack of guns. When it came out in the early 20th century there were several guns chambered in the round but it finally ended up only being chambered in the Marlin lever action. And now those only come in the used variety. But early on there was the Marlin lever, the Remington model 8 and later model 81 and a Remington pump action and most likely some I am forgetting. I think there was at least one bolt action. And the TC Contender offered barrels for the round. I wish I hadn't of sold the one I had.

The 360 Buck Hammer may stand a chance if the straight wall case states keep the straight wall rule and if more guns are offered in the round. So far only Henry offers guns and Rossi says they are going to offer them but I have seen any or read any reports on them. If I could chose between the 360BH and the 30-30 I would pick the 30-30. But if I were in a straight wall state that didn't allow the 30 WCF I would be all over the 360BH.

35 Remington wasn't a failed round, it was absolutely in play for many decades.

It just went out of favor and became obsolescent in the last decade, because.... .308, and the death of most lever guns.

I was responding to a joke comment so don’t take my response too seriously. I personally like the 35 Remington and as far as I know, I’m the only guy I know who still buys the cartridges for an old Marlin

 

My mom’s husband has an old Marlin in 35 Rem. It’s absolutely clean, looks new. I bought his old Winchester 94 off of him, it looked rough, but cleaned up ok. Not a show piece, but it puts 30-30 bullets where you point it.

 

I wouldn’t write off 30 SC just yet. The round came at a bad time when there were back orders in guns and ammo. The round makes a lot of sense , so there is a good chance it will eventually take market share. Federal just needs a few guns that make sense in it. A sig p365 , a Glock , and a 1911/2011. Also somebody should make a PDW in the cartridge.
Why they didn’t get ruger or PSA involved is beyond me.

look at how long it took 5.7 to catch on.

 

I’m a big fan of the 5.7. I thought it was a gimmick also until I built one of the PSA rock pistols last year. It’s the real deal compared against 22 LR or 22 magnum. Felt recoil is more like 22 LR but supposedly the ballistics are closer to 22 magnum, although I think they are better out of a pistol, at least. I think they are supposed to be equivalent out of a rifle. It’s Accurate and 23 rounds in a pistol magazine is hard to beat. I will say it is not a carry piece for me because it is 22 caliber essentially but it is extremely fun to shoot, ammo is still way overpriced for it in my opinion.

 

S&W still lists the shield plus in the caliber but ya, kinda didn't really take off.
3 more rounds than the same gun in 9mm.
100 grain hst should do alright in 32.
Maybe bad market timing as was said.

I've never seen a 30SC let alone shot one.
A lot of the tiny guns would be nicer shooting if they were in 32 instead of 9 or 380 but the SC has a lot higher pressure than either of those so maybe not much of a benefit?

 

I see it on the shelf at the local Sportsman’s Warehouse. No guns are currently on the CA list of handguns authorized for peasants that I’m aware of. I have yet to meet anyone who has ever shot one.

I was somewhat intrigued by a 32acp Mag when they introduced it. But not enough to have bought one with very little market support. Guess I’ll just have to make do with my 100 year old 9mm and 45acp.

 

Just an attempt to create another revenue stream....

 

IMO it's much like so many other new
and improved hunting and defensive
rounds brought to market.
It's an answer to a question that was
already answered years ago.
Most firearms duties can be carried
out with rounds that were brought out
before I was born or when I was small.
Some of the firearms weren't satisfactory
for some, so that evolved as time passed.
There's not a real dire need for much
of anything new, mostly it's people's wants. All of my adult life I've known people who buy the newest hunting bow and firearms every year when whatever
they had years before was perfectly
serviceable and effective. But, if that's
what they want to do, I don't have a
problem with that.

 

I worked for Ruger's engineering dept. in the 1980s and am very familiar with the drivers for their production decisions. Having only very limited production and distribution of the ammunition, mostly from only one source, and difficulty even getting enough proof rounds and function ammo to support production is an absolute non-starter.

In the 1980s the break-even point for design, tooling try outs, marketing and distribution for a new model was $1million in retail sales. This applies to an entirely new design. Not simply a variation which could be produced modifying and mixing existing parts and tooling.

 

I just had to buy a .S&W .30SC when it was offered for under 300.00

So at that time I ordered the ammo to stock up on, knowing full well it was not going to be a gun that I carry most often.

The price was right and the gun/ammo perform well enough for me to see it as viable.

I do not expect others to see it my way , but that is why we have SO MANY choices & options.

It does make a better choice for summer wear as it hides as easy as most .380's.

 

At that price point, assuming ammo is available and not crazy expensive, it makes some sense.

But if you already have a 9 mm or a .380 that carries essentially the same number of rounds, in close to the same size package...even that price isn't going to tempt most folks; especially when the big selling point was "ALMOST as good as a 9 mm, but smaller"....and then the guns aren't really smaller, nor do they carry "more" ammo in most cases.

 

Does anyone here own or shoot the 30 Super Carry?

It should be why the super carry?

Its performance is around that of a 9mm, often just slightly less; it is a smaller, round, lighter bullet with higher velocity. Its only advantage is a smaller diameter, so you can carry 2-3 more rounds in a magazine.

 

No the title is just the way I wanted it. I already knew the "Why". The "Why" was already asked when the round came out. I just wanted to see if anyone had of bought in to the hype and I guess only one poster so far has.

