Hey everyone, i had a question i figured someone might have some info on and I'd appreciate a hand. See i live out in the country here in the great plains, lots of coyote/wolf lions and the occasional bear! I traded a bolt action i had for a SKS my coworker had. Would this scare of or drop a predator like my bolt? And a problem i noticed was it was converted to take an ak mag, should have noticed that before hand. Is that reliable or am i going to have to choke another lion? I know it's long but I'd appreciate any input!
Nuada
Predators can't tell the difference between a bolt or an SKS.
It is the cartridge not the action. Go and shoot your new rifle to see if it is reliable.
I my neck of the woods my camp rifle is an old Winchester 94 in 30/30 win. It is very dense
bush, so close in shots are the norm.
It is the cartridge not the action. Go and shoot your new rifle to see if it is reliable.
I my neck of the woods my camp rifle is an old Winchester 94 in 30/30 win. It is very dense
bush, so close in shots are the norm.
In a good rifle, the 7mm Re Mag would easily out perform the 7.62 x 39mm of the SKS.
Good thing about the situation is that you can reverse the choice,
Good thing about the situation is that you can reverse the choice,
Knowing that I efficiently killed one predator with a 7mm Rem Mag while the rest of the pack are gnawing on me is no great comfort. Its an apples and oranges comparison - your title reads utility camp rifle: SKS is excellent for that. Keep it fed with SP ammo, and you won't have to choke another mountain lion again. Had the title read "long range big game rifle," then get your 7mm Rem Mag back.
The SKS will take out a predator no problem. don't worry about that.
Like was said above, I would take the rifle out and throw rounds down range to make sure it functions correctly. I prefer my SKS' to have the origional mags on them, not the AK conversions or duckbills. I always see jams from those (my personal experience)
The SKS however is a very reliable piece. And as you stated, Ammo is extremely cheap. For predators, the 7.62 round is more than enough to take it down.
Like was said above, I would take the rifle out and throw rounds down range to make sure it functions correctly. I prefer my SKS' to have the origional mags on them, not the AK conversions or duckbills. I always see jams from those (my personal experience)
The SKS however is a very reliable piece. And as you stated, Ammo is extremely cheap. For predators, the 7.62 round is more than enough to take it down.
If defense against animals is genuinely your concern, get bear spray. Neither bears, or any other animal for that matter, will be able to attack you with a face full of that caustic junk. Then keep a hunting rifle which is more suited to the things that you intend to hunt.
Forget Elmer Fudd
The SKS is a much better choice than a bolt gun. Predators, both two legged and 4 legged can be dealt with efficiently with the 7.62x39mm round. Anything the 30/30 can do, the 7.62x39 can do better. You were right to sell the 7mm Mag and you should probably sell the .243 and get an AK next or a suppressed 22 LR for small game.
I disagree on running soft points though, as penetration rules the day and always has. Gun writers and ammunition companies may disagree, but African hunters do not, as they mostly run solids when they hunt big game and you should too. Many elephants have been quickly killed with full auto AK fire by poachers. Grizzly Bears are not Godzilla, 10 rounds of just about anything (except 22lr) are going to do them in. The trick is to use enough gun, so they don't kill you too.
This brings us to another important point; in a survival situation, you need to forget about being "Elmer Fudd"; Hunting Licenses, Tags and "Hunter Ethics" need to go out the window. Killing prey needs to be done quickly and efficiently. In Alaska, the Inuit hunt Caribou with Mini-14's and blast and entire magazine into the herd and skin/eat every animal that falls dead. They don't care about how many they wound or if animals suffer needlessly.It's about being quick, efficient and survival. .223 is cheap and available.
Big heavy guns of limited fire power (yes sniper rifles too) have limited utility in a survival situation. You need to have a gun that can do it all, that can be carried all day. Optics can be good, if they are durable, in that they will extend the normal combat engagement distance of 250 yards, to 400 or so, giving you an advantage in hunting and defensive actions.
