Nice idea, but I don't think that it will ever happen. All the people would need to hear is: Repeal the NFA...Machine Guns will become avaliable everywhere... and the sheep will flip out.

You stand a better chance of repealing the MG ban of 1986 than the entire NFA.

 

What do you think of the usefulness of having our representatives fight for it anyway? Get out there and aggressively make the case that it's unconstitutional; it's bad policy; leave it up to the states; whatever.

I totally agree that the chances are slim, but if we don't try, we're sure to lose.

 

alot of the nfa stuff is dumb but in all honesty i dont really want a fully auto weapon in the first place, so the work outweighs the reward for me. i could see me trying to get the sbr and sawn off shotgun stuff repealed though...

 

this is what people were saying in 86.. I don't want one so what the hell. And now look where we are. A cobra full in 85 was selling for about 300 or 400 if I remember correctly now 3000 to 4000 and IMO rthey are still P.O.S

 

I think it is far more likely to add to the NFA a condition where if you meet X criteria then the NFA does not apply to you.

It would be a permit/license/exemption that is not easy to get or quick to do however it gives you the right to be exempt.

The logic is that with the current environment it is not likely that even with a groundswell the perception on firearms will change.

If you put out there that fully vetted and licensed individuals 'only' will have this right then it will be easier to swallow.

Make the cost $500 and a month of testing/waiting to get it however,...

1) You no longer pay fees for background checks
2) You no longer pay fees for class 3 items
3) You no longer pay fees for silencers
4) You still have to use FFAs to transfer weapons across state borders
5) This permit over rides specific State laws
6) You are now liable (felony+mandatory jail time) if you are found exploiting your permit by providing firearms to non-permit holders

You do have to register them and do everything else you do today, you just do not have to pay the fee.

The idea that "Screw that, this is Merica home of the free brave and the Constitution gives me rights by God!!!" will just mean you can sit back angrily in the woodshed believing that as nothing changes.

 

What about just repealing the Hughes amendment, which would reopen the registry?

 

The 2nd amendment was created to protect us from a tyrannical government. It is a savage hypocrisy that we would be regulated by the very institution that the 2nd amendment was designed to protect us from.

I should not have to seek permission to make my gun shoot faster or make it quieter. Criminals do not seek permission before they rape you, murder you, steal from you and **** up your ****.

 

It's not going to happen. Once government get control of you they will not give up that control. They are blood suckers.

 

Let's play a what-if scenario. The task is, you have to imagine a perfect storm of circumstances that would lead to the restoration of liberties by peaceful means, in this case the full repeal of the NFA. What would that look like? What would be necessary to do it?

 

I would like to privatize firearms regulation. Where we have a central business that runs checks and we as gun owners, not the government, can decide who can and cant have a gun and posibly screw it up for the rest of us.

 

Great! Now we'll have some offshore corporation regulating Americans and their use of firearms.

That's about the worst idea I've heard in a long time.

 

The only way freedom loving people are going to tear down oppressive legislation is the same way it was built, incrementally. A good start would be eliminating the AOW and SBR language from the NFA. A few years after that repeal of the GCA. In the same bill to repeal the GCA language specifying regulation of Full-autos is retained by the States, not the citizens, as described in the 2nd Amendment. Then use the authority granted in the Commerce Clause to affirm new Federal Legislation forbidding the transfer of any full-auto weapon between states. This would limit the Feds to going after actual criminals committing crimes across multiple states. Aiding that effort was the purpose of the NFA in the first place.

There would be a few problems with smugglers moving full-autos into States that don't permit them, but those would likely be minimal outside of organized crime syndicates who would receive almost no benefit from my proposed rule changes.

Once the States become effective at regulating the firearms within their respective borders it would make sense to repeal the NFA, but that would take a few decades.

If nothing else, revising the law to remove stupid configuration crap with bunches of permits and taxes and such. Make the law simple and too the point. If crime prevention was the actual intention of firearm legislation it would be enforced by the DOJ through the FBI, not the Treasury Dept. through the BATF.

