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SHTF: Everybody Won't Have a Ham License.

45K views 261 replies 91 participants last post by  FortunateSon  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Fact of life for survivalists and preppers:

"Everybody won't have a ham license."

There are many reasons why. Here's a few.

1. They "don't want no stinkin' license" from the government.
2. They don't want a public record of their radio equipment.
3. They don't want their address posted on the internet.
4. They don't want to be on a thieves' target list of "where to get a radio".
5. They don't have the time.
6. They don't have the interest.
7. They don't want to associate with ham operators.
8. They haven't got around to it yet.
9. They already have a ham radio and no need for a license.
10. They get what they need from other communication methods.
11. They can't see any need for a ham license.
12. They want to use cryptography and secret coded messages. Ham radio does not allow it.
13. They don't want nosy hams contacting them on the air or snooping around their BIL/BOL/BOV.
14. They don't want to be embarrassed. :eek:: You hams know what I mean.

My fellow ham operators want everyone to think it is the be-all, end-all of survivalist communications.
Should we believe the hype?

-RadioMaster
 
#2 ·
Good Points

Good points on all, unfortunately I got my license back when you rarely heard anything about survivalist issues. I think the vast majority of people around here have a cell phone permanently attached to their hand so they have no clue about ever needing another form of communications.

One item on your list I will address is #7, it is harder and harder to communicate with some of the ham radio ops you meet nowadays. And I'm not talking about over the airwaves either. Some of these folks have gotten into EmComm so deeply they have turned into nazis. Lot's them are so clueless about communications that you can't help but believe the rumors about ham licenses being sold to those who won't take a test.

Ham radio is but another thing on a survivalist's list of things to have in place when the time comes. Dwelling on ham radio as the only method of communications is not only arrogant but fool hardy as well. Building your entire communications plan upon any one system or mode just means you won't be fully prepared when the time comes.

Ham radio is good but I fail to see why one can't include CB as well. Hell, my little Icom rig has been modded and can run on 27mhz so I'm going to make use of it should I need it. Already starting to accumulate small items from the other systems available to us. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As the sun begins its north pole / south pole flip the HF bands are going through some real doldrums lately so now is the time to see what other communications systems will work when ham is not.

Excellent list by the way.
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Fact of life for survivalists and preppers:

"Everybody won't have a ham license."

There are many reasons why. Here's a few.

1. They "don't want no stinkin' license" from the government.
2. They don't want a public record of their radio equipment.
3. They don't want their address posted on the internet.
4. They don't want to be on a thieves' target list of "where to get a radio".
5. They don't have the time.
6. They don't have the interest.
7. They don't want to associate with ham operators.
8. They haven't got around to it yet.
9. They already have a ham radio and no need for a license.
10. They get what they need from other communication methods.
11. They can't see any need a ham license.
12. They don't want to be embarrassed. :eek:: You hams know what I mean.

My fellow ham operators want everyone to think it is the be-all, end-all of survivalist communications.
Should we believe the hype?

-RadioMaster
I am one that will not have a HAM license but will be RXng after the SHTF.

I might even TX.

I have all my dads HAM gear. He was a 30 year Extra class who is now a silent key.

see you guys on the airwaves. :thumb:
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
I will try to dissect your topic...


Fact of life for survivalists and preppers:

"Everybody won't have a ham license."
Actually - almost no one will have a amateur radio license. our population is only .015 of the total population of the entire country.

There are many reasons why. Here's a few.

