Same thing I learned. Keep it simple and reliable. The tacticool crap does nothing but add weight and make you look like a dork. And unlike you, I don't much care if I bruise egos. :

 

Thanks for the support Mike. Glad I am not the only one that thinks this way or realized this.

 

I was taking the time to chat with one of my favorite trainers discussing guns in general. He teaches a "Tactical" class, which I haven't taken. (Taken pistol and standard Rifle) I was asking him about the "tacticool" and he laughed and said there were people in his standard rifle class that could beat the pants off some of the tacticool guys using hopped up ARs against bolt action rifles, in a SD situation. Then he noted he wished everyone just came in with iron sights and the ability to utilize them, even in the tactical.

Fact is, and I am sadly in this group, most shooters are woefully less capable than the guns they are using. (I am constantly working to improve)

The difference in that $3000 v $800 AR could be used in a lot of training and practice, and it would be far more valuable to the shooters ability.

I always smile and congratulate the occasional guy who shows up running a stock RIA 1911 comes in and out shoots my (and others) fancy semi-custom 1911s.

 

IM 63 yrs old and have lived in my home for over 30 yrs. in the cascade mts of washington state. that said Im a hunter not trophy but just for meat. A few lever rifle a few bolt action and a revolver 357 and a colt 1911. Thats about as tactical as i plan on getting. To old to play RAMBO.

 

I'm kind of an old fart (62) in fairly decent shape. A lot of what I have is old surplus stuff. It's what I'm used to and it works for me. I just want to preserve me and mine, not go on a crusade. Tacticool gear won't replace training and mindset.

 

minimalist is what I like in gear, my AR has a rail still but wears the carry handle and only a VFG.
I stripped my gear down to essentials only, and not only am I faster but also lighter, so that means I can carry extra water or put more gear in my pack for sustainment.

The tactical marketing craze has always been amusing to me........ I stick with what works not what the cool kids are drooling over.

Some people out there have to have the latest gizmo to try and make up for a lack of actual skills or having a small pee pee..........

 

Heck I have had guys show up at the range with the latest tacticool AR with super high power scopes and they aren't even able to hit targets at the 200 yard line. Then I shoot and off in the distance they hear PING! They ask me what that sound was, I tell them it means I just hit my target at 300 yards. They look astonished as I work the action on my 1903 Mark I that I am shooting with iron sights and do it again. :

I swear to god it happened exactly like that on more than one occasion and my shooting buddies laugh every time it does. Hell I have had guys ask if I was a sniper because of how I was shooting and I have to laugh. I am way over weight (but working on it) and I do not shoot as well as the few actual snipers and DM's I do know. Thing is that rifle is my baby, if I am in the mountains it is with me, if I am hunting more than likely I am carrying it or my Winchester 70 in '06. Many many years ago it was worked over as a match rifle and has about the smoothest bolt action I have ever felt. Heck if I had to sell all my guns tomorrow and could only keep one it would be that one.

 

Heck I have had guys show up at the range with the latest tacticool AR with super high power scopes and they aren't even able to hit targets at the 200 yard line. Then I shoot and off in the distance they hear PING! They ask me what that sound was, I tell them it means I just hit my target at 300 yards. They look astonished as I work the action on my 1903 Mark I that I am shooting with iron sights and do it again. :

One of the things that some people don't understand is that when it comes to ballistics and distances....such as those individuals at your range...

Is that 300 yards is not far in the grand scheme of things, it just takes practice, good on you.

 

I think one of the most important things for people to remember (especially on a SURVIVALIST site) is that gear breaks, gets lost, gets stolen, stops working etc. People who have trained with less, honed their mind and body for mental and physical toughness will be the ones who survive. Not those with the best and latest or most equipment.

 

It really comes down to ever tactical advantage has a disadvantave too. Take a tactical light on your rifle for example. The advantage is it puts light on target. The disadvatages are it affects the balance of the rifle and it casts light indiscriminately allowing you foes to easily spot you when it is on. You should check the pros and cons of any and all tactical equipment you consider using. Just because it is a tactical whatever doesn't mean it is necessary.

 

But I loves the red dot :

Started out on irons (for years)....not going back lol....

I carried around an M60 when I was in...so everything else seems light by comparison...

But generally speaking, I don't like a lot of stuff hanging off my weapons....