 

the stamps have been around since the 1930's. THe government just takes and takes a little freedom here a little there. Kind oflike owell's animal farm.

 

I am absolutely shocked at what I have been reading.

Have really only one or two of you people ever actually read the U.S. Constitution and the associated Amendments !?!?!?!

What the h e l l is going on here !?!?!?!

By God if:

.... becuase it will never happen peacefully IHMO

that is the way it has to be, THAT is the way it has to be. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of brave men and women gave their lives to protect my God given and U.S. Constitutionally protected rights as an American citizen.

There is no way on Earth without a fight I will squander them. If YOU want to make it a shooting fight, that will be YOUR mistake to make, but let there be absolutely no doubt I WILL FIGHT YOU.

Americans my big fat pimply butt. Most of you sound like throughly indoctrinated Chinese communist.


OHHHHHHHh This makes me mad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

...
that is the way it has to be, THAT is the way it has to be. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of brave men and women gave their lives to protect my God given and U.S. Constitutionally protected rights as an American citizen.

There is no way on Earth without a fight I will squander them. If YOU want to make it a shooting fight, that will be YOUR mistake to make, but let there be absolutely no doubt I WILL FIGHT YOU....

There is a big distinction between ousting a corrupt government and throwing out the Constitution.

I take it that when Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants", he was not thinking of that blood being shed to overthrow the Constitution, but rather to overthrow a corrupt government.

Many would assert that the present two party system has become a tyranny at least as oppressive as the British rule against which we originally rebelled and that it has perverted most everything the Constitution calls for.

Just think, we once rebelled over a simple tax on tea.

- OS

 

Speaking of the change in political leadership in Wisconsin the GOP swept the House of Reps, The State Senate and the Governors office. So there is a huge push to repeal CCW laws that prohibit any CCW in Wisconsin. We are a Open Carry state that requires no permits but many local muni's have laws against Open Carry.Which is actually against State law.

Now that the political climate has changed there is a big push for Constitutional Concealed Carry like in Alaska , Vermont and AZ. No permit , No finger printing etc so there is no extra cost to keep tabs on it by the State. Texas and Utah are also primed to go Constitutional Carry soon also.

I guess that these changes are more important to me at this point than the NFA stuff. But no matter what law abiding citizens need to reach out to their Government in each of their respective states right now to make these changes while the climate is right and that time is now.

This was almost passed in Wisconsin a few years ago and even Democrats were on board with the constituents but the old Governor vetoed it. It now is looking really promising as the new Governor said he will sign a new law as soon as it gets on his desk.

There is finally hope in Wisconsin after many years of no options for concealed carry it feels like the Berlin wall came down.

 

Nimmer you hit the nail on the head, I was looking for a means of describing that and you nailed it amigo.


I have not heard about the status of CCW for WI but I am desirous of Vermont style CCW. Why the Hell should I need a permit to carry concealed? Do I need a permit to practice my religion/free speach or right to assemble?


The GOP had better get on the ball and NOT become DemonCat Lite by waiting on this. The time is NOW.

 

This is like walking to the bad classes in college as your friends walk into Nude Women Appreciation 101.

In CA there is no chance,... even the other states where there used to be 'no chance' there is a chance now.

Here, no way

 

It is kinda interesting that Ca , NY and Illinois probably the three largest population areas probably will never have a chance.Go figure the places that need it the most will most likely not receive their constitutional rights. That sucks!

 

Well I thought California is going to fall into the Pacific Ocean under the weight of all the illegal immigrants so it does not matter even if there was a chance:

 

It has to do with the politically active young here and the hippies all of you guys kicked out in the 60's.

 

The UN would not allow it.

 

I am disappointed in some guys here. Same old crap and apathy the "good ol' hunters" from the NRA have had over the AWB and the crazy "black rifle gang"...

 

I just think if we went after the NFA, the anti gunners would churn up so much fear and craziness in the general sheeple public that we'd end up LOSING rights. Sure, the full auto stuff is fun, but I'm not willing to give up my rights to own a semi-auto in exchange for an ATTEMPT at repealing the NFA. It'll never happen. Look how close Heller and McDonald were. And they were just giving people back the right to posess a handgun!

