Well I would be sure to have some JHP on hand for protection and hunting it needed. Aslo dont be afraid to have too many FMJ laying aroung either....they won't spoil either you know.

 

I like hps but you need to shoot them threw your guns. Some guns dont shoot hp that good or cycle them. In my stock piles i have a mix batch. I have fmjs for practice and hp for everything else. I also reload and i cast lead bullets so i shoot them alot to. Its what your gun likes best is what id say. I also stock pile wolf 9mm cause my gun shoots it good. Also when in a hurry dont have to worry about picking up brass to reload.

 

Oh for sure.

I've got enough HP's right now to fill up my two magazines for my full-size 9mm (17+1, and 17), and my CC 9mm (7+1, and 7).

I'm just trying to figure out a good approach for buying ammo. Don't have the funds to really buy in bulk. So maybe I'll do 2 boxes of FMJ (1 for practice, 1 for storage) and 1 box of JHP each payday. Going by the prices I'm getting around here for the last few months, that's about $50 dollars.

I'm thinking I'd like to get to 200 rounds of stored pistol ammunition (100 FMJ and 100 JHP). It is my secondary defensive choice (unless CCing then it's my first). So I think that'd be sufficient, for now

 

Walmart carries winchester fmjs 25 bucks a hundred. Hp is probably that for 50. Id go a box of each. Then after a mth you have 400rnds of fmjs and 200 rnds of hp

 

I buy 100ct WWB for practice, runs about $23, and I keep Speer Gold Dot HP's JIC. If you keep you eyes open for sales, you can pick up Gold Dots fairly reasonably, $17-$20 per box of 20 ct.


hick

 

FMJ vs JHP



I have both for my pistols and rifles.
You might want to look at the reasoning behind the Geneva Conventions Rules for the use of FMJ in war. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with their position.I have my own reasoning for the calibers, types, styles of weapons and ammunition that I have. Just remember "conventional" wisdom is some times down right stupid. Don't let the cost of something be the only factor when deciding, If it takes 2/3 FMJ to put a target down as oppose to 1/2 JHP because of over penetration of the FMJ then the question of cost has been answered you spend to much money on the wrong type of ammo. Not to mention you are taking longer to neutralize the threats capability.Time you may not have if multiple threats are present.Just my opinion.

 

I can get 500 rounds of JHP 9mm at USA ammo dot com for $135 shipped - could be slightly more or less for you depending on shipping cost.

For defense purposes you're much better off with JHP, especially with 9mm.

 

I've seen folks who stock thousands of rounds of self defense ammo for their pistols. I can see this for rifles. Even the koreans defending their businesses during the Rodney King riots went through a LOT of ammo, and that was short term.

But pistol fights happen at close range and are extremely dangerous for everyone involved. Anyone who thinks they're going to survive enough face to face pistol fights to use up thousands of rounds of ammo is fooling themselves.

I say stock a lot of inexpensive practice ammo. You'll need to keep your skills as sharp as possible. But when it comes to the premium self defense ammo, just a few boxes is plenty (IF you've already proven that it works 100% in your gun, and that takes a lot of ammo).

 

I've seen folks who stock thousands of rounds of self defense ammo for their pistols. I can see this for rifles. Even the koreans defending their businesses during the Rodney King riots went through a LOT of ammo, and that was short term.

But pistol fights happen at close range and are extremely dangerous for everyone involved. Anyone who thinks they're going to survive enough face to face pistol fights to use up thousands of rounds of ammo is fooling themselves.

If you watch the videos of the Korean shop owners during the riots, a lot of them were using handguns:

 

If your gun cycles the Rem UMC 100 value pack JHP's ,those are a good in between round.A little more than FMJ ,a lot less than Gold Dots . Gold Dots are what My Glock uses though

 

Stock 500 rounds of good HPs per gun, and the rest in FMJ. Those 500 rounds will cover 99.9% of problems, and if not plenty of people have been killed in a lot of wars by FMJs, and they are economical to stock.