I've mentioned before that I don't even like slings because they get caught up on all kinds of crap walking through woods and get in the way when I grab the weapon, but they serve a purpose.



I also like folding stock type rifles....a lot

 

Haha oh I understand my friend. I am not just talking rifles though. It seems everything under the sun now has to be 'tactical' or have MOLLE webbing on it or be in 'Flat Dark Earth'. It is just ridiculous. Then you get those guys that are 'tactical' BA's like Travis Haley etc and they market their gear and blah blah blah. Those guys are MILLIONARIES. Of course they will try to make that stuff look like it 'helps' and makes you a 'better' shooter and more of a 'warrior'. Its making them RICH......

 

To me the point of having a carbine was close quarters and vehicle use, now if I wanted a 14 lb weapon I would get an M1A or Garand........ so hanging everything under the sun on the carbine negates the purposes of having one for me.

 

Right on!
:thumb:

Az

 

I absolutely love a good bolt action rifle. There's not a whole lot you can do to one besides a scope and sling. I have never been a huge fan of the black rifle. I know they are useful and all... but there's just something about a bigger heavier older rifle that I love.

At the range 2 months ago I saw a guy with a "pimped out" AK with you name it on it. He was blazing away and barely hitting the man sized cardboard target he had at 25 yards.

 

At the range 2 months ago I saw a guy with a "pimped out" AK with you name it on it. He was blazing away and barely hitting the man sized cardboard target he had at 25 yards.

I see that a lot. It seems like their marksmanship is inversely proportionate to the amount of crap hanging off their gun. The more stuff sticking out in every direction, the worse of a shot they are.

I also see a lot of people who either don't take shooting seriously, or need instruction in marksmanship. These guys couldn't hold a paper plate sized group at 100 yards, but break out the pats on the back like they think they're ready for anything. Even though they miss about half the time at 100 yards.

Occasionally when someone asks me for advice, the first thing I tell them is try shooting without the tommy gun foregrip. That often tightens groups for them just by itself. Those things are just not conducive to a stable rifle stance apparently.

 

Carry that older heavier rifle for 26 miles non stop with an 80 lb pack, you'd see the value of the black rifle reallly quick.

I do agree though a good bolt gun is a must for long range work.

 

very well thought out. I am a touch too drunk and lazy to comment further however.

 

I am jealous. I have class in the morning. Tomorrow I have a date with a glass of Gentleman Jack however. Oh...and thanks

 

Anything I have on a rifle must serve a purpose or it does not get purchased. No fancy optics on the AR, just irons (although I may get night sights for it). It does have a light on it, but it also sits by the bed. Hand guns - one has night sights, the rest are stock. I haven't went to a range very often because there really isn't a need to go because of my location.

The times i've went to a range..... well lets just say I'm glad I don't have to go to a range to shoot.

 

K.I.S.S. works for me with regard to guns and gear. Some people feel more comfortable with more gadgets. They're usually one more thing to go wrong when murphy comes to visit.

 

When I first jumped on the bandwagon, I paid the "tacticool tax". One day, as I was getting ready to place yet another order for gadgets / nicknacks / tactical cupholders, I stopped and figured out how much food I could have ordered instead. That simple calculation ended my love affair with the tacticool stuff.

I still have some of it; it may come in handy some day. But I simplified my rifles and worked on basic marksmanship and concentrated on food / water / knowledge rather than the latest and greatest gear. Still bought some gear after I really thought about it and decided that I do need it.

I'm not annoyed with the tacticool crowd and the guys who have $4,000 AR platforms. But I do wonder if that money could have been better spent. From my personal experience, I know that I could have better spent the money (mostly) that I wasted on tacticool stuff.

[edit] I still have the calculation here - $518 for various crap to fit on the AR would buy:

1,000 lbs of Rice -or-
500 lbs of beans -or-
200 cans of spam -or-
250 cans of chicken -or-
500 cans of tuna -or-

You get the idea. Anytime I think about getting something new and cool, all I have to do is refer back to that calculation.

 

if it gets folks out there shooting I'm all for it

A good AR and a good 1911 are things to behold

 

To OP: - first off, thanks for your service.

Its really funny, I went through the tacticool phase as well a while back - and I have no service experience at all. (Your chest rig description is creepy close to what I had) I'm 34yrs old by the way.

