Most critical is taking care of the feet. Shoes that fit and clean socks.

I've done hundreds of trips, humping and X-Country Skiing. Start out with clean dry socks, at mid morning, take off the boots to air out your feet, and switch socks, right on left foot, left on right foot.

At the noon stop air the feet and change socks. At mid afternoon air the feet and switch the socks again. On long hikes you don't have to carry lots of socks, just rinse them out and hang them on the outside of your pack to dry.

25 years as an infantryman, and much more then that hunting, hiking and skiing, I learned the feet are your most important tool.

 

Thanks a lot mate, will absolutely do that.

 

I have decided that I'll be walking from Italy to Spain.
My biggest concern at the moment is water and foot injuries.
I have some fat reserves in my body and I'll be entering a state of 30-40% ketosis in a day (I can always delay that), that should give me a potential 30 days fast if needed.

I have calculated that 10 hours a day of 1km/20min (about 1m/s) should round up to a 40 days trip.

As I'll be hitting the road with no money whatsoever (and won't
hitch-hike), I'm quite concerned about water availability. Water is heavy and my backpack (and back) won't be able to carry more than 12 liters of water, even that seems too much.
There's also the food problem, as I won't be able to purchase food, I have no idea how to go on about it. I would bring a few cans of beans with me, but I'm not sure how much those can help me. The proteins from beans (though not a complete spectrum) should be enough to repair my muscles, and the carbohydrates should give me enough energy to work the legs and glucose for the brain, but there might be something I'm missing.

Do you have any tips on how to successfully find and recognize edible food and drinkable water?

How would you suggest I prepare for foot injuries? I mean, what kind of medical supply.

There probably is much else I am missing, and I'll be grateful if anyone could point out my shortcomings for this scenario.

EDIT: Right, I almost forgot about heat stroke management, but I'm not sure I want to bother you with that, seems like something I can just google.

If your plan consists of long daily marches, illegal camping and starving while doing it, you might want to start with actual planning skills. This is a stupid undertaking. Get a job, save money, and then do it when you can equip yourself decently. You won't be marching a month on your "fat reserves".

(edit: yes, i realize, probably just a troll)

 

No money to procure food over a 40 day, 1200mile trek starting out with some beans and ability to carry 12L of water. .....lol obviously not a serious post.

However for interests sake from an expedition point of view , youll need maybe 120L-160L of water and at least 80lbs of food over that period.

 

He will need a wide tip sharpie marker to make those signs saying 'Hungry. Please help'. to stand at road intersections/off ramps. He shouldn't have much difficulty finding a piece of cardboard to write whatever message he decides on. The marker would be useful. Multiple language skills helpful also in writing the sign.

Any data on how far a person 'fasting' can walk after say five days of no food? 10 days?

Oh, duck tape is supposed to be good for blisters. Antibiotic cream or just use the local healthcare/hospital system for when you get infections.

You're going to need to worry about electrolyte loss too. Try to keep to well used roads so you will be found and toted to the hospital faster. It is SUMMER over there. Drought too in Italy I understand. Be careful with the water -- whatever is moving in streams and such will probably be polluted.

 

Should probably start with one of these.

 

I have decided that I'll be walking from Italy to Spain.

I have calculated that 10 hours a day of 1km/20min (about 1m/s) should round up to a 40 days trip.

As I'll be hitting the road with no money whatsoever (and won't
hitch-hike), I'm quite concerned about water availability. Water is heavy and my backpack (and back) won't be able to carry more than 12 liters of water, even that seems too much.

There's also the food problem, as I won't be able to purchase food, I have no idea how to go on about it.

EDIT2: Please, if you don't have anything useful to contribute to the above, cannot understand that a person might want to do this, have no idea how the body manages food resources, cannot comprehend a life without money even for only a month, or any really shallow reasoning, do refrain from posting hateful comments forwarded to mock my person. Thanks.

A pack that has 2 compartment for hydration bladder (totalling 6 L) will do just fine, add water filter & chlorine dioxide tablets for water purification (Katadyn is highly recommended for European area)

Since you will be walking on road side, for food replenishment you could try to bring any of these ;

Obviously you can't eat them, but they will guarantee you will get foods, beverages, room with a bed, etc when needed :

Or if you don't wan't to bring them you can always use any credit card (VISA / Mastercard) or any other debit card that widely accepted across EU :

Other method of food replenishment would be to be nice & polite to any peoples you happen to meet on the road (assuming they stopping by) and ask them for foods

 

Right! Water purification tablets! Thanks for that really had not thought about it... also thanks for suggesting me the right type.

