It boils down to what you really want in terms of an M14, and what each company you listed can deliver.

LRB Arms and Fulton Armory will custom build to your exact specifications. ( Dont have any exacts with JRA., but SAI does or used to have a custom shop.)

Example: Chrome lined bbls: If that is a priority for you, LRB and FA can deliver the best CL tubes for this type of rifle.

Then there is the forged vs cast debate. Debunked by those that use both...lol.
Forged recievers = LRB and JRA. Cast = FA and SAI

Note: JRA uses Bula Defense recievers for thier builds...last I looked.

M14 service rifle parts: Do your homework here, but there are several companies that make components that exceed " GI " parts in several areas.

With that said, I currently have 2 LRBs, an SAI, and another custom built using a Norinco M14 receiver. ( A 500 dollar " beater " that was built in 2003)

As to your 1st question.....
1. Big budget= LRB, FA, JRA, and SAI. .....in that order.
2. On a tight budget= JRA and SAI in that order.

Note: Jon Wolfe can also build you a fine M14.

What are you lookin at for an " end state"?
Match rifle, GPR, " authentic M14 service rifle clone, etc.....?

Edit: My next M14 will be a JRA M14 " paratrooper "..... simply so I can evaluate it up again SAI and LRB.

11B

 

Check DCM. I picked up an M1 25 years ago from the.

 

You will NOT get an M14 via the DCM / CMP.

I have no issues with the Springfield Armory I have. The only reason I might ever consider one from Fulton Armory is because of Walt Kulick. Clint is a....well, let's just say having dealt with him at Camp Perry I am very underwhelmed. Plus, you have the significant price increase for FA which in my opinion simply isn't worth it.

OP needs to define the intended mission for the rifle. I'll wager the Springfield Armory has a configuration that will meet the requirements.

 

WAY BACK when I was a competition shooter, the Springfield Armory M1A A1(original shorty, guerrilla gun, whatever) with an 18" bbl that came with the BM59 side folder stock was my "light" rifle. I put it in a GI glass stock and then proceeded to put over 40,000 rounds through it shooting steel and paper. The ONLY part I changed in the gun was the extractor spring was getting a little weak.

To me the M14/M1A is the greatest weapons platform ever made and I guess it is because I have so much history with them. I am alive today because they have always worked in all conditions when I needed them to. My own experience with them in the civilian mode has always been with the SA guns so I cannot put forth an opinion on the others, although just out of curiosity when the Norincos came out I dabbled with one for a couple years, but never for serious or competition. It felt rough and unfinished in comparison.

Then you have to remember I have had no need to buy a new M1A in the past 20 years, they will run forever.

IF it was end of the world and I could only have one for all occasions, it would be the M1A always always always.

 

Yup Norinco M14s were" unfinished "when they hit the states.

Here is a " finished" version.......below. ( Built it to be a general/ all purpose rifle for close in to distances in excess of 500m.)

About the only thing left from China is its forged receiver and 1 piece oprod.

A few notes:

1. I had the connector lock converted, as I didn't want to use the popcycle method with an M14 synthetic stock. ( This is a year around hunting, hog eradication, rifle carbine course, 3 gun, RnG , DMR, shtf shootin stick that sees alot of use in all types of weather.

2. Synthetic stock is not bedded, as this is not a necasary item to get them to shoot well, provided the stock and handguard are properly fitted to the action. I filled in the selector lever hole, and replaced the M14 " flipper" but plate with another from an M1Garand. Cleaning kit fits inside buttstock where it belongs.

3. The bbl was made by CRiterion ( bought it thru LRB) . It is an 18.5 inch standard contour match quality, 1:10 twist chrome lined tube that shoots just as well now at 57000 documented rds as it did when first built.