 

I go with a 1-10 ratio, JHP being the minority. JHP stop people quicker but have much less penetration, should you need to hunt with your pistol the FMJ ammo will net better results. However for each bullet type you need to shoot plenty to make sure it cycles properly before stockpiling too many untested/unproven rounds for your gun.

 

should you need to hunt with your pistol the FMJ ammo will net better results.

Unless you are talking about flatnose bullets like the truncated cone style of the .40/10mm or SWC style, you are highly mistaken. Ball is like shoving a pencil through the target, the hole is pushed through the target and there's very little actual tissue damage in comparison.

You may want to actually go out and shoot some critters with ball and find out the truth, but I'd rather not watch, I hate to see critters suffer unnecessarily. Stick to SWC or JHP profile bullets for hunting.

The flatnose aka meplat does the work in the non-expanders.

The guys killed by the US from WWI through todays wars have all died from Ball ammo (FMJ).
Something to think about. :thumb:

Killed doesn't always equal stopped.
In 1996 Bob Bell related an incident back in WWII, in which a German hit a dogface with 6 rounds from a MP-40 and the GI went on to kill the German with his M-1 before succumbing to the wounds.

With defensive ammo, you want to do the most damage that you can, so you aren't putting yourself (your family or others) at any additional risk. You want to stop the attack, as quickly as possible and ball isn't as reliable a stopper as the bargain basement JHP's or even close to the good to excellent JHP's.

Even the cheaper white box or generic blaster JHP's are better than ball for defense. The jhp's in question are generally the older bullet design that was replaced by the boutique model.

Even CCI uses Gold Dot bullets in the economy Blazer ammo line, it's fully the equal of the "Lawman" stuff, just cheaper. Something to think about.

 

Any ammo > no ammo.

 

"There is such a thing as enough ammunition. And there is such a thing as not enough ammunition. There is no such thing as too much ammunition."

-Colonel Cooper

 

The guys killed by the US from WWI through todays wars have all died from Ball ammo (FMJ).
Something to think about. :thumb:

 

FMJ was killing people since cartridge ammo was invented, and with 380 I stock as much fmj as I do jhp because the penetration you get from the Winchester white boxes is pretty sweet.

If you just practice the art of buying one box of 9mm every couple weeks or once a month even... you will see your stockpile grow really fast.

 

Decide on how much (realistically) of the JHP and SWC that you would need. Everything else should be the more economical ball ammo. Then decide how to get the most from your practices so you can cut down on spent rounds.

 

I agree about having plenty of practise ammo and only a few boxes of premium.

My 'practise' ammo is 9mm NATO.

One post was talking about having the first 5 rounds in his mag be JHP and the remaining being ball ammo - his reasoning was if after the first 5 rounds they managed to find some cover, then he wanted the better penetration of ball ammo to punch through it.

I guess that makes a little sense.

He also went so far as to say his last round in his mag would be a tracer - that way when he saw the tracer, he knew he had to switch mags but he still had one in the chamber.

This might be over-thinking it though. I guess I'm a little guilty of that too as in shotgun - the first shot being for spread while the last few being slugs for greater distance.

It's good to have a plan but you know how long plans last.

 

With out going into great numbers about how much I may or may not have stocked, I try to keep my JHP to FMJ at about 20% to 80% ratio for pistols. 20% JHP and 80% FMJ. Having several thousands of pistol rounds is silly IMHO.

If I have 1,000-1,500 for each of my main pistols (mine and my wife's) then I figure I should be fine for a while. I would rather stock up more on other calibers that are going to be more effective.

 

I get all my 9mm through Cheaper Than Dirt. I would recommend stocking different caliber. I am new to this site, but have been preparing for a while now. I would say purchase a inexpensive 22 semi auto rifle. Cheap ammo and perfectly fine for hunting small game. Also if you have children it is alot easier and less scary to start training them properly for firearm safety.

