You definitely want to be able to get wherever on IMO 3/4 tank of gas but *yes* the hoards will get 100 miles. Read "One Second After" it's a novel but holds lots of information. Although most will only travel by foot 5-10 miles a day, the healthiest will start arriving within 10 days and from that point on, if you're anywhere near a road, expect to hear them pitter patter - trying to steal any cattle, chickens, ect and visiting homes for handouts.

My ex-bf is personally doing the western NC route actually (lol) and lives outside Aberdeen (Army officer) he also picked up a run down 'tax auction' type trailer near Palmyra VA - about 1/2way down - and stores some fuel and food storage and a BOB in there - plan is stop halfway and replenish - he says it's safer than caches and i'm pretty sure he got the place for like $2500. They just wanted it to be 'kept up' rather than fall apart/overgrown.

If you want to be closer, I still say go for it. But remember if you're planning on a lot of land dont put your home in the front. I'd go for center or at least the best defended option for the land -- and be ready to defend it. Bc ppl will smell you cooking from 1/2 mile away or so when they're hungry and their senses are heightened.

Me, I haven't even found my BOL yet. If I'm in Vegas I have one near Tahoe, but I'm on the east coast for now and if shtf here im SOL I think and bugging in for a couple months. Scary to think about.

 

The "hoards" will not travel through rough terrrain unless they think there is something on the other side worth going for. I think the WV idea works. I also think north central PA will be ok.

An army marches on it's stomach. That's what will influence the initial travel. So most will stick to the suburbs and then farm land. The areas to avoid in the more mountainous areas are the interstates. There I would want to be 20 miles away.

I think we will see the highways out of town turn into parking lots and most will burn up their gas sitting there. It happens with most small disasters such as hurricane evacuations, etc. Just think how it happens in a big disaster. You can imagine how tempers will flare and what will happen in similar situations if they know there is no law do hold them accountable later. You certainly don't want to have to cross those hoards to get to your destination.

 

I personally don't give any stock to the "hoardes" theory, British people haven't got the stomach(or the legs) for it, yes near the big cities we will probably see some looting but further out it will be a different matter.

 

Neither do the hordes that will pour out of Atlanta. I'm a good 2 hours' drive from there. If it's possible to drive the more determined ones might make it up here to the mountains, but it seems more likely that the predatory ones will fall upon the suburbs first.

 

The hordes from Atlanta won't make it past SC. All but the most determined who will be a concern no matter where you are.

 

I also don't buy the big hoard theory. It just seems unlikely to me that a massive amount of people could survive walking more than 10 days when they don't have the ability to get clean water and food. Sure they can steal food, but that will be competitive and I think most will contract waterborne illnesses from drinking unfiltered water. 100 miles into WV you're still on the edge though. The terrain will help.

I really don't know how much better western NC is though. Charlotte is a very big city for the area plus you've got Winston Salem to the north and Greensboro and the Triangle to the east. Western NC is fairly developed in a relative world and has a pretty convenient highway system. That said I do think once you get west of Wilksboro on 421 the terrain helps, but you've got to go a ways west to get there. That said some of the areas north of 421 and west of winston are very inconvenient to get to.

Have you considered Western(central to south) Va? It would be closer to you and just as safe. Plus the highway system there isn't as developed as western NC. Land is also cheap. That said I think I'd rather live in western NC than VA but for a bug out location western VA would be better. I'd look west of smith mountain lake if you're planning to live there.

 

I also don't buy the big hoard theory. It just seems unlikely to me that a massive amount of people could survive walking more than 10 days when they don't have the ability to get clean water and food. Sure they can steal food, but that will be competitive and I think most will contract waterborne illnesses from drinking unfiltered water.

that's the way I see it too.

 

My only opposition to NC is that it is a 9hr. drive any time I would want to work on our land...

That's a good reason to be opposed. At that distance, you're not going to visit your BOL often enough to make sure it's free of unwanted guests, which is a legitimate concern in this era of meth heads, pot farmers and so forth. If you put up any structures on that land, you might come to find that someone took a liking to copper pipes and other materials of value as well. Not that it couldn't happen anywhere, but nine hours is a long way to drive to check on things.

As much as it doesn't make sense for the hungry masses to make a beeline for the back country if TSHTF, what's to say that people will act rationally? Desperation makes people do illogical and unpredictable things, as if they don't already. Something is better than nothing, and when people have nothing left to lose, setting off into the wilderness might seem like a fantastic idea. You want your BOL to be closer to you than to a major population center, at least in my opinion.

 

I think where ever you go... you need to get there, before someone else does... some would say possession is 9/10 of the law... how do you prove you own the property, to someone who doesn't really care, & was there before you got there & "claimed" it, when there is no law, or where law has more important things to worry about ???

 

These "hordes" will not make it very far. Most of them will wait for the government to "do something". They will never make it past the suburbs.

