Yahoo Finance has an article saying that the drop in gold prices is tied
to a jump in the interest rates in Brazil. It says Brazil raised their interest
rates by 50 basis points in a move to control inflation.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gold-...s-Slammed-by-Brazil-tsmf-3471045163.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=

Can someone explain that to me in small words? To my thinking, Brazil
raising interest rates would serve to confirm and fuel inflation, and gold
prices would rise in response.

Yet the opposite appears to be happening. Don't know that much about
international finance. Anyone care to explain it down to me? :xeye:

 

Can someone explain that to me in small words? To my thinking, Brazil
raising interest rates would serve to confirm and fuel inflation, and gold
prices would rise in response.

When a central bank raises its' interest rate it is raising the cost of money to its' lending banks which pass thru the cost to borrowers. The central bank does this to slow down the economy (fewer people borrow). So if gold drops because of the hike in rates investors are making the judgment (correctly or incorrectly) that other central banks will join in and slow down the inflation rate.

I personally don't think this is a correct judgment at this time, but that is the thinking that is going on.

 

Let me also add that when the interest rate is raised it provides other opportunities for investors.

Since Brazil raised it's interest rate to over 11% the banks there may be offering CD's with an interest rate of 8% (just an example) per year. People had been moving their assets to gold since no other option was yielding as good of a return. Will this change? Possibly. People may decide to move their money out of gold and into these fixed rate savings devices.

There will come a time at which the inflation rate surpasses the fixed savings rate so much it is no longer advantageous to invest in said devices. This will spur the enormous demand for gold and silver and create the so-called "moonshot" that people talk about.

Something to think about though is the US Government doesn't factor food and fuel into the inflation index. This gives the appearance of much tamer inflation (when we know that to not be the case). As long as the government can deny there is inflation they can avoid the need to rein it in (raise interest rates).

 

Well put



Gold does not pay dividends,my grandfather had saving bonds at 11% from the '70's ,80's

 

I'm welcoming a price drop. Anyone else who is buying should as well.

 

Gold and silver are so highly manipulated that it is hard to know what is what anymore.
I just read an article about the Feds selling paper gold (are there still people that gullible out there?) and buying real gold.

They are more than likely manipulating the markets by flooding it with paper gold to drop the price so they can buy up some more of the real deal. At some point currencies are going to have to be backed by something as the faith in paper issue is all but dead.

For those who are investing in gold, it seems a good time to stock up. Financial Sense News Hour had some interesting discussions about this over the weekend.
http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/big-picture All Roads Lead to Gold

I personally do not buy into it so I am not stoking the purchase for my own benefit.
It think that is always an important caveat to add.

I have a small investment in silver because I think that is a more practical investment since it is used in several valuable applications but do not see the overall value of investing in gold long term or short term for my own portfolio on a tight budget.

 

PM Manipulation



I fully agree. Today's hit to PM values is a computer generated slam by the Bad Guys in order to shake out the weak hands and allow JP Morgan to cover even more of their naked short positions. Gold and silver have not been fairly traded for over 40 years.

The latest CFTC Bank Participation Report shows that the BIG US Silver bank short (read JP Morgan) continues to exit their COMEX short positions.

http://www.cftc.gov/MarketReports/BankParticipationReports/index.htm

This report shows a decrease of 3,674 contracts in the month of December. That equates to covering over 18M ounces of silver shorts with 22,658 contracts remaining or 113M oz.

Obviously, JPM knows what's coming down the road from the CFTC position limits and is trying with all their might to shrink their COMEX silver short. If you're not buying silver now you're on the wrong side of the equation.

 

buy the phuckin' dip.

 

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/breaking-news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=26963565


One word--------CHINA

 

Coming to this financial forum makes me nervous

A lot of pumping,and the Financial Disclosure Act doesn't apply.
The buy on PM's,based on the collapse of FRN's play,assumes that people will value PM's over food,heat,etc. and maybe starving people will value silver over food,etc.
I believe in buying the "stuff" in advance,IMHO
If you planned on selling silver at a higher price,you have made a good investment,IMHO

 

A lot of pumping,and the Financial Disclosure Act doesn't apply.
The buy on PM's,based on the collapse of FRN's play,assumes that people will value PM's over food,heat,etc. and maybe starving people will value silver over food,etc.
I believe in buying the "stuff" in advance,IMHO

This is where I think silver will still have value. It is used as a conduit for electricity even in solar panels. It has many applications that would be very valuable in a SHTF setting.

Those are the kinds of metals, like copper, that will have escalating value in a post world.

 

I bought Silver and Gold last week... go figure... I have enough to buy one or the other this week..

which is a safer bet this week Gold or Silver?

 

I personally think silver is a much better investment because it is something that is actually used in applications and it is much cheaper to invest in and hold and will hold its value. I just have a hard time believing that when food, shelter, and heat are the priority that people would be willing to exchange those things for gold.

You can buy more of it in smaller denominations that can be easily traded.

How is the average person going to know if you are passing off fool's gold or the real deal? The trust factor will be a difficult thing to overcome in a post world too when you are trading at such high value as gold is projected to have or what they are asking you to pay out now.