The SKS is a much better choice than a bolt gun. Predators, both two legged and 4 legged can be dealt with efficiently with the 7.62x39mm round. Anything the 30/30 can do, the 7.62x39 can do better. You were right to sell the 7mm Mag and you should probably sell the .243 and get an AK next or a suppressed 22 LR for small game.
I disagree on running soft points though, as penetration rules the day and always has. Gun writers and ammunition companies may disagree, but African hunters do not, as they mostly run solids when they hunt big game and you should too. Many elephants have been quickly killed with full auto AK fire by poachers. Grizzly Bears are not Godzilla, 10 rounds of just about anything (except 22lr) are going to do them in. The trick is to use enough gun, so they don't kill you too.
This brings us to another important point; in a survival situation, you need to forget about being "Elmer Fudd"; Hunting Licenses, Tags and "Hunter Ethics" need to go out the window. Killing prey needs to be done quickly and efficiently. In Alaska, the Inuit hunt Caribou with Mini-14's and blast and entire magazine into the herd and skin/eat every animal that falls dead. They don't care about how many they wound or if animals suffer needlessly.It's about being quick, efficient and survival. .223 is cheap and available.
Big heavy guns of limited fire power (yes sniper rifles too) have limited utility in a survival situation. You need to have a gun that can do it all, that can be carried all day. Optics can be good, if they are durable, in that they will extend the normal combat engagement distance of 250 yards, to 400 or so, giving you an advantage in hunting and defensive actions.
It'll kill everything you listed easily with the exception of the bear. Not that it couldn't kill it, but the chance of just wounding it is greater...
Being modified is probably to your advantage because the OEM ones can be a real pain in the butt. Why wouldn't you opt for the internal? 10 rounds is plenty...
Being modified is probably to your advantage because the OEM ones can be a real pain in the butt. Why wouldn't you opt for the internal? 10 rounds is plenty...
I disagree with just about everything Mauser said above. 
Anything the .30-30 can do, the 7.62x39 can do better?
Not hardly.
The average .30-30 will be more accurate than the average SKS, and the SKS can't fire the heavier bullet weights up to the 170s for more efficient performance on larger animals.
The African penetration analogy is false.
That involves BIG animals and BIG bullets, where max penetration is needed.
On smaller game, a solid will tend to pass straight through, doing less immediate damage than a good expanding HP or SP bullet.
In Africa, solids are not the only bullet used. Plains game from zebra on down are taken with expanding rifle bullets, as indicated. No need whatever to use a .458 Mag (or heavier) with solids on springbok.
And the SKS with solids is not used or advocated by professional hunters or their clients.
Here in the US, solids are beneficial for the bigger bears (NOT WITH AN SKS) in the bigger calibers, but a properly designed & constructed heavy expanding bullet that holds together works just fine, in the right calibers.
Using a 7.62x39 solid on a coyote or cougar would be much less efficient than using an expanding hollow or soft point.
In remote and primitive Alaska, people do not do a spray & pray without caring how many animals are only injured.
Everything in Alaska has to be either trucked in long haul, or flown in to most of the state.
Ammunition is expensive. It is not wasted. It is aimed fire, with intent to hit an individual animal.
You're only right on the word "efficient", and blowing off a full mag randomly into a caribou herd is not efficient. It's expensive, and counterproductive, not to mention going totally against most "native" cultural taboos against "wasting" animals.
Far from the norm, if it happens here & there it's the fringe-element local equivalent of "Here, hold my beer & watch this..."
Denis
Anything the .30-30 can do, the 7.62x39 can do better?
Not hardly.
The average .30-30 will be more accurate than the average SKS, and the SKS can't fire the heavier bullet weights up to the 170s for more efficient performance on larger animals.
The African penetration analogy is false.
That involves BIG animals and BIG bullets, where max penetration is needed.
On smaller game, a solid will tend to pass straight through, doing less immediate damage than a good expanding HP or SP bullet.
In Africa, solids are not the only bullet used. Plains game from zebra on down are taken with expanding rifle bullets, as indicated. No need whatever to use a .458 Mag (or heavier) with solids on springbok.
