I would think a 22 would be good in a survival situation. You can carry alot of ammo for it and ammo is cheap to buy. I got 550 rounds the other day for $14. In a barter situation people will have ammo in that caliber also. You can use a 22 for hunting or defense and it is nowhere near as loud as any other round (also very easy to supress from home or or legitamately). You can also buy what are called Aguila rounds which are primer fired and is no louder than an air rifle (though not very powerful at distance but as an "eargun" it would work). I use them when i put down my goats to eat. If it is stopping power you are going for a berretta 92 (9mm) is a great choice. You can still carry plenty of rounds and it is very simple to clean and maintain. IMO it is one of the best pistols ever made. If you do not care about how much the rounds weigh i would go with a 1911(45 acp). Rounds should still be plentiful and it is going to put down any threat. You will just have to decide what fit you and your situation the best. I hope this helps.

 

I would think a 22 would be good in a survival situation. You can carry alot of ammo for it and ammo is cheap to buy.

Upon further thought, a does .22 sounds like a good idea. Of course I would want a bigger if things were really messy, but I would also want a .22 pistol simply because the ammo would be so easy to find.

It would work to scare off unarmed attackers at least, and would work as a ninja weapon up close if used correctly.

Food for thought it be sure.

 

BTW it is not the size of the caliber it is how well you use it

 

That's what she said.

 

First gun sould go with revolver with minimal kick that U can learn acurately how to shoot
38 cal

 

For a self-defense handgun?

9MM

Best all around caliber?

.22LR

 

9MM, Glock 19, S&W M&P or c , Glock 17 for CCW/self defense depending on body size for concealment.

 

Get a 22 and learn how to use it. You can pick up a Ruger 1022 for cheap, and it will last you forever.

Once you learn the basics of gun safety and ownership, branch out and get something like a 9mm handgun, or a pump shotgun.

If you are going to buy a Glock, shoot it 20 times, and then stick it in a drawer for 2 years, don't even bother buying it. All you will do is get it stolen or hurt yourself or someone else when you do decide to pull it out.

 

Get a 22 and learn how to use it. You can pick up a Ruger 1022 for cheap, and it will last you forever.

Once you learn the basics of gun safety and ownership, branch out and get something like a 9mm handgun, or a pump shotgun.

I am thinking more and more a .22 pistol is the way to go first off.

And you are right, me thinks, about dropping $500 on a gun I will not use BUT if SHTF, $500 bucks now is not much considering. I do foresee a WW3 and/or another American civil war, or even say if the police force keeps getting cut due to budget constraints (an excellent article on this issue: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article27761.html), then a handgun in the hands of a properly trained owner is priceless.

 

I would opt for the .357 Magnum Revolver if I only had one handgun.

My reasons are many, but I'll give you some of my rationale. Revolvers are not ammo sensitive. If there is enough power to push the bullet out of the Barrel, you can shoot it without worry that it's too weak. You can also shoot loads that are too powerful for the autoloading pistol, and would batter the equivelent bottomfeeder to death. The Revolver withstands neglect better. Load it and put it in a sock drawer and in 30 years you can pick it up, blow the cobwebs off and shoot the bloody thing. I know because I've done this.

Revolvers have a simpler manual of arms. If you squeeze the trigger and it goes click, all you do is squeeze the Trigger again. You can determine if it's loaded at a glance. No worries with chambering the same round too many times and having bullet set-back.

The downside to a Revolver? Harder Trigger to master. They are the easiest to learn on, but the hardest to master. The ammunition payload is less, and that changes the tactics often times, but Revolver shooters who later transition to Autoloading pistols generally are better shooters. The Revolver forces one to learn to shoot, and not just make shotgun like patterns on paper.

Revolvers tend to point more naturally. It has been my expirience that a large autoloader is harder to hide than the equivelant revolver due to the revolvers curves. Yes, the revolver is thicker, but only in one spot. The autoloader is the same width throughout.

Revolvers can be fired through a coat pocket. Autoloaders will jam after the first round. Revolvers are better when carried in the pocket or on the ankle. Both of those locations lend themselves to dirt and grime getting on the gun. With the smaller pocket and ankle size autoloaders that often leads to a malfunction. In duty size handguns I think the Autoloader is equal to the Revolver in reliability.

Malfunctions with autoloader can most often be cleared quickly by the shooter. Malfunctions, which are very rare with a revolver, not only take the gun out of the fight but most often need a Gunsmith or somebody with a Vise and Mallet to get the gun up and running again.

My advice, get a Ruger 4" GP100 and shoot it often. You can do most of your practice with 38 Special Target Loads as you are learning and move up to either 38 Special or .357 Magnum defensive loads as you improve.

Edit To Add: After learning on the Revolver, I'd recommend Stainless Steel BTW, then you can move to a Glock 19. The reason I suggest the Glock 19 over the 17 is the 19 is the perfect compromise between concealability and size IMHO.

Biker

 

My advice, get a Ruger 4" GP100 and shoot it often. You can do most of your practice with 38 Special Target Loads as you are learning and move up to either 38 Special or .357 Magnum defensive loads as you improve.

Edit To Add: After learning on the Revolver, I'd recommend Stainless Steel BTW, then you can move to a Glock 19. The reason I suggest the Glock 19 over the 17 is the 19 is the perfect compromise between concealability and size IMHO.

I like what you have to say about a revolver and it's durability. It seems that I would not have to worry about spare parts so much, as it would survive longer then I would in many of the situations I can imagine. A speed loader would solve the ammunition problem.

How about a .22 revolver, or is that just not manly enough?

Also, between the Glock 17 and 19, which one would be easier to find spare parts and the such if all factories stopped producing today?