Ah, I'm glad to know that 6L can be enough. I'll have other stuff in the backpack and really did not want to overwork my back and feet.

Surely I'll have some backup money with me in the case of an emergency, but I'll really try not to use them. Yeah yeah, I know, I'm crazy xD. Been told that many times in my life, but I also often surpassed expectations.

Cheers for the info buddy.

 

Refugees are apparently doing this by the thousands. But you're planning to cross on private land with no money? Here the cops would pick you up on vagrancy. EU borders are more open but do you have proper papers? Some countries won't let you in without money.

 

EU borders are more open but do you have proper papers? Some countries won't let you in without money.

EU has no border, they are socialist (not yet communist), which is why they let everybody in so they could share their tax payer € to the refugee (fair distribution of wealth)

 

Is this a "wanna see if I can do it?......scenario...?

 

I kind of "get you" on this. I have done survival hikes as well, the longest being hours under the 21 day mark. But they were in back woods areas, not along roads. Total gear, total - clothing included - 15 pounds (6.8 kg?). Did not cross any national borders though. I had no time frame either, I stopped when I wanted; to gather, trap and fish or rain kept me under cover.

3km/hr (1.86 mi/hr) could be doable, depending upon terrain. Personally I would lower that. And plan on the 10 hours being spanned over a 12-14 hour time frame.

The advise on the socks was primo! I carried three sets, wore two each day and cleaned (at least rinsed) 1 pair at night and the second in the morning before I headed out. The night rinsed pair was on top of ruck to finish drying until mid-day switch out.

Learn how to build/set traps, trot lines and the edible plants in the areas you will be travelling through. Only those in the region can give "advise" on available food sources - you have to learn this or you will be in bad spot.

Have a separate water bottle, larger than your drinking bottles by at least half, for settling water at night before filtering/purification in the morning. It will help a lot. (I did not do this on my first hike, have on a couple of others and it really was nice having something dedicated to settling turbid water. I used a collapsible basin.)

Rucksack, poncho, wool blanket, 4 - 1qt canteen, canteen cup (main cook pot), water filter, wide brimmed hat, small covered pot (for slow cooking, bury in the fire pit), flint, knife, fishing kit, para cord, long pants, shorts, 2 T shirts, Long sleeve wool flannel, boots (those, the blanket and the socks were over half my gear weight, nearly 9 lbs), toothbrush (yep, took that with me), simple first aide kit, salt, pepper, small bottle of honey, garlic powder and dried split peas.

Everything else was foraged.

Many will tell you you cannot do it, but you can. Just don't do it until you have learned how to forage and practiced. It really is not that hard - as long as you have no responsibilities to anything, anyone or anywhere - it is not too hard to end up dead either. Remember that.

 

Thanks for your reply, Lugh.

What would you say would be the most probable causes of death in such scenario?

 

As I'll be hitting the road with no money whatsoever (and won't
hitch-hike),

Surely I'll have some backup money with me in the case of an emergency,

Yeah yeah, I know, I'm crazy xD.

Not crazy, just not sincere in your claims.

EDIT2: Please, if you don't have anything useful to contribute to the above, do refrain from posting hateful comments forwarded to mock my person. Thanks.

I think duelling haters is what you were looking forward to when you posted.

 

...and trolling mode activated :rofl:

 

I really will never understand your mentality. How can it be that you have nothing better to do or to say than just bother people? It just boggles me.

Anyway, I'm done feeding the trolls. You people are just too slimy for me, I honestly feel repelled, and this will be my last statement forwarded to you(s).

 

Long, long hike? Wear two pairs of socks, change both daily. Start months ahead of your trip by washing both feet each day in hot soapy water in the shower. Wash the feet over and over with your hand, between toes, up to ankle, going over the soles repeatedly. Repetition of this will kill all the bacteria and all the excess skin on your feet will fall off resulting in fewer blisters.

Your feet are the most critical body part on a long hike.

 

Thanks for the info Fertig! The whole "washing" preparation is particularly interesting, would not have thought of that by myself in 1mil years. Really appreciate it mate.

 

I'd multiply 1.5 to your time. Yes, 1km/20 sounds doable, but you have to account for weather, heat sickness, time spent to aquire food and water and those days when walking is the last thing you want to do so spend some time not doing it.

Bring plenty of good socks, duct tape and moleskin for foot issues, give your feet time to breath too.

I'd reconsider taking no money. Plan for an emergency and plan for the worst. Cutting your trip short or quitting because you were too stubborn to keep a bit extra and swallow your pride will make the trip you do make even more bitter if you do happen to fail.

Best of luck. This is going to be a hard one.

