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United States of France

4.9K views 28 replies 11 participants last post by  arrexian  
#1 · (Edited)
Interesting perspective taken in this article regarding recent financial events.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1843168,00.html?cnn=yes

Sunday, Sep. 21, 2008
How We Became the United States of France
By Bill Saporito
This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

Admit it, mes amis, the rugged individualism and cutthroat capitalism that made America the land of unlimited opportunity has been shrink-wrapped by a half dozen short sellers in Greenwich, Conn. and FedExed to Washington D.C. to be spoon-fed back to life by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson. We're now no different from any of those Western European semi-socialist welfare states that we love to deride. Italy? Sure, it's had four governments since last Thursday, but none of them would have allowed this to go on; the Italians know how to rig an economy.

You just know the Frogs have only increased their disdain for us, if that is indeed possible. And why shouldn't they? The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist. The Bush Administration has preached the "ownership society" to America: own your house, own your retirement account; you don't need the government in your way. So Americans mortgaged themselves to the hilt to buy overpriced houses they can no longer afford and signed up for 401k programs that put money where, exactly? In the stock market! Where rich Republicans fleeced them.

Now our laissez-faire (hey, a French word) regulation-averse Administration has made France's only Socialist president, Francois Mitterand, look like Adam Smith by comparison. All Mitterand did was nationalize France's big banks and insurance companies in 1982; he didn't have to deal with bankers who didn't want to lend money, as Paulson does. When the state runs the banks, they are merely cows to be milked in the service of la patrie. France doesn't have the mortgage crisis that we do, either. In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world. Sure, France has its banlieus, where it likes to warehouse people who aren't French enough (meaning, immigrants orAlgerians) in huge apartment blocks. But the bulk of French homeowners are curiously free of subprime mortgages foisted on them by fellow citizens, and they aren't over their heads in personal debt.

We've always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch — except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal. They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don't have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free. For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven't had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon. There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does.

Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance. You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that. An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt. But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares.

Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda. And they're looking to Uncle Sam for investment — an investment that could have been avoided had Washington imposed more stringent mileage standards years earlier. But we don't want to interfere with market forces like the French do — until we do.

Mitterand's nationalization program and other economic reforms failed, as the development of the European Market made a centrally planned economy obsolete. The Rothschilds got their bank back, a little worse for wear. These days, France sashays around the issue of protectionism in a supposedly unfettered EU by proclaiming some industries to be national champions worthy of extra consideration — you know, special needs kids. And we're not talking about pastry chefs, but the likes of GDF Suez, a major utility. I never thought of the stocks and junk securities sold by Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley as unique, but clearly Washington does. Morgan's John Mack calls SEC boss Chris Cox to whine about short sellers and bingo, the government obliges. The elite serve the elite. How French is that?

Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than France.

So yes, while we're still willing to work ourselves to death for the privilege of paying off our usurious credit cards, we can no longer look contemptuously at the land of 246 cheeses. Kraft Foods has replaced American International Group in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the insurance company having been added to Paulson's nationalized portfolio. Macaroni and cheese has supplanted credit default swaps at the fulcrum of capitalism. And one more thing: the food snob French love McDonalds, which does a fantastic business there. They know a good freedom fry when they taste one.
 
#2 ·
Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than Franc
The French by and large eat fairly well and are pretty healthy. You won't find too many eating imported food from China or meat raised to the low standards of the US.
It works for them, so why worry about it?
 
#3 ·
Interesting article. France is a Republic like the US too and deeply Christian by faith, so maybe it's time they took some hints. I'm not saying roll over and accept it's wrong, instate a French national as President and change the national language. Although that is how some would like to see such an article. Maybe it's just time the people of the US were untrained of the rhetorical propaganda about France which has been subliminally and liminally pumped into them for decades. Not that I expect anyone will read beyond the first few lines of the article, before tearing into France, like the unseen want. Over in the Uk there's been political talk of France's model, with the gas crisis. The UK had plenty of gas, at a price which could be held accountable, but now it's pulled out by MNCs and old people freeze in the 4th richest country on earth. But then once the word "nationalise" is mentioned, all hell breaks loose amongst the sensationalists.
 