And the SKS with solids is not used or advocated by professional hunters or their clients.
Here in the US, solids are beneficial for the bigger bears (NOT WITH AN SKS) in the bigger calibers, but a properly designed & constructed heavy expanding bullet that holds together works just fine, in the right calibers.
Using a 7.62x39 solid on a coyote or cougar would be much less efficient than using an expanding hollow or soft point.
In remote and primitive Alaska, people do not do a spray & pray without caring how many animals are only injured.
Everything in Alaska has to be either trucked in long haul, or flown in to most of the state.
Ammunition is expensive. It is not wasted. It is aimed fire, with intent to hit an individual animal.
You're only right on the word "efficient", and blowing off a full mag randomly into a caribou herd is not efficient. It's expensive, and counterproductive, not to mention going totally against most "native" cultural taboos against "wasting" animals.
Far from the norm, if it happens here & there it's the fringe-element local equivalent of "Here, hold my beer & watch this..."
Denis
Yes, yes it can. You can also drop a grizzly with a 22LR if you get the shot placement between the eye and into the brain but I would not advise doing it unless you have no other choice.
Yes, a bear can fall from a tiny caliber but it is not the recommended course of action because while they can, odds are it will not.
There is also a difference between hunting a bear where you are allowed time to set up a fatal kill shot on it & drop it and being attacked by a bear, A bear that is charging at you where you have a split second to get off one round (let alone 10) before it begins to maul on you. lining up your shots & taking careful well placed shots to its vitals is not really a possibility. That is why higher calibers are recommended, so you can shoot through the dense bone structure and deliver enough energy deep into its vitals to stop it. So that shot placement is not as big of a factor.
Yes, a bear can fall from a tiny caliber but it is not the recommended course of action because while they can, odds are it will not.
There is also a difference between hunting a bear where you are allowed time to set up a fatal kill shot on it & drop it and being attacked by a bear, A bear that is charging at you where you have a split second to get off one round (let alone 10) before it begins to maul on you. lining up your shots & taking careful well placed shots to its vitals is not really a possibility. That is why higher calibers are recommended, so you can shoot through the dense bone structure and deliver enough energy deep into its vitals to stop it. So that shot placement is not as big of a factor.
SKS can get the job done, but the 7mm Rem Mag is hands down a better plains gun. It's flatter shooting and has more knock down power for larger game.
The SKS can do what you want inside of 150 yrds. First thing is make sure it is in good shape, the mod was well done, and it is reliable. Then you can go from there. I'd get some Privi-Partisan soft points for game. Black bear are not that tough. The 7.62x39 will certainly take one down. Especially considering you can back up the first shot with quick additional rounds.
I've done my bear hunting with heavier rounds but my grandfather shot over 30 with his 250 Savage which is probably in the same ballpark. The vast majority were one shot kills.
I've done my bear hunting with heavier rounds but my grandfather shot over 30 with his 250 Savage which is probably in the same ballpark. The vast majority were one shot kills.
If you're talking 6 feet laid out toe to toe, that's not a big bear & the 7.62x39 can do the job.
Nobody's saying it can't.
Thing is, statements about "absolutes" don't apply here.
The 7 Mag & 7.62x39 are totally different cartridges, designed for totally different uses, and each has its own range of utility.
The 7 Mag can handle anything from a big black/small (SMALL) brownie on down to a gopher, and out to 400+ yards with reliability, but it's overkill for anything from deer on down.
The 7.62 CAN handle a typical black bear, if placement's good, and a good bullet's recommended. Also, obviously anything smaller.
Anything bigger will probably require more shots fired, with hopefully more hits.
The SKS is not a long range gun, and it's far from an ideal choice in hunting elk and so on.
Both rifles CAN perform outside their intended design parameters, but with decreasing efficiency.
There is a crossover range where both could be useful (say, deer at 100 yards, cougar at 50 yards, etc.), but neither is ideal on everything from close-range ground squirrels & coastal grizzlies on out to elk at 400 yards.