Looking forward to updates.

 

Yeah, you're right about the time period... I was thinking about it but wasn't ready to admit it to myself that I'll need more time for the very same reasons you have stated.

I'll give a hard, deep thought to what you said about the money, it actually already happened to me to mess things up on that front: I brought too little money because I was too stubborn and proud, I ended up screweing up completely my whole plans and had to cancel the trip a week earlier, lose all my progress, retreat and reorganize... Ended up costing me much much more that way too... I'm an idiot...
Good thing you reminded me of that, thanks.

 

That far I would suggest that you use a cart.

 

What, like a shopping cart? xD
Post apocalyptic style? xDD

Jokes aside, I checked some hiking carts but I really don't think I want to be bringing one of those. Thanks for bringing it up though.

 

There probably is much else I am missing, and I'll be grateful if anyone could point out my shortcomings for this scenario.

Tips:

You aren't going to average a steady 18+ miles per day for 40 days on no food. Ketosis state and surviving off of body fat is a bunch of theoretical crap spewed by people who've not covered such steady mileage days with a pack on their back. It's much less pleasant (or physically effective) in the flesh. BTDT. 744 miles in 40 days. No food. And no apparent prior experience or training for such an endeavor. Good luck with that.

12 liters of water? 12kg/26+ lbs of water weight on your back? Why on God's green earth would you even consider that? You're hiking across some of the most beautiful, most inhabited, and civilized portions of Southern Europe. Not the Sahara. There's water available everywhere... especially in the towns and villages that appear every few kilometers. Carry 4 liters max for a day's travel. And a backpacking water filter for procuring from streams and lakes.

For food carried, the goal is the highest amount of balanced (1/3 carbs, 1/3 fats, 1/3 proteins) CALORIES you can tuck into your pack. Nutella and multi-grain bread from any small bakery would be a good start. Some sausage, cheese, & eggs. Honey. Butter. Instant rice, porridge, or oatmeal. Nuts. Chocolate. Dried or fresh fruit. Typical hiking fare. Stay close to the coast and beg, borrow, or steal seafood. Canned beans, while nutritious to a point, are low in calories for dry weight and include too much water/container weight.

Is this some monastic effort at self-deprivation or are you just broke and unemployed? Summer time walkabout along some of the best scenery in the world... during prime tourist season...and you won't accept a ride... or free lunch... or an invite to dinner at someone's house? What if a carload of pretty things headed for the French Riviera offer you a ride and a party they're headed to? Plan on turning that down too?

Jumping Jeebuz. Try enjoying life instead of planning a personal suckfest. I like the general idea of where you're going. Trip of a lifetime. But the self-imposed penitent BS is just not very brilliant. Plan a vacation instead of a death march. Stop and forage off of the human landscape; work odd jobs for a bit. Hitchhike & hostel when it suits you. See the sights and meet some people. Earn a little money here and there on the black labor market.

Hell, I could spend the whole summer just at Garda. And yes, I've lived and worked in Europe. Including everywhere you'll be travelling except for Spain.

If you're just looking for deprivation, hardship, and a test of will power, a French Foreign Legion recruiting center is located in Marseille. They claim to need 1700 recruits for this year.

Frankly, I think that you have little chance of success with your present self-imposed limitations. Your very basic questions betray a total lack of long distance hiking experience. Which means that your plan (as currently projected) is not realistic. Modified... it's quite doable. Modifications would include:

1. Accept rides when/where the mood strikes you.
2. Less rigid timetable (unless you actually have to be somewhere by a certain date).
3. Carry way less water.
4. Figure out how to obtain civilized meals along the route; everyone else in Europe does.
5. Enjoy the trip. Starvation & vagrancy are not conducive to hiking enjoyment.
6. Reduce your daily average mileage expectations; it won't work out like you think.

You asked for comments. I just answered.

 

Tips:

You aren't going to average a steady 18+ miles per day for 40 days on no food. Ketosis state and surviving off of body fat is a bunch of theoretical crap spewed by people who've not covered such steady mileage days with a pack on their back. It's much less pleasant (or physically effective) in the flesh. BTDT. 744 miles in 40 days. No food. And no apparent prior experience or training for such an endeavor. Good luck with that.

12 liters of water? 12kg/26+ lbs of water weight on your back? Why on God's green earth would you even consider that. You're hiking across some of the most beautiful, most inhabited, and civilized portions of Southern Europe. Not the Sahara. There's water available everywhere... especially in the towns and villages that appear every few kilometers. Carry 4 liters max for a day's travel. And a backpacking water filter for procuring from streams and lakes.