#4 ·
I Maybe it's just time the people of the US were untrained of the rhetorical propaganda about France which has been subliminally and liminally pumped into them for decades.
99.999999999 percent of the people who criticize France have never been there nor have a passport.
 
#19 ·
In case anyone forgot....

Following the Declaration of Independence of the thirteen colonies, the American Revolution had been well received in France, both by the population and the enlightened elites. The Revolution was perceived as the incarnation of the Enlightenment Spirit against the "English tyranny". Benjamin Franklin, dispatched to France in December of 1776 to rally her support, was welcomed with enthusiasm, and numerous Frenchmen embarked for the Americas to help the war, motivated by the prospect of valor in battle or animated by the sincere ideal of liberty and republicanism, like Pierre Charles L'Enfant, and La Fayette, who enlisted in 1776.

The official reaction was more quiet . Louis XVI wanted to help the colonies. But, because of the financial situation in France, he just provided clandestine aid through Beaumarchais. Vergennes (in office from 1774 to 1781) was in favor of open participation by France and suggested the possibility of commercial and diplomatic gains: The situation was under French analysis, and they were looking for allies (Spain through their Family Pact, and Austria), or at least ensuring their neutrality (Austria, Holland, Prussia).
 
#21 ·
99.999999999 percent of the people who criticize France have never been there nor have a passport.


where did you find that stat. at ?
i've been to france and i don't really care it at all. also i just so happen to be Norse. And am also Asatru "religion of the Norse". And having studied WWII i do have quiet a working idea of what the nazi's used my religions symbols and other parts of for and the why behind it as well. what you are spewing so far in this thread comes across as tripe to me.

don't trust everything you read on wikipedia as it is edited by everyone who wants to and anyone can throw an article on to it as well.
 
#22 ·
99.999999999 percent of the people who criticize France have never been there nor have a passport.


where did you find that stat. at ?
i've been to france and i don't really care it at all. also i just so happen to be Norse. And am also Asatru "religion of the Norse". And having studied WWII i do have quiet a working idea of what the 's used my religions symbols and other parts of for and the why behind it as well. what you are spewing so far in this thread comes across as tripe to me.

don't trust everything you read on wikipedia as it is edited by everyone who wants to and anyone can throw an article on to it as well.
Been there also, the French are a bunch of snobs on steroids toward Americans.

I waited 45 minutes to get waited in a restaurant because I only spoke english, while other customers were helped, it happened to all the Americans there.

No France for me.
 
#29 ·
Thought this could intrigue you Maurepas. It's a BBC article talking about how the French are set to deal with any financial crisis better than most. Touches on how people don't (and can't) spend what they don't have and how they stand to pull through any major US housing collapse. Also talks about the "frugal" lifestyle and that it is. I will have to take my camera out with photographing local gardens in mind; small spaces are maximised with growing all sorts. Personal livestock everywhere.

Unlike Britain, the US and many other countries, France appears to be weathering the credit crunch storm in reasonable shape.

The BBC's Emma Jane Kirby asks if other nations should take a leaf out of the thrifty Gallic book?

Shoppers in Paris
In France, it is very difficult to spend money you do not have

If I had to use one word to describe France's financial system, the word I would choose would be "cautious".

French banks are immensely careful about whom they lend money to and, to limit risks, they spread their investments much more widely than those in the US or UK.

Only about a quarter of banking activity is related to investment banking and dealer-broker activity - the rest is all to do with retail banking.

This meant when the credit crunch bit, the French banks were hit a lot less hard than those in many other countries.

But it is not just about banking investments - this country as a whole simply takes far fewer risks.


In London... it was as if wealth was something you could get from a bank, it's a sort of miracle people seem to believe in England
Francois Artignan, banker

Take the level of household debt. In France, it is at 47% of GDP, while in the UK it is well over twice that.