 

Hello from western NC. I think this area would be good to bug out to, but I agree with Inazone. Any property left unatended here is likely to be looted before you return. most people here are good folks and frendly but a few bad apples spend their lives living off the goverment and stealing. Last week someone took the locked gate my brother in-law put up to keep people off his property.

 

If we are talking about a WROL situation, there are a few things to remember. 90% of the population lives within 100 miles of the coasts. They will stay put as long as there is food. Once that runs out, the predation will begin. That will eliminate a large portion of those left. Dont forget, "civilized" people are really lazy. They are used to just going to the grocery store or restaurant and getting something to eat when they are hungry. Most people have absolutely no idea how to hunt/forage. It also mostly liberal who live along the coasts. That removes alot of the threat of "hordes" as most liberals have never even held a weapon.

Finally, they will not begin to move "inland" until every possible food source is exhausted. (Remember, they are lazy). By this time, the remaining "Ozombies", as I like to call them, will be tired and starving. For most, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

You all have made a few good points. I believe that walking masses will go from suburb to suburb, town to town...Seeing mountains and no homes for as far as they can see will NOT be something that appeals to them. I see Baltimorons and Washingtonians moving south through Richmond and into NC, NOT out into the wide expanses of Western VA and WV. I did read 1 second after--(great concept about the EMP) I think my brother is worried about biker "Mad Max" groups more than the average overweight suburbanite but I still think finding my house in the middle of a 100 acre wood mountain if I pull up the mailbox and drag a few fallen trees across the way is not that likely. People will go for the easiest route and least resistance. I plan to move there permanently in 5-7 years so it isn't JUST a bug-out location, but it will be until then. I wish he would see it my way b/c if we went in together on land we could team up if TSHTF

 

My family teamed up decades ago. Started with my grandfather and his brothers. Now, its been passed down to me, my siblings and a some cousins. The property there still looks completely undeveloped. Not NC, but just across the line in Tennessee. Most of the neighbors are kinfolk and even they think its is our "hunting/camping land". Completely blends in with the National Forest, so anyone not from that area thinks it actually is govt. land. Of course, if they turn onto the one dirt road leading onto the property they will see it is blocked with "NO TRESPASSING" signs. If they get out and walk around, they will see nothing. A check of the counties tax records there shows that it is empty land. No structures of any kind, that you can see.

What is not seen is:

Living space for 150+ people.
Power generation system. (Which I will not go into).
Storage space for 20 years of supplies (food/parts/raw materials/etc).
Machine shop.
Hydroponics.
Water storage tanks.
And more that I wont list. All underground, completely camo'd into the terrain. We even tried finding the entry hatches with a probe. Didnt work.

If you think that that is alot to build, and expensive, you need to know that my grandfather started building back in the 1950's. This is in a place where, even with satellites, you cant see homes because of the tree canopy.

 

Offhand, I can't think of any reason to be part of a horde. A small group perhaps. We see large crowds during riots made up of individuals looking to get whatever they can under cover of the general chaos. People trying to find food and water after a disaster would be less likely to be able to obtain a sufficient share of anything if part of a very large crowd. It's more likely that they would fight amongst themselves. The few who got anything trying to keep it from those who got nothing. How likely is a mob to be disciplined enough to share?

 

Rawles has an archived article"Thoughts on the Golden Horde"(I wrote it)..start there...but if u cant live at ur place,more than 1tank of gas away is too far...I remember the gas shortages of 73 and trying to drive from Ft Bragg to Mississippi during those times....add in a SHTF factor and you wont make it...JMO

 

For those that don't think there will be hordes, you have not seen the Katrina/Rita mess. Hordes exist. They don't have to be only walking. At first there will be gasoline. The only question will be how big and long will they occur. How bad depends on the SHTF. But make no mistake, hordes can and do exist. I am not a fan of UN-attended BOL. People will move in in a SHTF. Meth heads and dirt bags will strip it while living in/on it. Unless you know your neighbors and they are trustworthy to manage the place, don't. Now for hordes not going where they don't see homes. We have hordes to a limited extent on our southern border. I lived 20 miles from town. 5 miles from a paved road. We always had groups on foot moving through. If they have a map, and see a city over there in that direction that sounds "OK", they will go in that direction. They won't know or understand topography. They will just go that way. ----->

 

this is the problem I have being a Brit on an American forum, the British don't have the mentality for it, without fuel they wont walk very far. yes a few individuals might go a bit further than the masses but not much, and a few is not a horde. I live hundreds of miles from a big city in a rural area where everyone knows everyone else and strangers stand out a mile.

 

How many is a horde?

 

More than I can kill with one magazine.

 

All this speculation about what groups of people might do. What do we know from history they have done? Around the world and here. I know for example in Weimar Germany crowds went out to farms to seize goods. As Nutty Old Geezer mentioned, hordes existed after Katrina.