For food carried, the goal is the highest amount of balanced (1/3 carbs, 1/3 fats, 1/3 proteins) CALORIES you can tuck into your pack. Nutella and multi-grain bread from any small bakery would be a good start. Some sausage, cheese, & eggs. Honey. Butter. Instant rice, porridge, or oatmeal. Nuts. Chocolate. Dried or fresh fruit. Typical hiking fare. Stay close to the coast and beg, borrow, or steal seafood. Canned beans, while nutritious to a point, are low in calories for dry weight and include too much water/container weight.

Is this some monastic effort at self-deprivation... or are you just broke and unemployed? Summer time walkabout along some of the best scenery in the world... during prime tourist season...and you won't accept a ride... or free lunch... or an invite to dinner at someone's house? What if a carload of pretty things headed for the French Riviera offer you a ride and a party they're headed to? Plan on turning that down too?

Jumping Jeebuz... Try enjoying life instead of planning a personal suckfest. I like the general idea of where you're going. Trip of a lifetime. But the self-imposed penitent BS is just not very brilliant. Plan a vacation instead of a death march. Stop and forage off of the human landscape; work odd jobs for a bit. Hitchhike & hostel when it suits you. See the sights and meet some people. Earn a little money here and there on the black labor market.

Hell, I could spend the whole summer just at Garda. And yes, I've lived and worked in Europe. Including everywhere you'll be travelling except for Spain.

If you're just looking for deprivation, hardship, and a test of will power, a French Foreign Legion recruiting center is located in Marseille. They need 1700 recruits for this year.

Frankly, I think that you have little chance of success with your present self-imposed limitations. Your very basic questions betray a total lack of long distance hiking experience. Which means that your plan (as currently projected) is not realistic. Modified... it's quite doable. Modifications would include:

1. Accept rides when/where the mood strikes you.
2. Less rigid timetable (unless you actually have to be somewhere by a certain date).
3. Carry way less water.
4. Figure out how to obtain civilized meals along the route; everyone else in Europe does.
5. Enjoy the trip. Starvation & vagrancy are not conducive to hiking enjoyment.
6. Reduce your daily average mileage expectations; it won't work out like you think.

You asked for comments. I just answered.

Basically what most of us couldn't be bothered posting but glad someone did.

 

Couple of years ago in the desolate area of NW Colorado, I passed a guy pushing a baby stroller with a canopy while walking along highway 40. Miles from any town with little shade available. Sage brush, weeds, hot and dry area.

Seemed like a great idea to not lug so much on his back. Probably could improvise to make the stroller something one could sit in with a shade cover. Only an idea.

 

Last year a man named Karl Metzler did the appliachian trail in record time, I post this not expecting you to set any speed records but to look at how much he ate while attempting the feat.

http://www.gq.com/story/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail-record

 

I will endorse the wearing of 2 pairs, a thinner nylon pair and a pair of technical/walking socks over the top. You could also try panty hose , but given the summer season, it might be a tad uncomfortable. Also make sure your footwear is well broken in, carrying the equivalent weight on your back for practice.

 

Got it, thanks for the ups!

 

Ambitious undertaking, but without extensive experience and training, your 1200 mile personal Bataan Death March will have to include regular local dogs, cats, rodents, snakes, etc on spits over your nightly fire unless you plan to film yourself starring in the euro version of Into The Wild 2. Not trolling you, just very, very concerned for your welfare. 10 hours walking a day burns up tremendous calories, friend.

 

Yeah, I understand it is quite an undertaking, but you also have to take into account that we don't have as much dangerous wildlife here. Most dangerous are wild boars. There are a few venomous snake's death a year, but they are rare, and those are really tiny snakes who just run away if you make enough noise while walking. Of course, you need to be careful, I spent most of my childhood working in the forest, never got bitten, and I may have seen 4 or 5 in all those years. Then there's the super occasional bear and wolf, but those are really rare. You see, if you have a look at the map, we just don't have much space here for wildlife, everything has been taken over by roads and buildings, also, I'll be skimming the coast once in France, and I'll be passing through in more urban areas when leaving Italy since I don't know how the non-local flora and fauna work.

As I have stated, I am used to even 14 hours a day of fast walking without resting a single day for months on end. Though if I really feel like I can't do it, I can always slow my pacing and/or rest. Not saying it'll be easy, or that I won't fail, that is clear and I'm ready to accept it.

 

I did about five miles of extremely rugged terrain (yes we have that in the Catskills - see Devil's Path) and I was hungry as hell when I got home.

Last week I did about 12 mile of rail trail (totally flat) and I was hungry as hell when I got home.