It's not that temptation does not exist in France - the lure of consumerism is just as strong as it is elsewhere.

But it is very difficult to spend money you do not have in France.

French credit cards are little more than debit cards, so there is no question of simply sticking a couple of flat screen TVs on your credit card and hoping to pay for them later - if there are insufficient funds in your account, your bank will immediately block the transaction.

In the wealthy suburb of St Germain-en-Laye, just outside Paris, I met Francois Artignan, a well-to-do banker who moved back to France two years ago after a long stint of living in the UK.

Francois Artignan dines with family
Mr Artignan was 43 when he bought his first house in France

Francois admits he misses the buzz of London living but says he was alarmed by the way so many British people lived on their credit cards and never saved money.

"It's true that you can note a big difference in consuming behaviours between the French and the English," Mr Artignan says.

"People here don't believe you can just put your debts together and get them refinanced... But in London... it was as if wealth was something you could get from a bank, it's a sort of miracle people seem to believe in England.

"It seems to me people there are very keen to use up all the money they have, and that's a worry when you wonder how people are going to have money for retirement for instance," Mr Artignan says.

Sluggish growth

From his Paris office, the chief economist for market analyst Xerfi, Alexander Law, has been comparing the spending patterns of France and Britain.

A woman looks at a real estate ads in Paris
A loan for a mortgage is impossible without a big deposit

Mr Law, who has dual nationality, believes that innate French prudence has saved it from disaster.

"Generally in France you spend what you have and not more," he explains.

"In the US and the UK, the economy has been driven by household spending, consumption has been driven by credit, and a lot less in France, so that's why when there were periods of expansion France grew a lot more slowly than the UK and the US but conversely when it's slowing down, it will slow down in a more moderate fashion than the UK or the US."

France's rate of growth is horribly sluggish - this year it looks set to hover around just 1%, meaning its likely to be way off target for meeting its promise to the EU to bring its budget deficit back under control by 2012.

But although its slow economy is hardly the envy of the world, its reluctance to tie its economy into the housing market in the same way the US did has also meant that when the American sub-prime market collapsed, it did not drag the French market with it.

There are far fewer household owners here than in the UK - about 57% of French people are on the property ladder, compared to 70% in the UK.

Although a high earner, Mr Artignan was 43 before buying his first home because in France, unless you have a big deposit, you can forget begging the banks for a huge loan.

Two conditions

President Nicolas Sarkozy is trying to push France into becoming a nation of house owners by building thousands of cheap new homes.

A cheap new house being built
Thousands of new cheap houses are being built across France

But France still believes in strict rules and regulations, Finance Minister Christine Lagarde says.

"Expect two conditions - a down payment of 20% of the value of the house plus mortgage [repayments] which will not exceed 30% of income.

"You already have a pretty good safety net there and clearly no real estate financing similar to the sub-prime market that has existed in the US and which has hurt the financial system so much," Ms Lagarde says.

France has long been feeling the pinch of the global rise in food and fuel prices and many people here complain that their spending power is falling fast.

In France, 46% of people chose to stay home for their summer holiday this year rather than splashing out on an expensive break away, and so many people are cutting back on dining out that some 3,000 cafes and restaurants went out of business in the first three months of this year.

Finance Minister Christine Lagarde
Ms Lagarde says many people are living in the "world of fantasy"

Sparse spending means sparse growth - but should other countries take a leaf out of the parsimonious Gallic book?

"I'm not suggesting that we have the basic principles right, I'm not suggesting that we can teach the world lessons," Ms Lagarde says.

"But I think it will be for each and every category of players, traders, regulators, supervisors, to examine what they have done, what they should have done and what they should be doing in the future to bring a bit more morality into the system.

"I think we have let this world of fantasy and virtuality overcome reality... There have to be more principles, more discipline and a bit more reality," the minister says.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7635327.stm