 

I buy a couple boxes everytime I go to the store, and only what's on sale... It's easier and doesn't kill the wallet... If you are able to reload then I'd buy ammo in Fmj and reload in Hp's.... I also keep a min of 50 rds 00 buck, 250 rds for shotgun (in various shot for hunting), 500 rds per pistol, and 1000 rds per rifle. You can never have enough rounds for the 22lr, LOL... I've found remington 9mm 115gr fmj for as low as $9 a box of 50, .223/5.56 for $6 abox... Like everything else just need to shop around... Also for reloading if ya buy your bullets in bulk you'll save alot I reload 1000rds for the 9mm for around $135 ($40 per 1000 primers, $20 = 1lbs powder, $75 per 1000 fmj bullets). But to each is his own.....

 

FMJ are used by the military due to treaty's and nato. The belief is they do less damage and makes it easier on field medics.... Either way I wouldn't want to be shot with either, lol...

 

FMJ will put holes in paper, so that means it will put holes in people. Most people won't continue to fight with bullet holes in them so FMJ will serve the purpose of stopping the act if that is all you have.

 

There was a great study posted here recently where the author analyzed something like 1,800 shooting incidents. A lot of people flamed the study as crap, but it was just the opposite. It was solid gold research. The author was able to document one very interesting aspect of shootings... it didn't matter if you were using a 22 or a 45... most people would "stop" after being hit twice. His theory was that it was not the "stopping power" of the bullet shutting them down (i.e., incapacitating them so they couldn't fight any more) it was "psychological" stopping. They simply didn't want to get shot anymore.

I've boxed and kickboxed, practiced judo, and numerous other martial arts since '72 or '74... it's honestly been such a life long thing I can't remember. I am what is called a "swarm" fighter. It basically means that you go ball-to-the-wall to try to knock out or choke out your opponent as quickly as possible with multiple blows. (I hate seeing kids being taught to throw one kick or punch and then wait to see what happens.) But fighting swarm style taught me something very interesting... how quickly people psychologically give up. I've only had a couple times in the last 30 years where someone was even able to land a punch on me in a street fight (but boy have I taken a lot in practice) and my training is to keep going. don't show you've been rocked. And land that one punch that clocks a guy's lights out. I've seen many times that people who could have been much harder to put down simply "give up" because if they hit you and you don't react to it... and you hit that sweet spot on the jaw the rocks them to Sunday... even if you don't get a KO THEY WANT THE FIGHT OVER.

Mohammed Ali was talking to George Foreman about one of the fights he had won over him, and he told foreman that at one point in the fight he was out on his feet. But because he didn't show it and Foreman didn't realize it... Ali went on to win the fight. If you are a trained fighter and you watch boxing or UFC... many times you will see a point in the fight where you say "that's it." Because despite the fighter's training... you see the moment when he has psychologically given up. This same concept appears to apply significantly to handguns. Shooting somebody twice with a 25 acp obviously doesn't do remotely the damage of hitting them dead center in the chest with a single 357 hp... but the reality is a large number of people will just give up psychologically because they just don't want to get shot again.

What is REALLY dangerous is the guy you've shot a couple times and he is so drunk, drugged, crazy or enraged that he doesn't care that you've shot him. He's going to keep coming at you till either you kill him or he kills you.

Jim Bowie at the famed Sandbar Dual was stabbed through the chest with a sword cane. He didn't care. He grabbed the shirt of the guy who stabbed him... pulled him in close and gutted him like a fish... all the while with the guy's sword stuck right through him. There was no "psychologically defeating" a guy like Jim Bowie. He had a true fighter's heart. A few days later he butchered three guys who came to assassinate him. I'd bet money they thought three on one they had the advantage. What they didn't count on was the mindset of their adversary. (Years ago I had a kid in one of my classes who signed up after he and 17 of his friends got their asses handed to them by two kids who were in "Strait Edge." Strait Edge is some kind of skinhead gang that won't use drugs or alcohol. I said "18 on 2 and you couldn't take him? Your friends must be wimps." He said "No, it was that these two guys were that tough.")