You choose the hardware to match the type of shooting you want, or need, to do.
A 7 Mag's overkill for coyotes & cougars, a 7.62x39's under-gunned for polar bears.
Denis
Nobody's saying it can't.
Thing is, statements about "absolutes" don't apply here.
The 7 Mag & 7.62x39 are totally different cartridges, designed for totally different uses, and each has its own range of utility.
The 7 Mag can handle anything from a big black/small (SMALL) brownie on down to a gopher, and out to 400+ yards with reliability, but it's overkill for anything from deer on down.
The 7.62 CAN handle a typical black bear, if placement's good, and a good bullet's recommended. Also, obviously anything smaller.
Anything bigger will probably require more shots fired, with hopefully more hits.
The SKS is not a long range gun, and it's far from an ideal choice in hunting elk and so on.
Both rifles CAN perform outside their intended design parameters, but with decreasing efficiency.
There is a crossover range where both could be useful (say, deer at 100 yards, cougar at 50 yards, etc.), but neither is ideal on everything from close-range ground squirrels & coastal grizzlies on out to elk at 400 yards.
You choose the hardware to match the type of shooting you want, or need, to do.
A 7 Mag's overkill for coyotes & cougars, a 7.62x39's under-gunned for polar bears.
Denis
The number one thing is shot placement. Here is a picture of Bella Twin of Slave Lake Alberta with the world record Grizzly from 1953 she killed with one shot from her .22. http://www.angelfire.com/on2/LandOwner/images/GRIZLEY2.JPG Now if the bear had been riled best forget about 7mm etc and go with what the Alaskan Guides use for back up a Marlin in 45/70 with hard cast 400 plus grain bullets. It out does everything else on penetration
Yah exactly why the 45/70 to stop a bear charging at you down on all 4s you have to penetrate at least 2-3 feet of fat muscle and bone to reach a vital organ, at the very least and you may get only one shot that is why the Alaskan guides use the 45/70 it has the HP at close range. It will also disable by breaking shoulders etc so it stops the charge and gives you chance for shot number 2. Look up the penetration on this old round it out does just about everything except the heavy African Game rifles.
My ATV has a double-scabbard rig strapped up under the roof.
Every time it goes out more than five miles from home, it carries a Marlin Guide loaded with heavy Garrett loads in one side, and a 14-inch Remington 870 with 00 Buck in the other.
Those are my "Everytime" artillery, carried for short-range defense.
Between the two, they'll handle any bear in the lower 48, ****ed-off moose, cougar, wolves, rabid coyotes, and anything else with four legs that might take after me.
I've considered taking along the SKS, may someday, but on non-hunting trips where the only critter-shooting would be defensive, the only real advantage in it for me would be in a surprise pot-farm discovery. Which does occasionally happen out here.
Otherwise, a third long gun is either a .22 for plinking, or a Weatherby .223 just acquired for coyoting.
This "third gun" can change, depending on what other activities a given outing might involve.
I have no "One Gun Does It All".
Everybody considering a rifle acquisition should sit down, figure out exactly what he or she wants that rifle to do, and then choose a gun/caliber/bullet combo that meets the projected role of the gun.
Buying & trading, and THEN asking for advice, isn't the best way to go about it.
You want a general hunting rifle, figure out what & where it'll be hunting & go from there.
You want a varmint rifle, figure out what sort of varmint it'll be going up against & go on from there.
You want a "survival" rifle, figure out what it'll help you survive (starvation, attack by large animals, attack by humans) and go on from there.
You want a bear gun, get a REALISTIC bear gun (based on the type, locale & size of the bears it'll be used on) and go on from there.
Don't use a .223 varminter on a grizzly, don't use an elephant gun on squirrels, and so on.
The 7 Mag boltgun & the SKS are two vastly different guns.
Figure out what you want your rifle to do, and then get that rifle.
You want power & range, 7 Mag.
You want rapid fire, medium range, medium power, SKS.
