I would go for the Saiga without a doubt.

It can handle surplus ammo better than the mini and is just as accurate. As a new shooter I would suggest a .22 rimfire but I understand your desire for protection.

A Saiga is a high quality rifle, produced in the Izhmash arms factory that has a thick walled receiver and dustcover. A converted Saiga should not cost $1200. Perhaps 700.

Tom

 

I have both a mini 14 and a saiga .223, honestly, it's a toss up. If you're only going to own one, go with the Saiga. The mini isn't worth the extra money.

I would also reconsider your choice of caliber, and go with the .223. It's an effective personnel and small game caliber, including white tail. The cost of ammo is cheaper, I stock Remington UMC, don't use bi metallic for a number of reasons, but 1000 rnds of 7.62 is $777, and .223 is $425. You can carry more of the lighter round than the .30 cal, which can make a difference in an engagement.

I've got two spare twenty rounders for both bags. For the Saiga, make sure you get the surefire. They're identical to the factory mag, side by side comparison, and fit snugly. The Ruger spare mags are made by Ruger.

In a worst case SHTF scenario, the most likely scenarios are that there won't be any game left after one season. This was the case during the 1930's up to the 50's.

I'm seriously considering trading my .270 Remington 700 for a 700 in .223, to standardize on the caliber and use the .223 bolt action as a sniper rifle. .270 bullets are pretty expensive.

Best of luck to you, from up the way in Wake Forest, NC.

 

1000 rnds of 7.62 is $777, and .223 is $425.

Where are you buying from? I got 1000 rounds of berdan primed non-corrosive 124 grain JHP TulAmmo for $230.00 at Luckygunner. The cheapest I see .223 going for is around $300.00/1000

 

Why not just buy an Arsenal 7.62 and use the rest of the money on ammo? the quality difference is negligible and you dont have to waste time converting it

 

I too would go with a Mini-14.....specificly in stainless steel. You need to use Ruger magazines and that used to be a problem. Ruger is making them again and priced have come down.
If you do go with a 7.62X39 AK you better be careful with surplus ammo. Stay away from corrosive ammo.
I had a Norinco AKM and fired copper wash Russian ammo (bullet and case all copper colored) in it.
I regret trading the gun and the ammo but not for a reason that should matter to you in your situation. The gun is worth much more now then when I bought it and I have not seen that copper wash steel penetrator ammo offered at a gun show in a long time. The problem is that the ammo I had was corrosive. I cleaned the rifle reasonably well immediately after firing it but within a couple weeks the bolt would stick shut. I would have to extend the stock and put the but on the floor and put my foot on the action lever
and push to open the action. It seems that some of the nasty corrosive salts were running down .....out of the gas tube??
I switched to AR's and now have 2.
I also like my stainless Mini-14.
Should the import of cheap 7.62X39 ammo ever stop and it could, I would not want to be dependant on 7.62X39. 223/5.56 is mostly made here and is the round our military uses. Its much more likley to be available one way or another.

 

Saiga's were just selling for $300 at J&G. Arsenals are already converted, and very well, and can be had for under $700. You don't have to convert, just change the bullet feed on the Saiga so it takes standard AK mags. The primary benefit of the conversion is the trigger group, which I think the factory Saiga trigger is about the same as the Mini-30.

Accuracy is comparable in both. Saiga is more durable, and will feed and fire any ammo, don't have to worry about corrosive. Mini-30 is finicky on ammo.

If we ever reach a point where we're not importing 7.62x39, you better believe 5.56 will be effected as well, and the LEO and Military aren't going to share theirs. Stock up!

 

I just got a Saiga at a pawnshop brand new for $250.

The conversion cost me $150. I added a rail system by CHAOS $100, a VLTOR emod stock $100, VLTOR tube $60, US Palm Grip $30, AK-74 style muzzle brake $30 and had the gunsmith chop the barrel to 12.5" and silver sauter the muzzle brake on.

All in all I have a completely custom, tactical AK47 for around $800. That is how much you are going to pay for a Arsenal after shipping & Transfer fee.

Saiga is a way better deal if you are competent enough or have a good gunsmith to do the conversion for you.

 

You promised us some pictures! Let's see it!