 

That kind of reasoning scares me. We won't fight for liberty out of fear they might take even more from us... isn't that how we got the Nazi gas chambers?

 

Well, in general the private sector can only operate by persuading you, whereas the government forces you. So like in a free country if you wanted to support a welfare charity you could do so, and have charities compete for your contributions. But in our country, you pay for welfare whether you like it or not, or else you go to jail!

So the idea of "privatizing" gun-ownership regulation is a contradiction in terms; you would just be creating an entity with a privilege that is unique to government, which is the privilege of using force to make you do stuff they want you to do.

 

Well, in general the private sector can only operate by persuading you

The rest of your reply I have little argument with, but the above I disagree with.

Talk to people in my neck of the woods who have had their land taken from them by natural gas companies. They weren't persuaded. They were forced, with government help, of course. But it was clearly the energy companies do the forcing.

 

i think an honest attempt to repeal the nfa would do far more to hurt gun rights than help them. im being very pragmatic tho. maybe later on but definately not now. i would wager even most gun owners would be against a full on repeal of nfa. i dont see a huge logical problem with it because full autos arent illegal just heavily regulated. constitutionally dont think its quite right. i would love a full auto but would have no real use especially defense. to many people would be put at risk.

 

Wow comments like this just go to show you that the mainstream American is just fine with ****ing away their rights.

 

Gee, I don't know guys. The statists are not being bashful about taking our rights away from us. The government takeover of health care was not a dinky little incremental step toward socialized medicine -- it was a gargantuan power grab that covers one-sixth of the nation's economy, and that's just the part of that behemoth legislation that deals with health care.

"Let's not make too much noise or they might take more to punish us." How much are we going to let them have?

I think it's time to say "enough, we're done with this. We're taking our liberties back."

 

edit: double post

 

Let alone Mexico blaming us right now for supplying guns to the Cartels.

Even if it is 100% proven untrue (like the 90% comment Obama made in April) it will still stick in people's minds and the damage will already be done.

There are less and less people that own firearms, know them and shoot them. There are a lot of people that have 1-2 guns, kinda know them and rarely shoot them. Then there are even more people that have never owned or shot a gun.

You can't get those last 2 groups going on firearms since they simply do not understand them.

 

Just force background checks and register the guns.

 

desirability? Extremely high
likelihood? I won't hold my breath.

I tell ya, I'd be happy if we could get the unlawfully passed Hughes Amendment repealed, along with at least the worst parts of the GCA. Certainly, I'd like to see the thing ripped wholesale out of the legal code, but I'll take partial victories, too. Certainly the time is right to oppose the "sporting use" test of the GCA for firearms imports. Also, it should not be hard at all to argue against the prohibition of registering NFA firearms and paying the tax. For those that don't know, the GCA actually made it illegal to register NFA firearms or to pay the $200 tax on them after a brief amnesty period. So, for example if your great uncle passes away, and you find an old Thompson hidden in a trunk in his attic, you cannot register the gun with BATFE and pay the NFA tax- you'll be lucky if confiscating it is all they do. It shouldn't be that hard to get the law changed to: if you are found to have an unregistered NFA gun or silencer, instead of going to jail, you have to either pay the tax or give up the weapon. That sure beats having ninja-suited thugs breaking into your house at 2 in the morning and shooting you in the head.

Don't get me wrong- I'd prefer if every firearms law on the books (especially the federal ones) were repealed tomorrow, and I'll continue to fight every day to help make that come to pass. Still, I think it would be a victory if we were to get the freeze on the supply of machine guns lifted, which repealing the Hughes amendment and the sporting use test on imports would do. If that happened, we'd be able to import cheap fully auto AKs, and American companies could again make machine guns for civilian use. I have no doubt that within 10 years, at least one new incredible design came out it, too. I'm sure there are still minds like Browning, Maxim, Kalashnikov and Stoner around, and they just need a viable market to get their creative juices flowing.

 

I'd repeal all small arms regulation. If you can afford it, and it's man portable have at it.