1. They "don't want no stinkin' license" from the government.
And the government doesn't want them either!
2. They don't want a public record of their radio equipment.
I have been involved in radio since 1970, and I never had to register a single piece of radio equipment.
3. They don't want their address posted on the internet.
Your amateur radio license requires you to have a working address - where they can reach you if they need to contact you.
4. They don't want to be on a thieves' target list of "where to get a radio".
I don't think that theives are smart enough to even know what amateur radio is, nor would it be worth anything to the average person unless they were going to try to sell my equipment on Ebay.. Anything they got would be 100% profit.
5. They don't have the time.
How many hours a week do you spend watching the boob tube?
6. They don't have the interest.
That is understandable, you have to have a desire to want to talk to strangers on the radio, when all your life you were taught not to talk to strangers.
7. They don't want to associate with ham operators.
That is understandable, most amateurs tends to be senior citizens - because they are the only ones with a education and time on their hands.
8. They haven't got around to it yet.
That is understandable, with the lack of radios and antenna's, most people do not even realize that amateur radio exists or that it is still being used because so many people has resorted to cell phones and the internet.
9. They already have a ham radio and no need for a license.
I don't know what a ham RADIO is, a radio only listens, a transceiver talks and listens.. Maybe you confuse the two..
10. They get what they need from other communication methods.
That is understandable, if a persons budget only allows X amount of dollars and you spend it on a television and a commercial radio and you expect that it will always work, then you already have all your bases covered. But, when the electric goes out, and your devices no longer works, you will wonder if there is other means of communications available.
11. They can't see any need a ham license.
That is understandable, not everyone has a desire to talk, nor can everyone talk on a amateur radio and hold a intelligent conversation without the use of multiple 4 letter words. small minds uses small words is what my first Elmer said to me
12. They don't want to be embarrassed. :eek:: You hams know what I mean.
I know what you mean...

My fellow ham operators want everyone to think it is the be-all, end-all of survivalist communications.
Should we believe the hype?

You can use what ever you want, but if you are not educated in how it works or understand how to set up a transmitter, all you will end up with is a broken transmitter or no available communications for you or your group.

-RadioMaster

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I think you are right, amateur radio is not for everyone, nor should everyone get a license or waste their money on a amateur radio.

I think they ought to use their money to buy food and water and prepper supplies and they should hunker down in their own little part of the world and not invade mine when TSHTF.

Stay out of my world and we will get along just fine.

When you come to rob me, you ought to be prepared for what ever happens next.
I will usually be too busy cutting firewood and foraging for food and doing building and equipment repairs to bother worrying about what is happening on the radio when there is a emergency.
At night, when there is nothing to do, because many commercial services will not be available in a disaster, you will want to have some type of means of communications that you can use to at least listen to what is going on in the outside world.

Having more bands and more frequencies will give you an option that most other people will not have.
How much intelligence you can glean off that mode of communications depends upon who is on the radio and how they were trained to operate in a emergency.
 
#18 ·
I don't know what a ham RADIO is, a radio only listens, a transceiver talks and listens.. Maybe you confuse the two..
Not entirely true.
A transmitter transmits.
A receiver receives.
A tranceiver both transmits and receives.
All of those can be called a radio.

Does the ARRL only listen or involve itself in receivers? They aren't the American TRANCEIVER Relay League so by your definition they must.
That is understandable, not everyone has a desire to talk, nor can everyone
********talk on a amateur radio*********
and hold a intelligent conversation without the use of multiple 4 letter words. small minds uses small words is what my first Elmer said to me

WHAT? TALK on a radio? I thought you said, " a radio only listens". Maybe you confuse the two..
 
#10 ·
I'm not going to get into a land war here. I am a ham operator, general class.

Getting a ham radio and not learning how to use it, tune an antenna and put up an antenna is silly. It is not CB. It is more involved.

Learning NVIS commo will prevent RDF by the way.

Seriously, if you are not a commo guy then HAM may not be right for you but HAM is by far the best long range emergency commo there is. HAM requires you to work. It requires you to learn. Don't belittle me because I took the time to learn this stuff. If you don't know how it works then you probably don't know how good it can be.

I have a very portable radio, tuner and antenna that talks to the middle of Russia from Arizona. I can work every state in the USA. I can gather news, ask questions and will be able to coordinate logistics. If I handed this to a joe off the street, they will probably destroy the radio trying to get it to work.
 
#11 ·
And the best part is - the people who has a license, by law, is not allowed to Rag Chew with YOU,( Repr) - A Unlicensed radio operator.

Even if there was no government to stop them, people like me wouldn't talk to you - because we ( as licensed hams) took the time to learn how to operate and we took the time to pass the tests and if we just let anyone on the air and operate in a non emergency situation - then that makes our license and our efforts a joke.

That was the CB radio mentality of 1978 that turned me away from CB radio in the first place.

The reason why CB radio worked for most people was because it did not take too much intelligence to operate a 4 watt transceiver on AM using a half a meg of bandwidth.

You could pretty much stick up a 9 foot long - quarter wave antenna, or a 18 foot vertical, tune it to channel 11 or 19 with a SWR meter and talk.