 

From a former mini-30 owner.... get a Saiga and convert it, or an Arsenal, or any AK from a reputable builder.

 

Hey, I'm 30 mnutes south of you in Hamlet. As a good friend used to tell me, there is never a good reason to buy a Mini 14. While I'm not an AK fan I would say go with the Saiga over the Mini. Just a tougher rifle IMO. Shoot me a PM sometime and we'll hook up and go shooting.

 

If you've never owned or shot a Mini how do you have an opinion :xeye:

 

Buy two saigas.
2 is 1, 1 is none.

 

Saiga!

Check www.classicarms.us

 

I just recently picked up a Saiga and couldn't be happier. I have shot Arsenal Ak's and was always impressed with their fit and finish, not to mention they are a blast to shoot. The Saiga's receiver is no less in quality minus the need for a conversion. If you look at the conversion as a headache than don't do it or, buy an Arsenal. I happen to love the fact that I can do the whole conversion myself, while making the Saiga unique to me.

I have always liked the Ruger Mini's but can't justify the price for a lesser platform (my opinion). Shooting the Saiga stock was not as nice as the Arsenal's I have shot, the trigger pull was sloppy and the stock wasn't as comfortable for me. The conversion kit is on order, along with some new furniture. When all is said and done I expect the Saiga to perform just as well if not better than the Arsenal.

Here's a shot of her stock (still sexy), I will keep you updated when I finish the conversion...

 

Do you want a superior, better made weapon from a reputable American company that employs thousands of patriots....
Or do you want an inferior franken product made and assembled by mutiple companies that could care less about the US?
In no shape or manner is a saiga on the same level as a Mini-30!
The Mini-30 is more accurate, more reliable, better ergonomically, lighter, is purpose designed for precision optics, and is backed for life by a great American company!
Decision seems pretty easy to me :thumb:

 

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA. Superior? Your saying the mini-30 is superior to the AK47? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Negative sir. You couldn't be more wrong. The mini-30 is a outdated weapon that was replaced over 20 years ago by
the M16 platform. The AK47 goes on and on and on and on and will continue to go on after the M16 platform gets
replaced. They aren't even on the same level. Oh yeah and BTW wasn't it Ruger that did that shady left-wing stuff
a few years back with gun control and all that? Patriots my A$$

 

3) The Saiga can be had for $400-$500, but after conversion, the addition of stocks, rails, mags, etc ranks up around $1200 as well.

Maybe now I could be wrong but wasn't too long ago when I got mine. I got it with the longer barrel [21" i think] and got the folding stock kit [Tapco] and a bunch of other stuff for compliance. Rifle was $550, kit was $160, I re-used the trigger guard. GOt 4 mags [Tapco AK mags] about $12/piece.

The biggest pain was putting in the feed ramp so I can use standard AK ramps. After many nights of trying to drill, it turned out the bit was the problem. A pricier bit and it went through like butter.

My point being, I don't think it will be $1200 for the modded Saiga, it's under $800 and I used Hogue grips that were pricier but more rubbery and fit a lot better.

 

Dang bro, you got hosed on the rifle or I just got REAL lucky. Got mine brand new at a pawnshop for $250. It too had the long barrel. Now I have the barrel cut down to 12.5" and it is getting modded with rail system and the works. It will be under or around $800 when completely finished with VLTOR stock, US Palm grip, CHAOS rail, etc.

 

I would go with the Arsenal.

 

Yep. God would carry an AK47 if he wasn't...well...God.

 

Hey hey hey, why all the Mini-30 hate? :upsidedown:

I am a fairly new owner of a WASR and a long time (15+ years) owner of a beautiful Mini-30.

Like them both very much. However, I was actually looking for a spare Mini-30 and suffered from sticker shock - they cost at least $300 more now than they did when I bought mine (which is wooden stock, stainless barrel, ranch version), so I went with a much more affordable WASR.

I like the look, feel, and handling of the Mini-30 better, and I am more accurate with it. I am looking to put some optics on the WASR though and we'll see what happens.

Much as I love my Mini-30, and though I don't own a Saiga, I can't justify the price of the Mini-30 unless money is no object.