Denis
Every time it goes out more than five miles from home, it carries a Marlin Guide loaded with heavy Garrett loads in one side, and a 14-inch Remington 870 with 00 Buck in the other.
Those are my "Everytime" artillery, carried for short-range defense.
Between the two, they'll handle any bear in the lower 48, ****ed-off moose, cougar, wolves, rabid coyotes, and anything else with four legs that might take after me.
I've considered taking along the SKS, may someday, but on non-hunting trips where the only critter-shooting would be defensive, the only real advantage in it for me would be in a surprise pot-farm discovery. Which does occasionally happen out here.
Otherwise, a third long gun is either a .22 for plinking, or a Weatherby .223 just acquired for coyoting.
This "third gun" can change, depending on what other activities a given outing might involve.
I have no "One Gun Does It All".
Everybody considering a rifle acquisition should sit down, figure out exactly what he or she wants that rifle to do, and then choose a gun/caliber/bullet combo that meets the projected role of the gun.
Buying & trading, and THEN asking for advice, isn't the best way to go about it.
You want a general hunting rifle, figure out what & where it'll be hunting & go from there.
You want a varmint rifle, figure out what sort of varmint it'll be going up against & go on from there.
You want a "survival" rifle, figure out what it'll help you survive (starvation, attack by large animals, attack by humans) and go on from there.
You want a bear gun, get a REALISTIC bear gun (based on the type, locale & size of the bears it'll be used on) and go on from there.
Don't use a .223 varminter on a grizzly, don't use an elephant gun on squirrels, and so on.
The 7 Mag boltgun & the SKS are two vastly different guns.
Figure out what you want your rifle to do, and then get that rifle.
You want power & range, 7 Mag.
You want rapid fire, medium range, medium power, SKS.
Denis
I don't know about the USA but up here generally speaking a bolt action 7mm is going to be worth a lot more money than the sks
You may have been better off selling your 7mm and then buying a gun of your choice
Also up here in BC fmj bullets are illegal to hunt with and that includes predator control, you may want to check your state regulations
You may have been better off selling your 7mm and then buying a gun of your choice
Also up here in BC fmj bullets are illegal to hunt with and that includes predator control, you may want to check your state regulations
The SKS will work, and if it's a true model D or M that takes real AK mags , you did good. Those should increase in value over the next few years. Everybody already took Mauser to task.: I would be more concerned with 2 legged predators, and then bears. Not so much wolves, and if a cat is hunting you you'll probably not know until it's on you.
: I would be more concerned with 2 legged predators, and then bears. Not so much wolves, and if a cat is hunting you you'll probably not know until it's on you.Sks for me sometime not long from now, too Would love one that takes AK mags, but their daft expensive, 3-4 times a regular one.
Sks goes BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM etc as occasion demands, not a bolter's strong suit as much I like them (I could have lived with the 7mm just as easy because the night is dark and full of terrors.....
If you can get someone to carry your .243, you'll be a useful unit. Have fun with the sks!
Would love one that takes AK mags, but their daft expensive, 3-4 times a regular one.Sks goes BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM etc as occasion demands, not a bolter's strong suit as much I like them (I could have lived with the 7mm just as easy
because the night is dark and full of terrors.....If you can get someone to carry your .243, you'll be a useful unit. Have fun with the sks!
thanks for the info everyone, my rifle was 636 from scheels with no scope and the Yugo i traded for seem to sell for 4/5 hundred but was less of a dedicated hunting rifle. Bears aren't in my part of the state yet so im not too worried about them yet, but they seem much more docile in comparison to the wolves and lion that actually come into town!
Besides i wouldn't want to shoot at anything 200 yrds away, just wounding it and letting it die won't sit well with me
I'll take it out and see what it does, maybe i can find some dummy grenades for it, the real ones would be good for large predators right? :thumb:
Besides i wouldn't want to shoot at anything 200 yrds away, just wounding it and letting it die won't sit well with me
I'll take it out and see what it does, maybe i can find some dummy grenades for it, the real ones would be good for large predators right? :thumb:
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