These are the potential game changers that make discussions on the forum about energy totally moot. The price will come down rapidly.

 

I saw it mentioned on the news this morning. Supposedly you charge up the batteries at night at lower electrical rates and than use it during the day when electrical rates are higher. Sounds like a California thing. My electrical rates do not change from night to day time.

Useless toy for those with more money than sense from the sounds of it. Typical Tesla green snake oil. Have to admire them for being highly successful at duping people. I guess it would be nice to be rich enough to be careless with money. That our be our government and be careless with other people's money.

 

My forecast is we'll see one of these in every new home within 10 years, and every home within 20 years, max. I can see these eventually being able to power an average home for days if not weeks at normal usage rates. Currently they are only able to support about 12 hours of standard usage (15kwh).

One huge side effect is that it might actually lead to a purposeful reduction in the grid capacity... they will gradually lessen the grid so that it's able to support sequential charging of these and not much more.

 

Not useless. It could store wind and solar produced power for night / no wind conditions

 

Better batteries are not useless things. However this gadget as I understand it is simply a way to shift load time. The thing is if everyone started shifting their need for electricity to night time at the "cheaper" rates than there would quickly be more expensive night time rates.

It is every the problem with conservation. Conserving only gets you paying more for less.

 

Nobody ever wants to talk about the massive environmental damage caused by the extraction of materials and the manufacturing process of solar cells and batteries.

 

is it any worse then strip mining mountains in west virginia to get coal to fire the majority of our powerplants... is it any worse then sequestering some crazy chemicals into shale rock, potentially contaminating ground water sources... whos to say...

i did a little research on the tesla home battery... i dont think they will sell them, but lease them almost like in a pilot... they cost 13k to make and the lease is only like 15 bucks per month, i think they are primarily offering this to judge the market demand and to have some limited performance tests... i dont think wide scale adoption will really happen for a long while, if at all. Deep cycle lead acid batteries designed for solar storage will get you similar electrical performance in a cheaper package, this tesla stuff might help the lithium ion industry, but i dont know much else will come from it... time will tell.

 

I like the idea of local/distributed energy storage. I like the idea of harvesting "free energy" like wind and solar.

BUT - there will be adjustment/teething problems. Witness the Energetic Fires of Priuses and Teslas after wrecks that short out the batteries, and the rescuers Electrocuted while cutting victims out.

So, some kid gets an idea to recharge his R/C battery from the battery pack in the Basement. Firefighters facing a 2000 Amp Arc at the Battery room of a Residence.

Think of the interlocks, safety devices, and Government interference with implementation of "Reasonable Sized" installations in Single Family Homes: I contend that within a very few years, the gummint will have a cadre of inspectors,, like those for Elevators. Twice a year intrusions by " Inspectors" who will have to have access to your system. Testing. Certification. Mandatory, no-notice, replacement of expensive Batteries/components, like the FAA drops on Airplane Owners.

Put in your own systems soon, and Hope and Pray that such are "grandfathered in" without onerous inspections etc. Hope that Self-installed systems are allowed to be serviced by Harry Homeowner. Hope that Self-Installed systems do not give rise to Insurance Red-Lining, and huge rate increases. Hope that Self-Engineered and/or installed systems must not have to be removed to sell a home. Another Thirty Pages and Three Inspections, Twelve Signatures, and Legal boilerplate to read and assume liability for when buying/selling.

You ever see a Lead-Acid Battery Explosion? Lithium Battery Explosion? I have. I shudder to think about something similar with a molten electrolyte battery, or some even more exotic battery blowing up. Remember, the more dense the energy storage, the more like a Bomb the battery explosion becomes.

 

You ever see a Lead-Acid Battery Explosion? Lithium Battery Explosion? I have. I shudder to think about something similar with a molten electrolyte battery, or some even more exotic battery blowing up. Remember, the more dense the energy storage, the more like a Bomb the battery explosion becomes.

Have you even read about how Tesla has addressed that?

Figuring out a way around this was—and is—Tesla’s green energy coup. Instead of trying to use a single big battery, the Model S links together thousands of thumb-sized ones. The risk for overheating is low because no single battery is creating a huge amount of energy. And just in case, the batteries are strung together with a liquid cooling system, and compartmentalized so any fires that do happen won’t spread.

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/teslas-batteries-will-power-home/


Seems like there's a lot of political spouting off here with no information.......

I don't begin to understand everything about batteries and the Tesla product, but I'll keep an open mind until I learn more.

 

Tesla has only been successful at separating money from investors.

 

Yee of little faith. Let's hear all of your ideas about how to change the face of energy consumption as we know it.

 

I have many ideas, but I'm not as good at separating people from their money. And I do not discuss them in public, I have already had a few "ideas/inventions" appropriated without compensation.

 

So the system they envision would have the battery being charged during off-peak hours when the rates are lower. If everyone had one in their house, there would be no off-peak hours left.

 

And, overall energy consumption would increase.

 

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

P T Barnum

 

A commercially available "turn key" product like this could easily be used on a solar home.

When the sun shines, the battery charges. It then discharges as necessary, either into the grid, or household consumers.

Today, there are plenty of "off-grid" homes doing just that. However, it's not easy, and it's not cheap. I applaud the effort.

 

I'm one of those fools who would part with his money.

It'd be worth it to me for that little bit of extra security. . .that little bit of "I don't have to rely on a power line when things go sideways".

DC power is easy to make. . .and if this battery is rated for 10 years, I can't see a downside.

 

Tesla introduces home battery

Pretty pricey of course, but maybe it'll advance technology enough for someone to create a cheaper version, as it goes. oftentimes.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32545081

 

Love it! The guy is a beast. Elon Musk is our Nikola Tesla/Edison of our modern age.