 

The Ruger is not an assault rifle, or even a military type carbine. It is a damn fine commercial quality defensive carbine. It comes with a stainless receiver and barrel and a synthetic stock. It is shorter and lighter than other comparible guns with a garand type safety in the trigger guard. It comes with a really nice receiver sight and you can easily mount a convensional 1" dia scope. But its a pain to mount a rail mount night scope or holo sight.

I happen to like the Ruger and finds hat it is more accurate and handles better and fits me better. They are truely reliable and accurate. But the current price of $700 is about double what a nice commercial carbine should cost.

The Saiga is a commercial quality version of a true military assault rifle. It is not inaccurate, but it is not in the same league either. It is built for durability and reliability in the worst conditions imaginable, which would be mother Russia on a spring day. They make no attempt at making it light and they have never heard about fitting a rifle to an American shooter.

I like them too. But since I value accuracy, I own the Ruger mini-30.

 

My suggestion is since you are on a tight budget why not forget the fancies for now and go with a stock rifle. I bought my Saiga 7.62x39 for $400. for $300 more you have a scoped Savage in 308 brand new that is a remarkably good rifle for the money. That leaves you $500 for ammo. You could buy 1,000 rounds of Silver Bear and 400 rounds of battle pack 308 and still have some money left over.

People get way over sold on the need for folders, red dots, and a bunch of other things when your money could really be better spent on stock rifles and ammo.

Shoot... if you really wanted to buy smart if J&G has Saigas at $300... you could get a Saiga... a scoped Savage... and an NEF Pardner 12 gauge pump ($169)... and still have a mountain of ammo... plus you'd have quite a range of firearms.

sorry... I'm a cheapskate by nature.

 

Wow, a lot of funny posts in this thread.

7.62x39 is cheaper than 5.56 last I checked
Ruger is going to made in the USA and has a better balance to it.

Saiga, is not going to be picky with ammo and it is much cheaper, spare parts are cheaper and easier to get. Mags are generally cheaper, more options to customize and much more.

Both are built well, both will shoot. Go to a gun store near you and see if you can handle both, let the gun pick you.

 

Let the gun pick you.....wow.....that is one of the greatest things ever. I am glad the AK47 'picked' me. It gives me chills just thinking about it.

 

HAHA There are some funny posts in this thread! And CZ...no hard feelings man, sorry if I came off as a d!ck. Its all opinion....It really is a hard argument to say that the Mini is a better weapon than the AK though, of any variant.

Bottom line though, the Saigas are the realest AK out there. The receivers, bolt, and barrel ARE made to mil-spec. Everything else that you put on it is probably going to be better quality than the Russians put on anyways such as my VLTOR stock and CHAOS rail system. In the end, the receivers and internals are all that matter. If they are Russian, the rifle is Russian at heart, and a real Kalash. I will post pics of mine when done and it will be a beautiful combat ready weapon.

And CZ, I am always down to shoot man! We should find some more of us Rocky Mountain men and get a whole range day set up.

 

I'd love to shoot with you if your serious..... Im also here in COS so let me know via pm and we'll set it up. Alot of the members know that I have had a long standing challenge to AK/SKS owners so the feedback would be enjoyable to them also.... I know my little M-30 will surprise you :
Anyway, as you said its always good to meet a some new folk so Im in :thumb:

 

I'm not even reading the 3 pages. Saiga is the only option in this argument.

 

I love in eastern NC.....I head your way quite often(Glendon, NC). If you want to try them out for yourself, PM me. We should on my friends farm about 20-minutes from you.

 

Kalashnikov design beats the Ruger hands down.

 

Yeah. I really don't see where the argument is here? This is almost like asking, who would you rather sleep with. Jennifer Aniston or Rosie O'Donnel.

 

Rosie would try harder.

 

Rosie is anti-gun hypocrite, so I choose Zooey Deschanel.

 

Ranger dude who's rosie bringing and how much leather ..?that said we have both .regarless of what anyone says you really do have more options within the AK range than some people lead you to believe .Truthfully to me the mini comes up quicker but that said if crap went really wrong my wife and I would bring the AKs (and a 12) ..laugh if you want but yes I let the weapon choose me its a bonding moment to me some weapons just draw you from the inside...