Can anyone show recent examples, either in America or other countries, what groups of people tend to do in grid down, or economic, or resource-starved, or famine conditions?

 

We had the same issue last year , and just ended up buying a piece of land we liked, about 4 hours driving distance from the nearest large cities. It has water ( spring and pond) , it has pasture, it has woods, and there are no subdivisions anywhere near. Plus it is a beautiful piece of land in the mountains which is where we wanted to be. You have to consider these things: what if there is no SHTF and you are stuck with a property 200 miles from nowhere in some dry dusty place out west? Do you really want to spend your retirement there? Also, it would be hard to get to it. We are about a day of driving away from our property now ( we really wanted out of Florida, so there was no way around it) but we can get there in a day, not 3. Yes, "hordes" could invade, but , even in remote places, someone eventually could arrive. I figure the ghetto trash overall is too ignorenant, fat and lazy to walk that many miles in seach of stuff and if they found a cow, they wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

One thing about WV: be careful you have the mineral rights to the property, if you buy there!!!

 

IMO West Virginia (or even better Kentucky) would be the better place to be in any collapse scenario that would result in the cities emptying out. It may be closer to some heavily populated problem areas, but it is relatively free of pesky nuclear power plants (unlike North Carolina).

If it has gotten so bad that hordes are leaving the cities, I doubt the nuclear power plants or their spent fuel storage facilities are going to be intact for long. I would not want to be downwind from any of them if I could help it.

 

Avoid recreation areas and National parks if you want to stay away from the hordes. People mob these places now before SHTF. They will mob them afterwards if they need to flee the cities. They are desirable and there is no shortage of guides, maps and colorful brochures telling people to come to them.

Also avoid land that the locals have used forever as places to get drunk, fish, hunt, ride ATV's, pick flowers or whatever. You will have a hard time changing a long term pattern. It mostly is not worth the grief.

Avoid being between cities just off a paved road unless it is really off and the road dead ends in nowhere. Hopefully the road is near impassible without a serious vehicle to drive it. The easier it is to get to your place the easier it is for people to come visiting.

 

http://survivalblog.com//?s=golden+horde

 

I wonder how many internet rambos... are going to pull the trigger on a hungry Family with kids.... a pregant woman....young children stranged looking for help ..

this thread is almost a little to gross.

 

That is the one question 95% of preppers shy awsy from....if u have a yrs supply of food for ur family of 4, and u take in 4 more,you just sentenced ur family to starve in less than 6 months....So when that dragging-a•s family with starving lids show up(and they or somebody like them WILL) are you going to REALLY have the guts to send them on their way emptyhanded?...Because if you give them ANYTHING,they will come back....

 

Not all hordes are bad

 

Some are evil though. Check out this gang pillaging and terrorizing an innocent victim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZF5S5ko8dc

 

What some people are forgetting...or not taking into account is that IF people are literally starving, cold, and desperate, they will resort to savagery. I am a nurse who currently teaches. The very intelligent, educated people I work with have no preparations and make fun of anything I discuss regarding prep. They would die quickly. BUT there are some rough redneck, biker, ex military types who would form loose groups and take what they want. Would there be hordes? yes within about 100 miles of urban areas. Would there be smaller "militant groups"? Yes, much more mobile. It seems after much research half the 'experts' think anywhere east of the Mississippi is horrible. Half think anywhere isolated is fine.

Not everyone will agree...but I believe EVERYONE has the potential to prepare, if they don't do anything, then want MINE, I have no problem saying NO. Just look at videos of military persons trying to distribute food off the back of a truck to a hundred starving people to see how "civilized" they act...

 

Too many threads on this already to bother reading through the same replies here, so I'll just summarize my usual points.


Don't get hung up on your preconceptions of "urban hordes." Many people get this image in their head of "urban youth" with AKs and a bone through their nose. The assumption is that they are too stupid and ignorant to go anywhere that they can't reach by bus line.

First, "urban youth" aren't having a problem getting to Ferguson from a fair distance away. I'm not sure why so many replies to threads like this somehow assume that it is difficult to get a BOL when you are a looter but you and your friends can easily drive there.

Second, why do people assume it will only be hoodrats? When the food runs out EVERYONE will be willing to do anything for their next meal. Lots of hunters live in cities, lots of firearms owners do too. Far more than 50% of the population lives in cities, about 50% of households have a firearm...

Do you think police departments are going to bravely go down with the ship, or will they get together and say "screw this **** hole, let's pack up the armory and our families and find a new place."


I'm not saying there is no safety east of the Mississippi, but don't think that a few hours' drive will make you immune to the problems of the megalopolis. I don't think anywhere west of the MS would be perfectly safe either, as many like to think. If you can get there, so can a group of desperate and disciplined people. All it takes is 1 group. So make friends, no matter where you are.

 

I vote for CWV.