To answer your questions quick NO, UH UHH, NO WAY, DON'T EVEN TRY THAT. Now as for why, smokeless powder [as in a .44 mag] burns much faster and produces far greater pressures than BP [or approved replacments] these pressures will blow up a BP gun. The primer is also different as a boxer type has a built in anvil and requires a strike by a firing pin to work. A percussion cap is driven onto a nipple by a flat hammer. Some newer type inline rifles use a shotgun [or type 209] primer and are therefore built with a firing pin. some even have kits allowing you to switch back and forth. As for dumb questions, those are the ones not asked, just cause I asked the same things 40 years ago doesnt make me less dumb. Don't be affraid to ask as dumb questions are te only ones I'm good at answering. Now 777 [Hogden Tripple Seven] is a might stouter than BP [about 15% by volume] but still approved for use in BP guns. As for alternates to Percussion Caps there is a device called a Tap-o-cap that makes them from beer cans, and paper capgun caps. Also some plastic ring style toy caps will sorta work. Howerever these cap replacments are more corrosive than regular caps and require more clean up. A good solvent for use in BP clean up is to mix equal parts hydrgen peroxide [3%] Isopropyl Alcohol [91%] and Murphys Oil Soap. I only mix up a cup and half at a time and put in a spray bottle.

 

Yeah what he said!!!

Never, ever use any type of powder other than Black Powder or an authorized substitute in a BP gun. The results of not doing so can be quiet disasterous. I personally know of a couple of idiots who have and they are quiet lucky they had shooting glasses on and was wearing leather gloves and by some act of God didnt ruin their hand beyond repair or loose their eye sight.

If your gun uses primers, use 209 shotgun primers only. Others may fit but different primers will create different light off charatristics and this has a profound effect on the pressures that burning powders create.

 

For the first time in history there is consesus on survival boards.

The answer to all of your questions is NO!

You can get away with a lot but you can not get away with using modern componants in guns specified for BP.

Also be aware that different countries use different size primers in their cartridges so you can not even count of salvaging military componants for modern guns.

I would recommend you buy a Lyman black powder handbook whan you buy your first BP firearm. They have history, safty information and guidelines. It is money well spent for information you can rely on.

Now after saying all that has been said; There are contraptions being used that enable one to use Small Pistol primers in a sidelock rifle. Some in line rifles use shotgun primers, as already stated, and there are muzzle loaders that are designed to use smokeless powder. You absolutely must learn your info and watch your Ps and Qs with this technology. It is not like modern guns where your bigist worry is the price on the ammo box.

 

Lemme see if I can answer these...

1. You can NEVER use smokeless powder in a black powder weapon. Smokeless powder builds up way too much pressure and you would destroy your weapon, and possibly, yourself. You must use black powder only, or a black powder substitute such as Pyrodex or Hodgdon 777. Anything else, and you invite disaster.

2. That's an interesting question about adapting a rifle primer as a cap. I've not heard of anyone doing that. Since the diameter of a rifle primer would differ in size from a rifle or musket nipple, I would venture it might not be a good idea to do. Caps are cheap to buy, and you can buy many of them at low cost. If you prepare properly, you won't have to risk improvisation.

3. A black powder weapon, in my opinion, would be used more to subsidize your food supply. In other words, why waste commercial ammo on hunting, when you can do the same thing with a black powder rifle, and a whole lot cheaper? Save your rifle ammo for defense, and hunt with your smokepole.

And remember, "No question is a dumb question. "

 

2. That's an interesting question about adapting a rifle primer as a cap. I've not heard of anyone doing that. Since the diameter of a rifle primer would differ in size from a rifle or musket nipple, I would venture it might not be a good idea to do. Caps are cheap to buy, and you can buy many of them at low cost. If you prepare properly, you won't have to risk improvisation.


And remember, "No question is a dumb question. "

At one time there was a "converter unit" that would allow the use of centerfire primers in place of percussion caps. Markesbery I believe. Don't remember if it was for their rifles alone or available for others as well.
CRS ya know.

 

For the first time in history there is consesus on survival boards.

Now thats just too dang funny! Oddly enough its also so true. Just goes to show great minds think a like...

3. A black powder weapon, in my opinion, would be used more to subsidize your food supply. In other words, why waste commercial ammo on hunting, when you can do the same thing with a black powder rifle, and a whole lot cheaper? Save your rifle ammo for defense, and hunt with your smokepole.

Funny you should mention that....as its the main reason I went out and got a BP rifle. Since I reload anyways, I got one with the accessories to enable me to use shotgun primers that I already keep on hand by the Gazillions. I also already have 44 magnum bullets (jacketed and I cast my own as well) on hand as well so all I really needed was the proper powder and sabots to rock and roll. For powder I keep the black powder substitutes on hand such as Pyrodex and Blackhorn. This choice was more for a bit of a margin in safety as opposed to practicality since I was planning on storing quiet a bit of this on a long term basis. I buy it loose as opposed to using the Pyrodex pellets since I get more powder for my buck that way and can more easily tailor a load to my specific needs at hand. It is slower reloading though I will admit, but then I am looking at why I got it in the first place.

Another added benefit to the rig is it allows me to take advantage of Black Powder Hunting season here and get out in the field a little more and enjoy the hunting season a little longer. The more time you spend out in the field the more you get to practice your skills and the better you become and the more you enjoy the out doors. Gotta love it when a plan comes together.

 

Now thats just too dang funny! Oddly enough its also so true. Just goes to show great minds think a like...