If you have limited resources then silver our survival gear or seeds seem like a smarter investment. If things get really bad, a good axe or wood stove would have more value than a gold coin.

I guess the decision each person has to make first is just how bad do you think things will get?

If you think it will not get that bad and things will hold together pretty well then gold may be a better investment. If you think things will get pretty bad then survival stuff makes more sense.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Truly appreciate your input... you seem vested in your responses and knowledgeable of these PM's.

We are you positioned..more G or S?

jus' curious...

My vision of shtf... life will go on..some business will continue to function. I see undependable power, undependable police or gov't security and many robberies, burglaries, home invasion, murders and general assaults. The value of the dollar will be worthless...

I see this all happening soon after our dollar is not recognized as the world currency.

 

I am not entirely sure you are addressing me in this post and do not want to be presumptuous. Is it me you are asking or someone else?

I only ask if it is me because I was the last poster before your post.

 

yup twas directed to you...

Curious to see where other are positioned on the G&S thing.. I've pulled all my funds from the 401's and the markets and I am investing in tangible things...

I'm just a bit on the fence if G or S is a better security.

Again, thanks for your opinion.

 

I think if you have gold jewelery, I would not sell it but hold on to it.

The next thing you should invest in are some sustainable and return on investment things like energy and heat sources that is best for your area. If solar panels work in your area then research them and invest in those and a good battery bank.

Once you have food, heat, power, and housing taken care of, then good training in skills that would be valuable post SHTF is the next area of an excellent investment. Manuals, videos, books, etc.

Finally, if you are looking at a moderate collapse (which I think is very Pollyanna knowing how unstable the entire world economy is based on a host of fiat currencies and an uneducated populace) and you just want to stick your money in a safe investment, I honestly think of the money you plan to invest you should be mildly diverse: 15% gold, 50% silver, and research some other things like reading through and listening to intelligent gurus like Jim Puplava from Financial Sense News Hour and his side kick. He is pretty balanced, both politically, deflation/ inflation position, and PMs vs other commodities.

These decisions really are more fine tuned to where you live, your situation (how much you have to invest and can afford to lose), how well you are set up to survive most scenarios forecasted, and what you have to sell as far as knowledge and skills if you find you made some bad bets and lost a majority of your investments.

I'm sorry I am not more helpful but it really does vary significantly based on each person's situation.

 

I was basically interested in the Gold or Silver thing..

We have several gardens, water sources, Solar, wind and micro hydro...we can, dehydrate etc. I'm pretty adept at the survival thing as well... ;-)

I was looking to see opinions of more gold or more silver in a situation where longevity in financial security as well as tradeability (is that a word?) would be necessary.

 

My opinion only: If you can afford it and you think things will not get survivalist bad, then I would go as high as 15% of your investment portfolio in gold. I would go heavier in silver because I think it is a poor man's investment and there will be a lot more of them than those who can or will exchange gold.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I see more people exchanging silver than gold.. gold is too high for us working class...

there might be a small stretch of survivalist bad...

thanks for your opinion....

 

I'm just buying silver atm. I'm betting on the silver ratio closing up on gold and then sell some silver to buy gold. Not that I have a lot, but it's what I'm doing.

 

Thanks Selah

I,personally have been buying a mix of G & S. but not a 15 / 50 mix, not that I disagree with it. Just hadn't broken it down quite that way. Was buying gold for basic value and security, silver for trading, so have a lot less in silver than gold. Guess I need to stock up on more silver. It really is still a lot more affordable than gold. IMHO

 

I've heard the same responses from many intelligent individuals about how they could not/would not be able to defend themselves with lethal force.
I suggest you rethink and condition yourself to be able to do just that. You obviously think there is a chance that thing could go wrong in this world or this country or you wouldn't be so active on a forum such as this.
I hope you realize that if/when shtf you would be vulnerable. There are a lot of very ugly people out there...

 

You are very kind. I have thought hard about it and prayed about it.
I would not be the same person if I had to take another life. I would really rather die. I am looking forward to eternity. I will not play tug of war with God. If He is calling me home, I'm taking the trip with gladness.

You are correct, there will be a lot of very ugly people out there. As much as it would break my heart to leave other good folks behind and not be there to help them deal with it, I don't want to live in the world as it seems it will be. Life doesn't have that much of an appeal to me but I will give it my best as long as I am here.

 

The action should help put to bed some of the linear thinking regarding the USD and the "price" of gold/silver. Fires are burning everywhere and volatility will rule just like a candle flickering violently before it goes out.

 

Interesting response. I've just the opposite vigor. I have children now and I will do all I can to keep my family alive and well to live... it may not be the life I had, the life my wife had but I'll do all I can to give them life...a life.

 

I understand completely. And it is for folks like you that I want to be prepared to help and do what I can to assist you to get those babies raised.

We are all at different points in our life and being led differently.

 

Thank you, you did answer my question, mostly. I thought I had picked up on an undercurrent of weapons not really being important to you.

It sounds to me like you mostly have your head on straight except for one point I would like to make to you. While the men you mention may be willing to look out for your safety, I wonder if you have thought about the position you have put them in.