Over the past year or so my "hobby closet" has really changed. Its getting more simple and organized. I guess my biggest issue is that I try and consider so many different possible scenarios, that my gear just gets "over lapped" with cr@p. I just have to really break it down to basics and things start getting simple and organized.

Here's one thing...I'm a rock solid red dot convert. My next purchase soon will be an Aimpoint micro for my AR. They weigh practically nothing and have a 5 year battery life. I have a red-dot on my shotgun as well and really seems to speed things up at the range (the best I can do as far as practice)


I've had this firm belief for a while: Civilians have VERY little resources as far as realistic training. You can do the classes, but they are few and far between (good ones) expensive, and usually require a good amount of travel. Ranges are usually jokes as far as distances and ability (none) to move around or try different shooting scenarios. If its hard for someone to really test out the gear, the stuff just stays around.

I've often considered buying a strip of land here in NC WAY OUT THERE and trying to open a private range. :thumb:

Nice post

 

I've had this firm belief for a while: Civilians have VERY little resources as far as realistic training. You can do the classes, but they are few and far between (good ones) expensive, and usually require a good amount of travel. Ranges are usually jokes as far as distances and ability (none) to move around or try different shooting scenarios. If its hard for someone to really test out the gear, the stuff just stays around.

I agree completely. I've run into 3-4 places around me that won't allow .22lr on the 100 yard line (if htey even have one). Most places simply won't allow shotguns period. If they do it's on the pistol range which is too short, and they limit you to birdshot ONLY. Some won't even let you shoot your own ammunition. Any amount of double-tap shooting gets you yelled at and/or kicked out. It's really hard to do anything but plink at paper and go home.

Because of this, and lack of time/money to travel to REAL training locations/classes; a lot of people simply buy things that are advertised to improve their shooting.
A fancy scope or cool rail accessory is IMMEDIATE gratification once you slap it on your gun. Actually training/practicing and trying to improve your skills is a slow and tedious process for most people. So they gravitate to just buying things that they think will help them out.

 

No apologizes for the Acog on my AR and I'm not giving it up for a Moisin!

 

Great reply brother! There are so many "tactical" options out there it's mind numbing. I will admit I have my share of tactical-crap; some works well for me, other stuff...not so much (but I do let my son use it for airsoft. Somebody asked me about holster recommendations and after the first 10 minutes, their eyes glassed over I then realized that we have really pushed the envelope on tactical marketing. I'm all for options and there will always be that person or group that must try out the latest piece of tacti-cool gear; however you have to personally apply a little appetite suppression on what you "think" you need. I'm all for it; let them do the write up and review and I'll continue to use what works for me...I still enjoy the reviews though:

Everybody needs to find their happy medium and the best way is to start at the bottom...not from the top. I built my son a simple AR and as bad as he wanted an optic, he had to prove it to me...and he did. I finally gave him a spare Aimpoint I had and he decided to keep practicing with just the iron sites as he really like the lighter weight.

There are some good options, accessories and other gear out there, but it's often not just expensive, it's heavy! I'm packing light for this tour, but my last tour was with both M4 and M9 and my typical convoy/travel loadout was insane...any goodies I wanted were really scrutinized as it just sucked humping that much weight around in 100+degree heat.

I think we all need to periodically take a deep breath, relax and re-evaluate our needs, requirements and wants. Then hit the trail, the range...heck, try and just mow your lawn with all the stuff on and see how you feel after an hour in the blazing heat:xeye:

ROCK6

 

Totally agree with the weight thing. I was in a Marine Infantry Battalion in 29 Palms. We had to hump EVERYWHERE. The Arty guys and Tankers got to ride and have their stuff carried. Our unoffiicial battalion motto was "Travel light, freeze at night". LOL

 

I just want to survive, and not look like a poser.

 

WELL im in that. I have an AR with all the bell's and whistle's. Flash light, Aimpoint, Laser,Quad rail,Single point sling, folding frunt and rear sight's. But i know how to shoot it. I also have a K.I.S.S. AR. Plian Jane. I like simple that's why I use my M1 GRAND for the long shot's standered peep Old School. But I like TACTICOOL as well.

 

Great thread Ranger375. You expressed my feelings exactly on the subject and probably with plenty more tact than I would have.

I am very much so a keep it simple guy. Some folks rely on some much kewl gear and such, I wonder if they truly understand what a long term SHTF world would be like.

 

I love iron sights.don't have anything hanging off my rifles.