4. Bolt = TRW along with trigger group. ( Headspace= 1.6325. TG worked up by Ron Smith ( Maxx2)

5. Sights: USGI M14 rear sight with std rear sight aperture and Smith Enterprise gas lock hooded ( HK style) front sight. ( Circle of doom in a reliable 7.62x51mm semiauto)
.062 front sight post adjustable for elevation instead of windage, and can it in the dark after another modification. )

6. Replaced the flash hider/ front sight assembly with a direct connect Vortex flash hider. ( Less overall parts, flash hider works well at what it's designed to do at 25 % more on average, and less overall length. ....Rifle is 39 inches overall .....which is less oal vs an M16A2 and a tad less than 1 lbs heavier vs same M16A2.

7. Gas system = SEI warfighter.

8. M14 sling that I utilize a bit different vs common folk.....lol.

9. Optics: After trying on several for size, I prefer the gen1 ARMS 18 split rail mount. Because China reverse engineered the fricken M14, thier receiver dimensions are a very close match to M14 service rifles. In short, optics mounts designed to properly fit the M14 will match up well with the chineese versions, including the Polytechs. I replaced the forward tension screw with a fro t sight set screw......as the latter fits flush with the mount, thus allowing one to remove the handguard without removing the tension screw at all.

Pics below show some close ups of this rifle and the other rifle in photo = my M1A A1 ( 1983 all TRW) Bush rifle after I sold the folder stock for a small fortune years ago and bought a truck load of GI synthetics, birch, and walnut stocks from " Freds ".
Note: M1A A1 sports the common SAI ( Wilson) non chrome lined 18in standard contour , 1:11 inch twist bbl. The current scout squad will have the same, and of the 20 or so I have fired or witnessed being fired, the scouts all shoot well.

11B

 

Figured I should keep the Norinco/ SAI M1A-A1 in its own post and keep my LRB Arms post here iot avoid confusion.

Both my LRBs are built along the same lines as my Norinco above. ( The china girl is the red headed step child that I have been using as the guinea pig, and still trying to find another rifle that can replace the M14.....)

Anywhoooos. .......

1st up is the LRB M14SA " Tanker".

It was built as an exact duplicate to the M14S in my pic heavy post from before. Only difference is this one uses the SEI D18 gas lock front sight assembly.

2 pics of this rifle below, and before I added an Arms18 mount to it. ( Trying out the Ultimak M8 at the time.)

I only share 1 pic of my LRB M25 tanker. ( The new kid on the block here.) The " scope mount" is an integrated part of the receiver in this case. It blows all other mounts away with exception of the ARMS 18.

Note: Pic shows the standard set up that the M25 sells with. They also have 2 versions of an extended rail. ( 0 and 20 MOA) I couldn't decide, so I bought both when rifle was being built.)

Note: This rifle is using an LRB bolt. Time will tell if they are as good as TRW bolts.

Trigger group is a Bula that is unmodified. ( I have at least 5 complete trigger groups per individual rifle, and lost count of all the other parts I have in the parts bin.

Bbl = Same as the other 2.

Pics 1 and 3 = M14SA. Pic 2 = M25.

Note the M14SA is one of the closest to actual M14 recievered rifles you can find, and in some areas, exceed the old war horse. It would be a good choice for a " GI" build, as well as a General purpose use every day rifle, match build, or a " Socom/ EBR kind of build.

M25 would be a great choice if one wants optics as well as iron sights.
Note: Bula Defense makes 2 receivers that are similar to the LRB M25. One sports a scope rail with iron sights ( M21 DMR), and the other is without iron sights ( XM21). I Dont know if JRA uses either of those, but Jon Wolfe does.
Note: Fulton Armory has a chrome lined 16 in bbl if one is lookin for a shorty build.



11B

 

Personally, since JRA now produces BM-59 clones, I would opt for one of them instead of an M1A/M14 clone.

https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm-59-semi-auto-rifle-308-caliber
https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm59-magazine-20rd-308-762x51

Rifle and 26 magazines for $2,000, give or take.

Just my opinion.

 

Major issues with these guns.
Maybe some do work, maybe the kinks have been worked out.
I wouldn’t trust James River or Classic for that matter.

First time I think I’ve disagreed with a post of yours...

 

Springfield Armory is the way to go. Check out their web pages and all the different models that they have available for sale.