I assume they know you don't have weapons. If a bad situation develops one or more of them may take unnecessary risks to protect you. If they knew you had a weapon and could at least temporarily take care of yourself, they may, as just an example, not run across open ground to get to you to protect you.

It seems to me you are putting those people in a position where they will take risks they otherwise wouldn't because you have abrogated your responsibility to take care of yourself due to personal beliefs. It would only be fair for you to do your part as long as you are physically able.

 

I appreciate what you are saying and I can see I did not clarify things.

I did not nor would I ask them to protect me. I hope I didn't make it sound like I did because I would have misspoken.

They want to look after me for their own vested interest so I can teach them all of the skills and knowledge I have. They see me as a valuable asset. If they choose not to or are unable to, I accept that.

I would never want them to be in jeopardy for my sake at my request.

I guarantee you that I am better off without a weapon because all that will happen is that it would be taken from me and used against me and those around me. I know I do not have the stomach to protect myself.

I have my wits and God. That is going to have to be enough. :thumb:

 

What I am investing in...

Is Lead. Lead will allow you to shoot something to eat. Lead will appreciate greatly in value after a limited or full collapse. Lead will allow you to defend your food so you and your family can continue eating.

Selah, I think after a collapse, initially many good people will die. But the bad people are going to be less prepared and more aggressive. They will, through the law of averages, eventually winnow themselves out as they start running into survival types who have dug in and prepared.

And one thing that irritates me as a Christian, is turn the other cheek Christians who won't stand up for whats right. I miss the fire and brimstone Christians who would stand up and not get raped and murdered. The use of violence is not evil when it is justified.

If American troops in World War 2 refused to fight. The NAZI's would have won.

Still enjoy your posts and respect your survival mentality.


Sierra Dave

 

Is Lead. Lead will allow you to shoot something to eat. Lead will appreciate greatly in value after a limited or full collapse. Lead will allow you to defend your food so you and your family can continue eating.

Selah, I think after a collapse, initially many good people will die. But the bad people are going to be less prepared and more aggressive. They will, through the law of averages, eventually winnow themselves out as they start running into survival types who have dug in and prepared.

And one thing that irritates me as a Christian, is turn the other cheek Christians who won't stand up for whats right. I miss the fire and brimstone Christians who would stand up and not get raped and murdered. The use of violence is not evil when it is justified.

If American troops in World War 2 refused to fight. The NAZI's would have won.

Still enjoy your posts and respect your survival mentality.


Sierra Dave

My position has nothing to do with turn the other cheek mentality. Jesus even told his people to buy a sword before He sent them out. I am sure it was to defend themselves.

This is ONLY about my inability to kill another human being. I know that my conscience simply will not allow me to do it and all wise people I have talked to told me that unless you are SURE that you can use a gun to kill another, you should not have one in the house.

I take their wise counsel.

I understand that danger this puts me in but there are some difficult decisions we all must make and this is one for me. I am sure you all have one or two of your own.

 

The kill question is a tough one for believers. No, I won't go out and kill anyone for personal gain, or vengence, but if someone comes into my house and their intent is do to harm to my family, well thery're gonna meet a guy who is about to deliver them a lot of pain and discomfort.

 

As a Christian I strongly believe (and can support w/ Scripture) that allowing evil to go forward when I could do something about it is wrong. If Selah is nearby, and I can take up arms to stop someone from perpetrating evil, I will do so. That is the higher moral good...much more so than to allow an innocent person to be harmed by someone with evil intent. God made it VERY CLEAR that for the one who spills the blood of another (and read it in context, this is talking about MURDER, not killing), then his blood should be spilled. This is because God places such an incredible value on human life.

As far as pm's, before you try to provide an answer clarify what the question is. IF you are looking for a store of wealth, to preserve for the future your excess production (in other words you have produced more than you have consumed), gold is the ultimate store of wealth. Always has been, and if the indications of both the central banks as well as the most wealthy private citizens, it still is and will be going forward.

FOFOA has once again tried to address some basics about these ideas on his blog a couple of days ago. Strongly suggest a reading of it [fofoa.blogspot.com]. I am not connected to him or his site in any way, but he has truly opened my eyes to these issues.

BTW: Jesus didn't exactly turn the other cheek when he went into the temple. He used violence to right a wrong that was occurring. Food for thought.

 

great animated vid to explain what to do.

it's funny. you won't regret watching it. and, I believe it's FK Approved (TM)

 

perhaps the "religion" sub-forum is better for you guys?

just sayin'...

:

 

My position really has nothing to do with religion, although some have tried to say it does. I was asked if my not wanting to have weapons was because of my faith and I said it was not even though I do trust God for my future no matter what that is.

The core discussion is about ones ability to kill another human being and that is a human condition not a religious one.

 

best of luck with that.

 

She was ask a question

She answered the question,was criticized for her answer,now she's ask to go to the religion forum?

 

She answered the question,was criticized for her answer,now she's ask to go to the religion forum?

Bob, I was just taking a side swipe at a joke. this is a PM discussion, and it did get bit off track, no?

I'm a church-goin' fella, so I have nothing against any of it.