That is the real world... and that is why the fmj versus hp debate is partially smoke and mirrors. There are a lot of people who if you shoot them once with a BB gun will head for the hills... but there are others who you have to kill and even if you kill them you'd better drive a stake through their heart, cut off their head, stuff their mouth with garlic, and bury in a church cemetery or they are coming back after you. Read what Rasputin survived and kept going from. There are some tough mofos in this world. Seeing a gun doesn't scare them and getting shot doesn't scare them. That's why HD I use 357 jhp and 45 jhp or 12 gauge buckshot. I'm not going to take for granted that the guy who breaks into my house is a wimp.

 

I stock like 60% JHP and 40% FMJ in 9mm

I always use JHP for carry and spare mags in 9mm, the FMJ is for the majority of practice at the range. I just grab a few boxes and head to the range, and replace later when I find good deals.

I suggest you go local and buy a few hundred rounds of JHP TODAY, and then place an order for a bulk amount. Having two magazines worth is NOT enough

 

Since this is a survival board... a quick comparison 2 mags of FMJ, is tantamount to 1 gallon of water in the fridge.

It's better than nothing, but man, it's not enough.

(Edit - Of course, I've been accused of "Ammo Hoarding")

 

To be constructive. Buy a box of 50 quality SD rounds on line with each paycheck. HST, Ranger T and DPX are my personal favorites. 20 rounds of SD ain't gonna cut it. Keep in mind, you should prepare as if you can't buy anymore. Unlike food and water, if production of brass casings, primers, gun powder and lead/copper bullets stops, or is restricted, you can go out and "Hunt and Gather" them.

SGammo
http://www.sgammo.com/

Ammunitiontogo
http://ammunitiontogo.com/

Mahsupplies
http://www.mahsupplies.net/

You almost always find quality SD ammo at these three above and I have purchased personally from them. Namely the following SD rounds.

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Here are a boat load of other suppliers, that I have NOT dealt with personally.

www.aimsurplus.com
www.ammoman.com
www.ammunitionstore.com
www.cheaperthandirt.com
www.georgia-arms.com
www.22ammo.com
www.jgsales.com
www.outdoormarksman.com
www.southernammo.com
www.sportsmansguide.com
www.ttiarmory.com
www.arizonagunrunners.com
www.natchezss.com
[http://DansAmmo.com
http://CorBon.com
[http://Cascade-Ammo.com
http://BuyAmmo.com
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php
http://www.georgia-arms.com/index1.htm
http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/s...pig27&pg=26856
http://streichers.com/
http://www.americanweapons.us/index.html
http://surplusammo.com/index.php?cPa...87f09dde7ba4e6
http://www.the-armory.com/
http://mastercast.net/

 

I agree with Burnteyes - my favorite SD rounds are Winchester Ranger T, Federal HST, and Corbon DPX. All have great penetration and reliable expansion in numerous tests.

I ordered Ranger T and Federal HST from ammunition to go dot com just last week - the order shipped the next day and was on my doorstep two business days later with standard shipping. Very pleased. Prices are good as well.

 

Yeah, all three are good, but I think ATG is probably the fastest. They are a bit more than SGAmmo, and MAH though.

Just an FYI Stan Chen's custom ammo, available at ATG, is the same as the Corbon DPX, but is comes in 50 round boxes, and is, IMO a better quality that Corbon. That is, both are Barnes TAC-XP. Though currently it's only available in .45.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produ...asym-solid-defensex-185gr-p-barnes-tacxp-hp-ammo/cName/45-acp-hollow-point-ammo

 

I'd go with whatever was cheaper and easier to get. I actually prefer ball ammo for most of my shooting needs because it feeds better and will stop most bad guys if I do my job. I would keep some hollow point ammo around as previously mentioned, like 500 rounds or so, but the majority of my ammo would be ball.

Have you bought any ammo from any local gun shows? If you find the right vendors you can get cans of 9 mm ammo instead of buying it by the box. When you buy by the box at like Walmart you always pay more money.