What I like about their rifles is that the rifles are so accurate and can make the long distance shots. It is not unusual for rifle shooters to use scoped SA rifles for making 1,000 yard shots at all.

I have a pal who keeps 3 of the SA rifles at his house so he can shoot across a small valley to hit some old water heaters just to stay in practice. He swears by them.

 

I was not aware of the Mosin scam. Thank you for wising me up. Guess I will have to just have to have one converted myself. Main thing is the Tri-comp. Used to be able to find them threaded with standard US barrel end threads. Have not seen one for a long time.

 

+1 on classic being shady.

After my experiences ordering from them when I had my C&R they are off my "will order from" list.

Century OTOH: While they sometimes have drunk monkeys building guns will exchange (fast) or refund reddily.
I'll order from them anytime. (Although I DID once have to try 3x before I got one that worked!)

 

They call the Norinco M14 clones M305's here in Canada. I just purchased an M305 A which is a 7.63 X 39 version. I've had it since Oct and I'm taking it up to my cabin to shoot this weekend. I like it it because it uses AK mags and drums. It's a much better rifle than a SKS.

 

I have two Springfield Armory M1A's. I have a basic Milspec and a Socom 16 in a Sage EBR stock.

I have had one issue with my Socom when I was trying to install my EBR stock and it turn out to be a slightly bent Op rod.

EBR stock tolerances are pretty tight. I sent it to SA and they replaced the Op rod and installed everything in to the EBR stock.


If I were going to buy another M1A, it would be a SA and it would be the Scout Squad.

Their customer service is very good in my opinion.

 

I have experience with the Norinco and Springfield.

The Norinco was years ago.
Nothing special, worked ok, I traded it for something I can’t remember now.
IIRC the flashhider was fake?

My current M1A is the Loaded Walnut parked.
I don’t shoot paper, haven’t for some time, but it will eat up 6” steel plates at 100 yards and 8” at 300.
That’s all I’ve asked of it.
I’d buy another if I felt the itch.

I guess it depends on what you want the rifle to do.

 

I have experience with the Norinco and Springfield.

The Norinco was years ago.
Nothing special, worked ok, I traded it for something I can’t remember now.
IIRC the flashhider was fake?

My current M1A is the Loaded Walnut parked.
I don’t shoot paper, haven’t for some time, but it will eat up 6” steel plates at 100 yards and 8” at 300.
That’s all I’ve asked of it.
I’d buy another if I felt the itch.

I guess it depends on what you want the rifle to do.

I have a Springfield loaded, I shot paper when I was working up a load for it and like you I mostly shoot steel plates. The range I shoot at is laid out in meters from 100 to a 1000, the 20" plate at 500 meters is fairly easy to hit the further plates are a bit more challenging.

 

I don't have the answers to the OP technical questions. But the OP is on the right track.

The M14/M1A platform is a premier top shelf battle tested and proven rifle. It's obviously based on the "best battle rifle ever made" at the time, the M1 Garand. It has been sinced significantly improved with smaller caliber, weight reduction, size reduction, and bigger detachable mags.

While it was removed from MBR status due to bean-counter reasons, it's still in high demand in combat. This rifle has almost no equal and about the only peer for the money is going to be the other battle tested and proven FAL.

I have a few Springfield M1As that would go with me to the end of the world... That's a lot of firepower for about $1500 (basically a rent or mortgage payment for most people).

 

I own an FAL and I've owned an M1A. The M1A is a more accurate rifle but the FAL is more robust.

 

Has Springfield got their act back together yet? Back in the 80's and early 90's, they were pretty good. The last half dozen or so I bought (rifles and handguns) back in the late 90's, early 2000's, were basically junk. I finally wised up and quit buying them then, and havent gone back.

I wouldnt buy one now without being able to shoot it first.


As for their CS department, I wasnt at all impressed. For one, they flat out lied to me on a number of things when I contacted them about problems with my SOCOM. They swore up and down that the stock wasnt a done over GI fiberglass (it was and poorly done at that), and that the rail was Picatinny spec, which it wasnt.