The funny thing was, the guys who actually knew something about communications, that lived on top of hills and put up beam antenna's, ended up being the hero's to the guys that couldn't talk across the street.

Some of them even ended up being CB radio sales and service shops - after some training in electronics and they made a good living as long as they were willing to work 20 hour days!
When the price of a new Teaberry, Kraco, Midland mobile CB went to $39.00, and you could buy one in the grocery store - right next to the soda isle, many repairmen just quit and did something else.
You can't make a living trying to fix a $39.00 transceiver.
This is the reason why so many unscrupulous CB radio shops insists upon doing a Tweek and Tune to make you believe that they somehow improved the design of your radio by clipping the ALC and turning up the power and modulation.

If you did those things with a amateur radio, you would be laughed at, and the radios life expectancy would be right up there with a fire cracker on the 4th of July!
 
#12 ·
It worries me sometimes as I have first hand accounts of colleagues get their hands on pretty powerful transmitter equipment from fleabay, know nothing about the ham code, and decide it would be perfectly fine to broadcast anything they want at any convenient frequency:eek:

In the days of SHTF I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing to tune into the local simplex frequency and hear nothing but rap music because some idiot thinks its okay to stream it in that frequency...

If there isn't fines for it there oughta be. :mad:
 
#13 ·
CB RAMBO, don't ever speak for me.

In a post SHTF environment I doubt people in HAM bands are going to be Rag chewing. I pray that there are a ton of people on those bands so we can pass news about what is happening across the world and I could give a rats ass if they are licensed or not.

I personally find people that talk on ham band boring as hell. All they talk about is their radio, their antennas and their hemorrhoids. It bores me to death. I became a HAM as a prep, not to flaunt my license. I did it for the knowledge because it isn't a simple hobby.

CB RAMBO, you are new and need to take it down a notch. Just because all you is spend hours and hours posting on the forum doesnt change that. Your know it all attitude is ****ing people off. If all you know is commo then you should spend some time LISTENING in the other sections because your amateur extra license is not going to feed you.
 
#14 ·
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, eh?

Not every one is going to have a water filtration system, solar shower, extra blankies, fire arm, fire starter, pair of rabbits, precious metal reserve, svelte body or complete work done on their teeth, either.
Sure, it's something that would be GOOD, and believe you me I DO respect ham operators, but you're right, not every prepper will have one.

EDIT: as for communication, well, some folk just don't NEED it. I know it sounds odd, but there's some folk out there that just...don't.
 
#15 ·
Comanche , we were having a chat the other day about our group to group 3/4 way across Texas type comms which includes NVIS. Anyway it was brought to our attention by someone in the business that depending WHO was trying to locate you , NVIS was one of the best things going. That is unless the opfor has air assets of the proper type, (there are mulitiudes of drones, sats, and aircraft capable of quickly pinpointing NVIS transmitter location), you would be in pretty good shape. BUT like he said, just depends on who the other team is, very very few have the ability.
 
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#21 ·
NVIS was one of the best things going. That is unless the opfor has air assets of the proper type, (there are mulitiudes of drones, sats, and aircraft capable of quickly pinpointing NVIS transmitter location), you would be in pretty good shape.
NVIS is the abbreviation for Near Vertical Incidence Skywave. The short version is HF is beamed more or less directly upward, where lower frequencies are reflected off the ionosphere back down to the ground. Higher frequencies pass through the ionosphere and keep going. Reflected energy coming back down arrives from a vertical direction, which is why it is very hard to accurately DF from the ground. I'm sure anyone with airborne or satellite DF capability has other methods of finding me if they want me.

The hard to DF part is helped by the lower frequencies (longer wavelengths) which require longer antennas - go find someone with a 40 meter beam to see an example. 40 meters is about the shortest wavelength / highest frequency band you can get reliable NVIS operation, and even then it depends on solar conditions. In my part of the world I can only depend on 80 ad 160m for reliable year-round use. 60m might be a good option, but I don't go there.

NVIS antennas are generally considered to be below about 1/8 to 1/4 wavelength above ground, depending on who you talk to. So, at 80m, a dipole between about 30ish feet to about 60ish feet above ground will have significant NVIS capabilities.