Funny you should mention that....as its the main reason I went out and got a BP rifle. Since I reload anyways, I got one with the accessories to enable me to use shotgun primers that I already keep on hand by the Gazillions. I also already have 44 magnum bullets (jacketed and I cast my own as well) on hand as well so all I really needed was the proper powder and sabots to rock and roll. For powder I keep the black powder substitutes on hand such as Pyrodex and Blackhorn. This choice was more for a bit of a margin in safety as opposed to practicality since I was planning on storing quiet a bit of this on a long term basis. I buy it loose as opposed to using the Pyrodex pellets since I get more powder for my buck that way and can more easily tailor a load to my specific needs at hand. It is slower reloading though I will admit, but then I am looking at why I got it in the first place.

Another added benefit to the rig is it allows me to take advantage of Black Powder Hunting season here and get out in the field a little more and enjoy the hunting season a little longer. The more time you spend out in the field the more you get to practice your skills and the better you become and the more you enjoy the out doors. Gotta love it when a plan comes together.

I guess I'm a traditionalist. I use mostly FFg powder in my flintlock, and touch it off with FFFFg primer. Nothing like the real thing, huh? My problem is, you cannot fire Pyrodex pellets from a flintlock. ( One exception, the T/C Fire Storm....but you still need priming powder in the pan. ) I generally use about 90 grains behind a 50 cal sabot. More than enough to drop any deer or other varmint.

With commercial .30-'06 rounds priced anywhere from $15-$45 per box of 20, it's cheaper to hunt with a smoke pole. ( I reload my '06 rounds, so it's a little easier. )

 

Blackpowder does not offer anything converntial cartridge arms doesn't. All of them require stuff. You need a source of lead, you atleast need some stuff to make blackpowder (mainly sulphur), and you need a source of ignition.

The only thing truly made own your own are bows and arrows.

Just get a good supply of ammo, then you don't have to worry about running out. In a severe last case scenario, a few thousand magnum primers, a lead cast, and a lever gun can be used as a blackpowder back-up.

Now if you want to have some fun at the range, thats ok. Or, if you want to extend your big game hunting season, that great too. I'd much rather have a bow before a muzzleloader.

A reloading setup can greatly expand your shooting capabilities. Primers and powder are pretty cheap. If wisely purchased, bullet head can be found for about 10 cents each. I buy remington bulk packs at very good price. I can reload 20 .30-30 rounds for about 7 bucks. 50 .38 specials can be loaded for about 8-10 bucks.

 

Thanks all. I thought it was wishful thinking but I didn't want to dismiss the idea without verifying it with experts.

 

You still have not verified it with "experts".

You will need to go somewhere beside Survivalboards to find experts on anything. They let anyone with a computer post here.

 

Without casting your own bullets, blackpowder firearms really do not save much money at the range. On a tight budget 22lr goes a long long way. Make sure you have a quality 22lr rifle to appreciate the round.

 

To ask something one have at least to know something. I know nothing. I can't even make up a question and call it stupid question. My knowledge on this is zero to the left. There is no such a thing as stupid question.

 

I was a school teacher for 35 years. I guarentee you the "No such thing as a stupid question" thing is pure crap.

There's all kinds of stupid questions.

The stupidist being the guestion that is asked after it has already been answered. You see it all the time and espically on firearms forums.

"What color is a red baloon?"

"It's red."

"No that's not what I asked, I want to know what color a red balloon is? If you have nothing constructive to add don't say anything."

 

Go with a flinter " them new modern thingys you run out your done I shoot and prime with FFFg black powder " And as far as the bow and arrow idea ?? no thanks you run out of arrows your done .. have fun and be careful Think NW tradegun you can shoot shot of round balls the best of all survival guns

 

Actually Savage made a BP rifle that could be used with both black powder or smokeless. It was the rifle not the consept that made it work. Modern powder BURNS. Black powder EXPLODES. Storing Bp presents a host of problems. A contender in .223 and reloading componets is the route I chose. Bricks of rifle primers can be purchased with ease.

 

Actually Savage made a BP rifle that could be used with both black powder or smokeless. It was the rifle not the concept that made it work. QUOTE]

The rifle was actually a Savage 110 with the breech pluged with a 209 primer recepticle. It was a modern rifle with a ram rod so your could load from the muzzle.

It proved a very tricky concept, due mostly to the human stupidity eliment, and many blew up.

While BP "explodes" it does so in a slow and forgiving manner. You overload a bit and even the cheapest ML will forgive you. 10 gns +- is not big deal.

Not so with modern powder. Modern powder "burns" fast enough to blow your butt up with even a modest mistake or if you grab the wrong can of powder.

The problem encountered with the Savage ML rifle are quite evident in this thread. We keep saying BP is an option, not a first choice, and people keep telling us to forget BP and buy more of everything from a SS pistol in rifle calibers to tatical .22 rifles.

Seems that not only are there stupid questions, there are also stupid answers to questions that have not been asked.

 

{Storing Bp presents a host of problems. }

I have 2 cases of fffg on hand at all times i really dont have a problem storing it , I pour my own round balls and knap my own flints , I have been doing this for years I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope the powder don't explode

 

Local fire marshal told me the best way for us peasants to store it was in an old fridge that no longer works. Put a hasp and padlock on it. 50 pounds is the legal limit, which is a lifetime of powder for most folk. 1 pound a year should keep you fed.

Nice thing about BP is that it can be used for other applications. ML artillery, mortars, blowing stumps. No blasting caps or freaky gear needed.

Just having it around gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

This is just and only MY opinion. But I have been shooting flinters for nearly forty years.

That said, if you will learn to shoot a flintlock, cast your own ball, and learn to safely make small quantities of Black Powder, you can live forever on one.
Percussion firearms simply substitute all the separate pieces that make a cartridge, less the case itself, for a round of ammunition.

They are great hunting rifles, one shotters will teach you to get close, and AIM. They also let you save all your cartridges for predator (two and four legged) control.
Consider them a back up, and a major step past archery equipment.

ISS

 

Amen. Thats it, just AMEN