When I hear a lot of "their CS department is great" reports for different things, I tend to look at it as a negative more than a positive. I understand their being there and why, but I also have to wonder, why are there so many reports, and why are they having to send their guns back?

Seems to me, the dealings with the better companies CS departments are less known because there is less need of their services to know.

 

LRB or a norinco based build

 

Thanks everyone.

To those who asked, there is no real mission for the rifle. I'm just interested in getting an M14/M1A mostly for fun and target shooting, but is built well enough to fit the role of a battle rifle if I need another.

Currently I'm content with my current manual of arms as my primary "go to war"/SHTF rifles. I've got several AKs and RPKs in x39 and one in x54R as well to fill the .30 caliber role, so I don't need this gun to fill any particular role I've not already got covered.

@Jerry D Young

The BM-59 is also a gun on my list, thanks for reminding me of it. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to buy one there's still a few on the market at a reasonable price.

 

Swiss, in that case just get a plain old stock SA and as many magazines as you can find or afford and call it a day. No need to overthink. It will do the job just fine.

 

Yup, no need to reinvent the wheel. I can't come up with a reasonable and realistic situation where an M1A would be inadequate but XYZ would have made a difference.

The M1A is a top tier battle rifle and the .308 is proven out to 1000+ yards. 20 rounds in a ~10 or so pound package, maybe 15 pounds fully tactical outfitted...

 

Thanks. I guess you two are right. I do tend to overthink my gun purchases, but in this case the extra $1,500 or so could go a long way towards more ammo, parts and magazines.

@Jerry D Young

If you're still keeping an eye on this thread MidwayUSA has new/unissued Italian Surplus BM-59 magazines for $34.99. I'm not sure what you normally pay for magazines but seeing as how the original price was listed as $60/magazine I figured it'd be worth passing along. They were running free shipping too but I think that's over with now.

 

If my memory is correct, you already have a 7.62x54R Vepr and some mags and a lot of ammo for it. That's a near equivalent weapon and capabilities. If money is tight, just wait and watch deals. In the next 6-12 months the right deal with come along; it always does.

In the meantime, go shoot up that ammo in the Vepr and hone your skills.

 

A side note regarding new in wrap M14 magazines from online vendors that I have verified as to what they are selling is the real deal.

LRB Arms of course sells actual Checkmate Industries ( CMI) current manufactured magazines.

Brownwells is the same.

Springfield Armory Inc. ( They buy them direct from CMI without markings, add thier own markings to the mags and go from there.

One of the better online sources I have used = 44mag.com ( Reasonable prices, and they back up what they sell.)

Note: I have used every type of CMI magazine, and all of them work well. ( 5rd to 25rd)

My absolute favorite magazine for extended use in all environments = thier stainless steel 20rd version. ( Those things are polished, but easy to paint iot reduce glare)

Last mention concerning M14 mags......

The X14 50rd drum magazine also works well, and have used a few thru select fire M14 service rifles with the fun switch. Lifetime guarantee via each magazine.

At 4.9 lbs loaded, it may or may not be useful to you, but would be tons of fun if your planning an M14A1 build.
Everyone needs a 7.62x51mm ( SAW) ...lol.

Note: They also have or had a skeletonized version, but it leaves the entire system open to rain, snow, dirt, mud, dust, and blood. ( Range mag only imo. )

11B

 

I've had Springfields and a few others and now only have LRB's or Jon Wolfe rifles. There are excellent builders out there. I'd suggest going to the M14forum and reading a bunch before you make a move. I almost bought a JRA but didn't due to the issues I read with Classic and the actual firearms. Before I bought my LRB (have a few) I also bought as many good books as I could find to study up. Between the books out there and the M14forum, you'll get tons of info. LRB does have some nice builds available with no wait on their website right now. I'd buy the M25 with the built in scope mount if I was buying my first one. Good luck, it's a great platform and they're a joy to own.

 

@Fragout

Thanks for taking the time to post detailed replies and pictures, it's greatly appreciated.

Based upon your posts in this thread and elsewhere you're heavily invested in and like the M14 platform. Is there anything you don't like about the platform that one manufacturer fixes or alleviates better than the others?