It was bad timing when it came out because common ammo was hard to find on the shelf. Most felt Federal should have been making more common ammo instead of releasing a whole new round that didn't really do anything better than the already common rounds. It held a couple of extra rounds. Big deal. If you haven't fixed the problem with 10-15 rounds what good is 2-3 more rounds going to do you?

 

Could this disappearance just be the "invisible hand of the marketplace" in play?

 

I've got no experience with .30 SC, but I think it's an interesting cartridge. My guess as to why it didn't take off is because the lack of firearm options and supply issues. Where I was at, it seemed that they never had both guns and ammo for sale. They were always out of one or the other.

 

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not that I've looked very hard, but I don't think I've ever seen a 30sc pistol in person.

 

Same thing that will happen to the new 7mm backdoor or whatever it's called.

 

No.

7mm Backcountry isn't just another cartridge. It's a 3000 fps out of a 20" barrel 7mm. I may replace my beloved Elk killing 7 mag with one.

The amount of rifles already chambered for it would be a clue.

 

The 7mm BC is intriguing to me and could get me to spend $ on a quality long action. The 6.8 Western has my attention because I only need a barrel.

7mm STW is a wildcat I'm done with wildcats.

 

I just went to Academy and while there looked to see if they had any 30SC ammo in stock. If they had it I didn't see any. No 410 either. They did have a good stock of Hornaday bullets and even primers including small pistol primers. Only $8.99 per 100. After tax that will be $9.80. When i started reloading in 1982 primers for all types were $10 per 1,000. Crazy.

The thread on a 22 for SD got me wanting a small 22 to carry. They had a Ruger LCP II in .22 for $349. I am thinking. It was for all intents the same size as my Kel-Tec p32 in 32acp. So I well dwell on it for a bit. And maybe come to my senses.

 

I have had a phoenix arms 22 for a long time and it is the same size as my LCP 380. Never had any issues with it. They have stayed within the $100 range for the last 20 years or so. Made in Canada I believe. Now that I am remembering it, I think there were two safeties on it and I had to disassemble it and remove one, since I didn’t like the redundancy but it was a super easy job. It was either a cut or file a little piece of metal, but didn’t take more than a minute or two. To let you know how little that impacted the use of the gun, I did that probably 15 years ago and forgot about it until right now.

I noticed that about the primers the last time I was at Sportsmans warehouse and they had thousands in stock, but definitely more expensive than they used to be. I think I already have more than I will ever need but it’s interesting just to see how the prices change on the shelf.

 

And here I thought & read this was a post about who carries the .30SC.
Guess this should be the end of this thread !.

 

Since I think you were about it, you're probably right.

Can't have a gun thread veer off target at all, now can we?

 

It now swims with the fishes. And 45 GAP.

🐟🐟🐟

 

Just bought a new holster for my .30SC so guess in mnsho = it aint dead.
Did buy a decent supply of ball & defensive ammo [ GDHP ] so if its dead, I will be GTG.

 

I was ordering breakfast in a new Bojangles when the young guy asked what I was carrying. I told him 9mm. He said he had bought a Smith in 30 Super Carry last year. I asked how does it shoot compared to a 9mm. He hadn't shot it yet due to the scarcity of 30SC FMJ and the good stuff was too expensive to practice with.

 

GrabaGun is selling a Shield Plus Optics ready Super Carry for $269 right now.

S&W SC

 

That's a heck of a deal. Almost tempted. But then I went looking for brass. Seems if you don't already have it, you may not be able to get it.

 

Wow, I believe there are lots of guys like that who carry but don’t train regularly.

 

Glad to see this old thread being revived. I like 32 caliber guns. I would have liked the SC better if it had of came in a gun similar to my Walther PP with a single stack magazine. 8-9 rounds should be enough to see you through a bad encounter.

They hit the market at the wrong time with this round. They released it during an ammo shortage when they should have been playing Catch Up on the rounds everyone was already looking for. And now with a slump in gun sales this wouldn't be a good time either. The S&W posted above for $269 is a killer deal. A better deal would have been the gun and 250 rounds of ammo for $369. Without ammo or gun support a new round doesn't have a chance.

Look at the 327 Federal. A good idea but the guns were either snubbies for SD or something like the Ruger single six with 6-7.5" barrel. There were a fer SP-101s with 4" barrels but all the ammo I saw came in 20-25 round boxes for a dollar plus a round. They never offered a field or hunting use round in 50 count boxes that I saw. Not every gun use is for SD. Some people like a round like that for farm use or field carry. The same people would of liked to of had a good lead bullet load with a start speed of 900fps or so and be a pleasant shooting round. But that ship has already sailed and the interest is no longer there.

Now with so many small 9mm guns on the shelves and cheap 9mm ammo there is no real reason to buy in to the very similar 30SC. For what? Two extra rounds?

 

Glad to see this old thread being revived. I like 32 caliber guns. I would have liked the SC better if it had of came in a gun similar to my Walther PP with a single stack magazine. 8-9 rounds should be enough to see you through a bad encounter.

I always thought the "best" thing would have been a 20+ round duty sized gun, with a super thin and small 10 round SD gun being the second option. Or, a Micro 9 with a flush fitting 13+1, so they could win on the capacity war.

The 20 round 9 mm duty and race guns by the other brands mostly came out AFTER the SC was introduced.
Meanwhile, the Micro 9 double stacks had 9-10 rounds covered in a thin light gun, so being thinner and/or "more" would have been the best way to compete.

Instead, they kind of offered "the same", and then as you say, the ammo price and availability was not conducive to real life use.

 

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right now that's all that's available on target sports