You cannot push yourself like that and starve yourself at the same time. It's just not healthy.

Devil's Path:

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/catsk...ls_path_7_catskill_peaks_23_miles_in_the_toughest_hiking_trail_in_the_east.html

Rail Trail:

http://catskillscenictrail.org/

 

Usually, if fasting, hunger disappears after between the 2nd and 5th day. After that, the body enters a deep state of ketosis and hunger goes completely away. It becomes unhealthy if you don't restart eating when the hunger comes back, then, you are really hurting yourself. The worst thing I saw was the hair loss (of course there is more: loss of muscle mass, psychological stress, and more), really disconcerting to see.

Don't hate me for this, we have decades of research on the matter, it is just widely misunderstood how this works. To me, it is chemically understandable, the research is solid, the test subjects (me included) clearly show it in action, and it makes the most evolutionary sense.

 

Usually, if fasting, hunger disappears after between the 2nd and 5th day. After that, the body enters a deep state of ketosis and hunger goes completely away.

I was up in Maine with my family on a road trip and we stopped at this little trailer along a road and it turns out it was a burger place along the AT.

A thru-hiker was there eating a burger and we got to talking about ketosis. He actually stopped into a doctor somewhere down in Virginia and was told his muscles were being eaten for nutrition. And that he smelled like nail polish remover.

He stopped for burgers between Virginia and Maine. Often.

 

How long did he fast? Hou much muscle mass did he lose? What kind of metabolism did he have?

Sorry, I don't want to be a know it all, but fasting response is highly dependent on genetic and body composition. It surely isn't for everyone, and anyone has his own limits. I tested mine quite a bit.

A single person, stating information by voice, is not a scientifically viable source for getting to a conclusion. The scientific method is based on hard, publicly verifiable evidence; and statistics have value only when very large subject pools have been analyzed.

Again, hopefully I don't come out as rude. I just love the scientific method, and have quite a bit of knowledge on the matter which i like to share. My fiance', who is becoming a neuroscientist, still asks me for info when she gets stuck in her studies. Yes, yes, rubbing my own wheels here xD

Still, hey, I might be proven wrong.
Anyhow, I don't need to force some crazy **** on myself, if I feel like things are not good for me, I'll eat more, screw it. If I fail and start starving, tough luck, I'll have to give up, go back to civilization, ask for a ride, and retreat. Expectations don't always turn out as reality, I'm ready for that. Just gonna pack well above what I think I'd need anyway. I just need to check the info that was shared on food consumption first, make some research, and make it fit for my metabolism and physiology.

Thanks for your concern though, it is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Ups, apparently I used a no-no word.

EDIT2: Also, forgot to mention, I realize I could be losing my life in the process, but that too is part of the journey and it is a calculated probability. I won't let fear of death dictate what I can or cannot do. That said, I surely am not suicidal xD, I'll always try to keep as alive as possible xD

 

Think about this...

You will be in Europe.

Besides burgers and tacos, what is America full of... Fake Euopean restaurants!!! Italian, Spanish, French, etc.

You will be in the middle of the real deal. Food, wine, conversation....

Just bring some money and have fun.

Save the deprivation for the proper circumstances.

 

ahahahah xD That post with picture was pure gold xDDD

True that though, gosh, when I came back to Italy from UK after 10 years... The food mate... the fooood... was sooo amazing. I was in the very south too, so fruit, meat, pasta, were just something else. But yeah you're actually spot on.

Still, c'mon dude xD, I'm trying to be all spiritual here but you're just like a little devil on my shoulder whispering me about untold deliciousness and how I should succumb to it xDDD

EDIT: Right, forgot to say also that, is not like I have such great money to bring with me, I am broke after all. Though I know very well how restaurants work, I managed a couple in UK. Probabilities are that if I hit a few, asking for leftovers which are about to go bad, or kitchen mistakes that usually get binned because of really screwed up company rules (I have much to say about this, the waste is crazy), I'll be given some good portions.

 

When I read someone saying "Oh,I forgot about water purification tablets",this tells me the OP is inexperienced in basic hiking knowledge.Call me a troll-but my comment is, no amount of "mind over matter" youthful hubris is going to change that.Going forward:Remember the 6 "Ps"-"Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance".

 

Uh... are you immigrating to another country? Otherwise how are you getting back to where you started?

 

I am emigrating indeed. I went back to the UK, but I realized I wanted something different, not more of the same. So I came back and reorganized.

I want to learn Spanish culture and language, work there, live there, and learn how the country and its politics work. As you may have noticed, I love languages. As I have mastered the English language, I now want to do the same with Spanish, which is the second most spoken language in the world.