[coyotemountain]

I think mental endurance is even more important than physical endurance. When I was at Fort Devons I was run harder than I'd ever been before, and I thought I'd die from it a few times. The trick is to know your limitations, and then push the envelope. Just a few more yards- then a few more.

Unlike a high performance vehicle- nearly anyone has all the racing parts allready installed- they need only be tuned correctly, and a solid mind to drive it.

I think you have highlighted what is probably the most important aspect of endurance: will and personal drive.

 

[Dwind]

that is why personal morale is so absolutely vital in survival. Someone that can crack a joke under stress is more likely to survive than someone that just woke up to find his house and city on fire with no food and sits on a rock and cries about it for 24 hours straight.

 

[coyotemountain]

running is essential, distance running is not. rather than type it all out, i would suggest you study the difference between fast twitch and slow twitch fibers, then study their applications. start with that, then we will move on to the next problem.

Forgive me Sir for not delving into an in depth discussion of running physiology.
Aside from being rather obtuse, I had hoped to keep this discussion at a level of comprehension accessible to everyone.
I am not in the business of teaching basic human cell physiology, but for those who are interested, I would highly recommend the 4th edition of Timothy Noakes' "Lore of Running". Dr. Noakes is the Discovery Health Professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town, South Africa. Part I, Chapter I of his text addresses muscle structure and function. While anyone can find a rough overview of skeletal muscle metabolism in any biology text, Lore of Running approaches the topic from an athletic science perspective, especially as it pertains to running.

For those of you who wish for a more technical treatment, read on.
*Note, this is not wikipedia information. When dealing with science, reputable information can usually only be found in peer-reviewed journals and textbooks basing their claims on peer-reviewed material. User discretion is advised.

I have studied exercise physiology, especially as it relates to lower-body sports for several years now and can briefly comment on what varmintstalkers is referring to in some detail:

Fast twitch muscle fibers, or type II muscle fibers, are found in higher concentrations in sprinters and "maximum exertion" athletes. Type II fibers can be divided into at least 5 sub-types: IIa, IIb, IIc, IIab and IIac (Staron, 1997). Type IIa fiber has many similarities with Type I muscle fiber in that it has a higher concentration of mitochondria, resulting in an increased capacity for ATP production through oxygen-dependent metabolism in the mitochondria.

What this means is that as long as TypeIIa muscle fibers have a supply of oxygen, they can produce ATP which is then used for a variety of other intra-cellular processes. Type IIa muscle fibers are found alongside the "slow-twitch" Type I muscle fibers in highly trained endurance athletes, such as long-distance runners and cross-country skiiers.
The TypeIIb muscle fiber is what most trained biologists think of when they hear the word "sprinter". It has a low mitochondrial concentration, compared to Type I and TypeIIa and is not as suitable at producing large volumes of ATP in sustained oxygen-dependant metabolism of glucose. TypeIIb can, however, contract rapidly and strongly for short amounts of time, but is inherently limited by the inability of its mitochondria to sustain the repeated concentric contractions necessary for endurance running.
TypeIIc muscle fiber is of "indeterminate origin" and functions sort of like a skeletal muscle "stem cell", possessing the ability to transform into either a TypeI or TypeIIa muscle fiber. The percentage of TypeIIc fibers is highest in long-distance runners (Staron et al. 1984), indicating that a certain amount of genetic predisposition towards distance running is often accompanied by mutable muscle fibers able to change into either fast-twitch (Type IIa) or slow-twitch (Type I) muscle fibers.

Naturally born sprinters with "raw speed" have a higher ratio of Type IIb to Type I muscle fibers in their skeletal muscles, while naturally born distance runners with "raw endurance" have a higher ratio of Type I and Type IIa and Type IIc to Type IIb muscle fibers. All people are born with a genetically determined ratio of Type II to Type I muscle fibers, and the % composition of their Type IIc muscle fibers relative to the rest of their muscle fibers will often determining their ability to successfully adapt to either sprint or endurance training easily and quickly.

Because of this fact, the reason I have been advocating a "run easy, listen to your body and recover sufficiently" program should be clear. Not all of us were created with the same types of muscle fibers in the same proportions. Some of us will excel at endurance training, others at sprinting, others at some happy medium.

However, the benefits afforded by endurance training have been recognized by all sports and excercise physiologists for well over 30 years, and even sprinting coaches have recognized the need for endurance training in their schedule to create create an increased capacity for work and recovery in their athletes. I will agree with varmintstalkers that running is essential, but I beg to differ on the point that "endurance running" is not essential to a well-rounded fitness program. For those who are naturally gifted to the extent that they can run 10 miles in under 1 hour with little to no training (east african rift-valley athletes), undertaking an endurance training program may not be as necessary as a calisthenics program for them.
For everyone else, a well rounded fitness program should involve segments of distance running at an easy, comfortable pace. There is no other activity that can develop the heart and the lungs in quite the same capacity; improving your cardiovascular infrastructure should be the first step in improving your fitness. It certainly makes adapting to other forms of training much easier.