80m NVIS has been a very reliable way for me to reach a Winlink 2000 server about 100 miles away during daylight hours. Once, as an experiment, we set up a temporary 80m dipole about 6 to 8 feet above ground for net control of a statewide (Washington) ARES net. We could not hit every station, but we did cover most of the state and easily got fills from those who could hear those we had problems with. The dipole was nothing more than about 130 feet of No. 12 stranded wire held up with makeshift PVC pipe supports. The rig was just a 100 watt SSB radio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Vertical_Incidence_Skywave

WilburNil
 
#17 ·
NVIS just holds the radiation pattern down, closer to the earth.

It sometimes improves reception and transmission up to 500 miles, because you do not have as much noise to listen to when you do not have the same amount of signal present in the front end of the receiver.
 
#22 ·
I have no frickin idea what youre talking about other than radio. I have 2 of those duel band transcievers and am wanting to get those boosters Ive heard about to up the signals on them. I dont have a license, I know its a big deal to those that do,but I dont plan on using them unless it all goes tits up anyway. A friend of mine was going to help me out with the programming and I really appreiciated the list some one provided. So thank you for all the info.
 
#29 ·
LOL @ CB Rambo.

Thanks for the laugh. You're right, how dare I operate a HAM in a SHTF situation unless I'm properly trained and licensed!?!?! Oh god, the HUMANITY of it all.

I mean, If ANYONE can just get on there......it'll just be pure pandemonium! Like ANIMALS on the airwaves. :rolleyes:

Me thinks you better get used to unlicensed people on the airwaves in a WROL situation. Otherwise you're going to be, like, SUPER jealous that you can't talk to anyone on the radio. So either get over it, or just get ready to sit in your mom's basement with your super-cool radio and pout. "God MOM, all these NOOBS are on the radio and won't shut up! Tell them to STOP! They don't have the super secret gov't license to let them push the talk button like I do!! It's not fair!!"
 
#31 ·
I agree about the public database... I really don't want my name and address so easily available. It's easy enough to connect the dots with using common usernames between forums... but if I go around posting my call sign you could have my name and address in less time then it takes to copy/paste to Google... hell 60 seconds later you're on the county registry of deeds and you've got my mortgage info, deed, floor plan to my house, even multiple examples of my signature which are all over the deed/mortgage docs... It's no wonder there is so much identify theft these days when it's so easy to find information!

Now, on that, keep in mind, that database only has your name, address and some licensing info. It doesn't give any indication as to type of equipment you have. It's not like gun ownership where there is a legal record of purchases and sales, therefor an implied inventory of what you own.

Implying you don't need to practice with ham equipment is somewhat like implying you don't need to target shoot--Ownership of the equipment is not sufficient, you need to know how to use it.

Now granted getting good at using a ham radio does not take as much repetitive practice as getting to be a good shot, but there is a lot more overall knowledge you need to take in and retain to use radios well. And I don't mean just calling to your locals, you could pick up a CB or those FRS radios for that... I'm talking about meaningful communication with the rest of the globe... you can't just pick up a radio and expect to be able to make a contact hundreds/thousands of miles away without learning first. So if/when the SHTF do you want to be a practiced hand at making global contacts, and therefor able to tune in and speak directly with anyone... or do you want to staring at a complicated control panel and a stack of ARRL operating manuals?
 
#34 ·
I listen into the military channels on my ham radio stuff encrypted ha works well if you know someone that works for them and they go here you go. I never got a license just bought the gear and listen to things I don't prodcast out because I don't need to I just listen to the firestations ect see what's going on around me it's like the news but more local and live. I have the codes for all the emergency dispatch stations ect. Why I have the disaster response book the only one not in there is military channels and encryption but it's interesting to know were they're doing training in the bush and stuff like that.
 
#37 ·
That pretty much sums it up. I'm not a big stickler for rules, but the fact of the matter is I've never met an unlicensed operator that was any kind of operator anyway. There is nothing on the test you don't need to know on the air. Even the FCC regs are good to know, only an idiot doesn't have a working knowledge of the laws he plans on violating.
 
#40 ·
yeah i think you are right about that rm.

some of my reasons

13 too far to go to get the ham test
14 can't get away from work to get to the ham test
15 my cb ssb works fine
yeah OK. Take a look a the propagation maps. Upper HF band 10-11 meters is dead most of the time in the last 11 years due to the solar cycle. It's ground wave only unless the band is open. Short range communications only.
Personally , I would like to know what is happening in California too, in order to gauge the severity of the SHTF situation.