 

More like P. T. Barnum. "This way to the egress."

 

This is supposed to be a huge game-changer for us off-grid home-owners.

 

For you off-grid folks, yes it could be. For the ones who plan on plugging in to the grid and charging off said grid, no. That will just make the grid more expensive and require a bigger grid, or at least a bigger demand for output from the grid.

 

While it's a little early for these battery systems to be useful to everybody, they are a good idea and will be more important later.

Electricity is about the only retail product in the world with basically no warehouses. Generated electricity has to meet immediate demand almost on a minute by minute basis with nearly no storage of excess production. It's like if toothpaste makers had to predict just when and how often people would brush their teeth and deliver their product to toothbrushes as folks stood at their sinks without the capability of putting toothpaste in tubes, tubes in cases and cases in stores and warehouses. That would waste a lot of toothpaste.

If Tesla's system develops as hoped, it will allow producers to generate at a more efficient, cost effective steady rate while a distributed system of batteries absorbs the peaks and valleys of demand. They may also mitigate the damage caused by storms. If every home had a 24 hour supply of emergency electricity power line repair would be less urgent.

If I lived in a sunnier place, with solar cell prices coming down, I might install a Tesla based system.

 

10kWh unit will retail for $3,500. For the price, I wish it was larger. $3500 in current battery storage would give me more usability.

 

That battery system is an "app" not ownership.
1,500 + $15 per month for 15 years ,and it is returned back to the manufacturer .
Sorry I don't want them in my home .period .
I'm sticking with 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries, and live with it.

 

No disrespect, sir. Can you site a source for this info ?

Thank you.

 

signed up bring it here asap

http:// http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

200 lbs that is 2 of my 12 lead acid forklift batterie cells
power storage i am in...
7kwh. 3,000$ i cant store as much as my solar puts out during the day in my lead acid pack
hope they call me as i want it and another 2kw of solar panels and i will be off grid 100%.
it will go inside a fire proof container on the wall i got the place all picked out next to the inverter charge controlers.

 

'Whole house UPS' does not make much sense.

As I understand things, most people are urban. Urban homes have fairly reliable power grids. They do to need a big UPS.

In my town, we generally lose power a few times every month. Mostly for just a few hours, rarely do our outages last more then 4 days. We had 4 day outages over Christmas and again in January, but no long outages since then.

Most homes here that are connected to the grid, have generators. Some homes were never connected when they brought power to this town decades ago.

The price to own and operate a generator is not very much, and gasoline keeps them running for days.

In my process of going to solar-power, one of our neighbors has tried to talk us out of it. A generator is way cheap then going solar.

For $500 you can get a small generator that can run lighting, refrigerator and computers, for only one gallon of fuel every 8 hours.

For $1500 you can get a large generator that can power well pump, septic pump, and let you flush toilets, but they consume a gallon of fuel an hour. But you only need to run the big one long enough to get water and flush toilets, then shut it off.

Many homes here that use electricity, have one small generator and one large generator. This gives them fuel economy, and they can flush toilets once/day.



Now that a 'Whole house UPS' is available, I do not see how it could compete with generators.

 

According the Tesla's media kit, it *does not* include an inverter. So factor in another $2000 for a quality unit. Without tax credits or other incentives, you're probably looking at $8-10k after installation.

Without the assistance, I don't think most people will see any ROI.

That being said, it comes with a 10 year warranty and seems to be maintenance free.

I can see using one in a SHTF situation in conjunction with a back up generator. Let a 10kw generator run full blast for an hour or so then shut it off and you have power for a few days if you're miserly.

 

It will certainly appeal to those paying tiered rates for power - e.g. charge at night so those in affected areas of California can use the power during the day instead of paying Tier 3 or 4 rates.

It's a great "whole house" UPS for those who must have continuous electrical power for business or medical needs - it allows you to get rid of the multiple UPS units most households already have.

Assuming the talking head analysts were right about leasing it for $1,500 down & $15/month, it will be WAY cheaper than running a generator - a 20kW whole house generator runs up to $10,000 installed & can easily burn $75/day worth of natural gas.

For longer duration power failures use it in conjunction with a smaller generator to recharge even if wind/solar is not installed.

I also like how up to 9 units can be ganged together for increased capacity.

 

... leasing it for $1,500 down & $15/month, it will be WAY cheaper than running a generator - a 20kW whole house generator runs up to $10,000 installed & can easily burn $75/day worth of natural gas..

In my area having two generators is common.

A $500 unit that runs 8 hours on a gallon of gas, can power lights, fans and computers.

Then once a day they run a large $1500 generator for an hour, it will suck down a gallon of gas, but that is when the well pump runs so you can flush toilets, and your refrigerator / chest freezers can all run.

Between two generators you are all setup for under $2500.

 

Could you explain this better r provide sources? Not doubting, but I want to look into this.

 

My father is showing interest in the Tesla home batteries. He thought it would be a good fit with the solar panels he has on the place.

 

It's becoming clear that this is another step of "under my plan electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket" agenda. Step one is the rollout of smart-meters across the country to monitor real time usage. Step two will be widespread, if not nationwide, tiered rates for energy consumption. Step three: this Tesla system will suddenly become very economically attractive when your prime-time rates "necessarily skyrocket". Step four: people will look for any kind of relief from power prices and create demand for small solar installations which will look downright cheap compared to buying utility power. Dear Leader is already pushing to train legions of new workers for this. With more home generation and storage of electricity, step five: the EPA can shut down the coal (and probably nuclear) power plants they despise so much and leave it up to homeowners to supply much their own power. People will fondly remember the days where running the AC and plugging an appliance in without a thought was the norm.