 

[varmintstalkers]

so you have slowly moved out of promoting distance runing and are now solely promoting a well balanced program. we are getting somewhere.

people have a right to know why you are promoting something. i believe the people here are intelligent enough to understand simple things like muscle fibers, if they dont already know.

also, i dont remember referring to "endurance running" in that fashion. i remember calling it distance running, as you have. if i did referr to it in that way, theres the correction.

so, what exactly happens to the fast twitch fibers when you do too much, say, distance running?

 

[coyotemountain]

so you have slowly moved out of promoting distance runing and are now solely promoting a well balanced program. we are getting somewhere.

people have a right to know why you are promoting something. i believe the people here are intelligent enough to understand simple things like muscle fibers, if they dont already know.

also, i dont remember referring to "endurance running" in that fashion. i remember calling it distance running, as you have. if i did referr to it in that way, theres the correction.

so, what exactly happens to the fast twitch fibers when you do too much, say, distance running?

Dear Varmintstalkers,
I would refer you to my post at the beginning of this thread. My stance on distance running and endurance training was established in the first post, and it has not changed since. I have already stated that excessive endurance training can easily lead to over-training and injury in my original post and every successive post you have queried me on.

As to your question about fast-twitch muscle fibers, only the TypeIIc "indeterminate origin" muscle fibers are capable of transforming into Type I or Type IIa muscle fibers, both of which are suitable for endurance training; Type I fibers are more fatigue resistant than TypeIIa and are recruited earlier in exercise, followed by the recruitment of Type IIa muscle fibers later during the exercise period to supplement the Type I muscle fibers, especially if the activity becomes more vigorous in nature. This successive recruitment eventually proceeds through all muscle fiber types, from the most fatigue resistant (Type I) at the beginning of exercise, all the way through the most power-producing (Type IIb) at the end of rigorous exercise.
This means that once exercise proceeds past a certain exertion level (different for everyone), more and more muscle-fiber types begin to be recruited to produce the force exertion that is required. Sprinting at the end of an endurance run recruits all muscle-fiber types, from Type I (which have been activated since exercise began at a slow, steady pace) through to Type IIb (the "maximum" exertion muscle fibers).

There is practically no difference between "endurance running" and distance running. They are practically synonymous. Distance running and endurance running are not so much defined as the length of the distance that is run (it varies per individual) as much as it defined by the type of cellular respiration that takes place (namely, aerobic respiration). Endurance running and distance running can also be defined as any type of running that develops and trains the cardiovascular and skeletal muscular system for sustained maximum exertion over a period of time greater than 2 to 5 minutes.
In endurance training, improving the aerobic respiration efficiency of your muscles (where your muscles consume less oxygen that your lungs can supply) is achieved by running slowly and steadily at a comfortable pace for a certain period of time. The length of time at which different individuals can run at this pace/exertion effort varies from person to person. Again it is not so much the distance that matters, as much as it is the "time" spent in this training zone. Generally, most exercise physiologists recommend a minimum of 15 to 20 minutes in this "zone" as being the necessary stimulus to trigger physiological adaptations. This "zone", for those of you with heart monitors, is usually around 120 beats per minute. Your mileage may vary, depending on your resting heart-rate, but this minimum "zone" should be at an effort level that you can sustain for 15 to 20 minutes without much discomfort.

I still maintain that distance running may be the most important training one can undertake as preparation for a survival situation, but I am certainly not exclusively running oriented in my dialogue: As I explicitly stated in my original post, on DAY 1 of this thread:

Basically, any activity that elevates your heart-rate above 100 to 120 beats per minute for an extended period of time can be considered endurance training. Something is INFINITELY BETTER than nothing. If you cannot run. Walk. If you can't walk, then bike or swim. Or crawl. If you cannot embark upon an endurance program, lift weights, spend time outside, become a sprinter, just DO SOMETHING. The more active you are in every-day life, the better prepared you will be when Crunch time comes around. Walking or biking 20 minutes to work every day could mean the difference between being able to evacuate and make it to your destination or falling down from exhaustion 1 mile short of your goal, unable to go any further. Anything helps.

I will happily answer any questions you may have about human physiology and adaptations to endurance training, but I think the aim of your posts on this thread has been to discredit me and portray me as an exercise elitist. I lift weights and do my fair share of calisthenics and plyometric drills designed to develop strength and speed. But I still maintain that endurance training is possibly the most important training one can undertake in preparation for a survival situation.