I rarely ever use anything above 15 meters.
 
#42 ·
11 Meters is open practically every day to somewhere.

You can't turn on the chicken band radio most of the times without hearing a 1000 people talking.
I don't know where you get your facts from, but I believe that you are wrong.

The problem with 10 meters is that there is not a pool of knowledgeable people out there anymore to operate on it.
You can't do it with a walkie talkie, and as the older generation dies and moves away from amateur radio, the newbies tends not to try to learn anything, do anything, or buy anything -unless someone is giving something away for free!

Yes, this solar cycle was a bust.
Lot's of activities 2 years ago, but nothing now.
The reason is because there is not any rules forcing anyone to operate there.
Most of the nets takes place on either the two meters or 20, 40, 80, or 160 meters.

6 meters was very popular when I was a kid.
Now there is no one there unless there is a contest.
And, 6 meters was a lot harder to work back then, because of TVI.
With the cable TV of today, you can pretty much operate anywhere you please and no one gives a darn.
 
#45 ·
Sure, I QSO a fun bunch of goof balls in New Jersey at least once a week with honest 5/7-5/9 singnal reports. Antenna is half wave, home brewed wire hung flat but "V'ed" and pointed east. We aren't in the top end of 10 but around 28.500ish. For fun once I'm in the group I turn the juice down till I'm unreadable.

Its less drama than posting from this phone with my sketchy signal LOL
 
#46 ·
As a licensed amateur radio operator, I hereby give my permission to anyone who cares but has no license to operate on ham frequencies after TEOTWAWKI. In fact, I advise it. For whatever that's worth.

I also advise you to become familiar with rigs, antennas, power supplies, and operating practices now, when you have plenty of time and resources, rather than then. And right now, you need a license to do this reliably.

The license may not help some people actually learn anything useful, but in general I'd bet good money that in preparing for ham license exams people will learn something new.
 
#49 ·
1. They "don't want no stinkin' license" from the government.

That's idiotic. Want to see what it would turn into without licensing? Listen to the CB.

2. They don't want a public record of their radio equipment.

Since most of my equipment is with me all the time, there's no problem.

3. They don't want their address posted on the internet.

hahaha I guess they've never checked out "People Finder" or other such service.

4. They don't want to be on a thieves' target list of "where to get a radio".

I pray that a thief tries something.

5. They don't have the time.

Too busy watching tv?

6. They don't have the interest.

That's their problem and their loss.

7. They don't want to associate with ham operators.

Sure, no one wants to associate with some of the nicest people on earth.

8. They haven't got around to it yet.

Again, that dreaded tv addiction.

9. They already have a ham radio and no need for a license.

hahaha My cousin Bubba skimmed over a medical encyclopedia once. Now he's ready to perform brain surgery. No need for a medical license.

10. They get what they need from other communication methods.

Again, idiotic. I want to see them use their tin cans and string to talk around the world.

11. They can't see any need for a ham license.

They don't see a need for a certificate of training? That's good news for my 7 year old niece. She can drive herself to and from school.

12. They want to use cryptography and secret coded messages. Ham radio does not allow it.

Why? Are they playing double naught spy or something?

13. They don't want nosy hams contacting them on the air or snooping around their BIL/BOL/BOV.

There are ways around that.

14. They don't want to be embarrassed. :eek:: You hams know what I mean.

Um, yeah, ok. Embarrassed. Yeah, that's a good reason not to have fun and possibly save yourself or a loved one.
 
#97 ·
Hams Are Not Always Nice People

7. They don't want to associate with ham operators.

Sure, no one wants to associate with some of the nicest people on earth.
@ Wise Owl,

The holier-than-thou attitude of my fellow hams on this forum proves that hams are not always "some of the nicest people on earth".

Watch when a new thread appears about some interesting facet of radio communications. There are always several of those nice people pouncing on the OP to "Go get a ham license." or "You can't do that without a ham license." or "Hey, my ham radio is way better than your CB radio."

Why do all those supposedly "nice people" spit upon all the noobs, preppers, and survivalists?

-RadioMaster
 
#50 ·
NVIS actually tends to put the antenna down close to the earth, to minimize ground wave; the only direction the signal really has to radiate is up, with the ground acting somewhat as a reflector. People raise their antennas higher to get a better ground-wave radiation pattern.
 
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