 

Several.... but I am very picky when it comes to the M14/ M1A.

1. Fulton Armory and LRB both use better quality parts for thier builds...vs SAI.......unless you happen upon a safe queen that was built with M14 service rifle parts.

2. Reciever dimensions can " vary " concerning SAI, and especially in the area where optics mounts are utilized. Never had issues with FA or LRB here. And LRB alleviates it altogether via thier M25 Reciever.

3. SAI uses wood stocks made for them by Boyds. These stocks are a different contour vs M14 " std " walnut and birch stocks. If you like the " feel" of a GI contour wood M14 stock that is brand spankin new.....FA has an immaculate GI contour stock for the M14/ M1A. With that said, others like that thicker feel a Boyds gives them, so its personal choice.

4. SAI headspace tags are typically incorrect. LRB are always spot on.

5. SAI does not use a chrome lined bbl. LRB uses the best chrome lined tubes ever put on an M14 from my experience. As mentioned before, I have one with 58000 documented rds thru it, and it still shoots as well as it did when new. No signs of " flaking " as I have seen via M14 service rifle tubes or Chinese tubes with high rd counts.
That is my number 1 reason .

I got quite a few more, but overall, better quality components, more attention to detail when assembling said components, and a better quality reciever are why I spend the extra dollars for an M14 nowadays.

With that said, if you want a fun gun in this type of rifle, there is nothing " wrong " with a current made M1A. If you want a top tier performing rifle in all categories that you would trust your life with, and/ or are a " only one M14 built to your exact specifications, LRB is at the top in my experience.

11B

 

I have my SHTF/TEOTWAKI guns all sorted out, so I am really looking for an M14 from a collector perspective, that being true to the original design as much as possible at this point but I would definitely want the rifle to be SHTF ready when I need it. I can forgive a chrome lined barrel or other life extending features on the rifle if present as long as the overall design maintains its originality.

I think based on your expertise and the suggestion of some other members of this board, what I've gleaned from the M14 forums, and the websites of the manufacturers I will save up for an LRB rifle.

I don't really see anything mechanically wrong with the M1As, but with what you're saying I can't really see myself interested in one due to them straying from the original M14 design.

The PTR was an exception for me since the pile of magazines needed a rifle to go with it.

 

If your looking to stick as close to the original design ( M14 service rifle), a chrome lined tube is a must ......as the M14 was designed with a chrome lined tube.

This also leaves out the M25 and any barrel length or weight other than a standard contour 22 inch bbl.

Forget the SAI Boyd's stock or thier synthetic stocks as well.

I will break it down for you as to what will be a close replica of an M14 service rifle......

1. Receiver: LRB M14SA ( No double lugged version)

2. Stock: USGI M14 walnut, birch, or synthetic.
Note: If your lookin for that T44E4 look, the flipper buttplate will be replaced with an M1 Garand plate, and you will need a matching walnut handguard to go along with a walnut stock.You would also need the fake selector switch installed to give it the select fire appearance.

3. As much M14 service rifle parts as you can find, including the bbl.
Note: If you can't find an M14 tube in decent shape, go with a 22in std contour Criterion chrome lined bbl. ( LRB, and Fulton both sell them. All of mine are from LRB)

Note: Technically, the M14 tubes utilized a 1:12 inch twist rate, while all my Criterion tubes are 1:10 inch twist rate.

4. Add a cotton web M14 sling, buttstock cleaning kit, and a bayonet. ( Be sure that your flash hider still sports the lug) Bayonet = M6 with M8A1 sheath.

Note: A USGI flash hider and not a cast version, as you will appreciate the " ring" it makes when you fire it.



It simply comes down to how " authentic " you want your rifle to be in the end. In addition, you add loaded magazines and you have a rifle that is more than capable of handling shtf.

With that said, an M21 or M14 EBR clones are totally different animals in terms of thier make up. Same with an M14A1 clone.

11B

 

Talk to Diana at LRB, and get the chrome lined barrel, you can thank me later as it's easier to keep clean