 

[kajunman1]

"A man's got to know his limitations"

At the age of 42 parts don't tune up or stay tuned up as easily as 18.

 

[MountainMan]

I am a personal trainer and strength coach. My competative sport of choice is powerlifting. I am one of the best super heavyweight lifters in the US and occasionaly the world. I currently weigh about 335lbs, and the endurance aspects of even minor survival situations scares me.

This thread absolutely facinates me as I believe the advice is spot on for conditioning ourselves for emergencys(that is my professional opinion). The observations about joint and bone conditioning vs muscle and cardio conditioning is right on. It takes time to get your bones and joints strong and healthy. I know this through personal experience. I damaged my knees at 16 and running is now not an option for me. Also due to youthful exuberance I gave myself shinsplints at 17years old.

For those like me (heavy, or old, or have band knees/ankles) I would like to suggest walking as an alternative to running. The walking should be progressive in difficulty like the running (as outlined above), but you should take advantage of some additional options. In a bug-out situation most of us will likely be carrying a pack of some sort on some type of off pavement trail. In a walking program start by using walking shoes on a track or pavement. Graduate to the heavier type of foot gear you should be using in a "situation". Once you have mastered the mileage put on your pack, but fill it with light weight gear like a sleeping bag. Start at 5lbs of weight and SLOWLY progress up to full pack weight. Once you have mastered your pack for distance (I would suggest 10 miles one a week with several 2-3 mile sessions during the week at different paces.) Take your program to the trails. Once again go slow. You have more chance of twisting ankles on a trail, you have to learn how to move on uneven ground. Once you master your goal distance on trails you can try occasional cross country non-trail walks (remember to tread lightly and respect property rights).

I have incorporated these walking techniques over the past two years and have gone from not being able to tolerate the pain of walking 100yrds to being able to walk with a pack for a couple of miles. Not Olympian by any standard, but considering the nature of my sport, my weight, and my injuries I think that anyone else would have much more fantastic results.

Thanks for the important thread Coyote.

 

[neal]

Good thread! I was just beginning to get back into running before I had to move back to the city. A typical day’s work on the land included 10-20 miles of walking steep hills while carrying 20-50 pounds. I was fit aerobically, but I hadn’t yet had time to redevelop the running muscles I had when in school track.

I thought it might be interesting to some of the older forum users that a couple years after moving into town where I got almost no exercise, I went through a correctional officer academy with its daily PT. I was surprised to see how unfit the high school grads and most everyone else was in the academy. During jumping jacks alone, most officers experienced fatigue within about 35 reps. By 100 reps, everyone I could see had dropped out, and the young muscular instructor himself was straining. I could have easily done a thousand reps without even breathing hard or having a much higher heart rate. At almost 50 years old I could easily out-distance everyone in any type of endurance exercise.

I believe that a person shouldn’t let their age be an excuse for avoiding aerobic exercise. For some of us, survival means endurance, and in my region if a person can’t walk 30 miles straight while carrying at least 50 pounds, well, he’s dead. Other regions may not be as harsh as mine, and there might not be such a strong need for endurance in other regions, but I would never want to trade endurance for any other type of strength.

Barring unforeseen injuries, I plan to still be climbing hills and cliffs when I’m 90.

 

[Bigthug87]

Whenever I run my calves always seem to tighten up tons.
I did do alot of running to improve my fitness for my Rugby but when it came to the games my calves would be so tight id be lucky to last a half game with them.

Anyone know why this is. Im about 7 foot and 17 stone. Although thats quite alot im not massively fat and am carrying a fair amount of muscle. As with Rugby players they can weigh as much as a obese person but not be so lol.

Would appreciate anyones tips on how to get more endurance without extreme calf tightness.

Appreciate any PMS

 

[GMDSS]

I practice Bikram Yoga 4 to 5 times a week. Google "Bikram". Hardest thing you have ever done in your life. I've been doing it for years. I could write a book on what it has done for me. I have given up weights and running, and all else. I don't get ill anymore, no matter if I am exposed to flu and all other disease. I used to be sick usually 4 months out of the year with severe lung and uper respiratory problems for many years until I began Bikram Yoga. It also cured my severe acid reflux in a matter of about a week. My mytral valve prolapse is also a non-issue now. I have never been so healthy in all my life, and I am 46. I lost 25 lbs in the first 3 months of the practice, and have kept it off for 4 years now. As a matter of endurance, there is no subsitute. It is endurance training at its finest, without the destructive high impact of running, or the energy blocking of weights.

 

[ww2willysjeep]

I much prefer biking over running. Runnin puts too much stress on the joints. And you can feel the burn just as well