 

Having been in the Orient, your best bet is to get a decent 9 mm pistol of some sort. Most of the other calibers you listed are not going to be easy to get ammo for because a lot of that stuff is under very strict control or just isn't available at all. Another round that you will find over there is the 7.62 X 25 cartridges. You might want to consider that too.

If you're going to be in China, the 5.8 pistols are also going to be available to some degree too. I think that you will find that the 9 mm pistol will be a good option for most nations over there though. A Glock 19 makes a very good option as they have a Tennifer finish on them and can survive all sorts of climate changes. Heck, a lot of harbor police units and marine patrols use Glock pistols because they are so waterproof.

 

Having been in the Orient, your best bet is to get a decent 9 mm pistol of some sort.

A Glock 19 makes a very good option as they have a Tennifer finish on them and can survive all sorts of climate changes.

Another Glock 19 suggestion. Why not the 17 or 22? Size?

I am just concerned about availability of spare parts. Which Glock would have the most abundant and/or interchangeable pieces?

 

First guns

My first pistol was a 1911 by colt. But I have been shooting since my hands were big enough to hold the gun. For a beginner I think something like a beretta 92 or a glock 17. The nine mil is a easy to shoot caliber and the recoil is gentel enough for most people.

 

For a beginner I think something like a beretta 92 or a glock 17.

Berreta 92 fs would probably be the most durable. If you want something small get a glock sub compact.

Seems like we are getting somewhere. 9mm sounds like it is it (maybe after I get that .22 mini-revolver :thumb

Now, the Beretta looks very solid, but again, would I be able to find spare parts easily? I like it because it is in so many older spy movies AND looks like if I got a pre-2003 version, it would be all metal.

 

Berreta 92 fs would probably be the most durable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92

if you want something small get a glock sub compact.

 

Id go, either 9mm Autoloader, Price up to you, or .357 Revolver for def and 38spcl for practice! Gun if it feel comfortable thats what matters then worry about the name attached to it.

 

9mm. Most heavily used pistol round in the world. Good flat trajectory, decent ballistic characteristics, decent energy dump if you choose exotic or semi exotic defense ammo, and the Target FMJ is the cheapest you can find. Also in a SHTF fan situation it is more likely that you will find a 9mm laying around to harvest ammo from than any other caliber. The odds are just better in being able to locate ammo.

Plus you can take small, medium and if lucky or incredibly skilled large game with it. A head shot even at at 50+yds will bag the deer. The pistol itself should in my opinion be a Glock model 17 or a Beretta 92fs. I have both, and they are both EXCELLENT firearms.

My brother has had his Glock and Beretta for over 20 years and they both shoot like the day he first got them. Anywhere from 5000 Rd's through each.

I would suggest that if this is the first and last gun you will buy then purchase a few extra parts for back up. Get the 2 spring assembly, 2 firing pins, and trigger assembly...Just in case. The worst thing would be to have 1000's of rds of ammo and a gun that does not work. Be sure to buy 10-20 extra magazines. Take 5-10 of them and never load them but make sure to clean them at times. This will allow you to have a good magazine in the future when the other start wearing out.

Whatever gun you choose. Become an armorer to that pistol. Know it inside and out. Become INTIMATELY knowledgeable on the pistol, its function, and anatomy. I know it sounds funny or strange but become so knowledgeable that you can and do full take it apart and put it back together blindfolded. You never know when the eyesight will go.

Good luck friend.

 

9mm. Most heavily used pistol round in the world. Also in a SHTF fan situation it is more likely that you will find a 9mm laying around to harvest ammo from than any other caliber. The odds are just better in being able to locate ammo.

The pistol itself should in my opinion be a Glock model 17 or a Beretta 92fs. I have both, and they are both EXCELLENT firearms.

Get the 2 spring assembly, 2 firing pins, and trigger assembly...Just in case. Be sure to buy 10-20 extra magazines.

Thanks for the very useful advice! It was my plan to pick this one gun and stick with it, buy extra parts and keep them safe. Thanks for the heads up on which parts also. I did not consider buying so many mags, but if bought in bulk they would be much cheaper. Good to have them too.

Seems like as of now, the vote is between the Glock (which one?) and the Beretta. I am still leaning Glock because of international popularity (and therefore more standard parts) but the Beretta seems strong enough to handle a beating. Either way, I plan on sleeping with the gun (unloaded) just so we can get to know each other better.

Any more advice that can whittle down the running?

 

Glock 9mm or 40 cal. or 357 revolver

 

I highly recomend one of the 22mag/22lr convertible single actions, with at least a 5 inch barrel. The rugers and heritages are very accurate, very reliable. You can shoot anything from cb caps/22lrs/shorts/ switch the cylinder out and you can fire 22 magnums with good accuracy. Reason i say 5inch+ barrel is so you can have decent velocity with the 22 magnums, and it would be an alright defensive cartridge at 1500+ fps (roughly between the .380 and 9mm). These are the best survival pistols.

Also, i'd supplement it with a glock or some other proven centerfire handgun (or better yet, a rifle). This will upgrade your level of defensive firepower if you feel it necessary.

 

I highly recomend one of the 22mag/22lr convertible single actions, with at least a 5 inch barrel. The rugers and heritages are very accurate, very reliable.

Why a single action and not a double? I am looking into an older and used H&R .22 (for the low price) or an older Charter. I know people are saying these guns are way less well-made than a Rugar or S&W, but I also hear that the older models were reliable.

Too me a double action seems more useful, but maybe I am missing something? What do you think?

Don't even consider getting a gun while you are in China. You are under surveliance constantly. This is NOT paranoia. I don't bring a knife with me whe I travel to a country.

I totally agree with you on these points. In fact, being that I am writing from Beijing, I am sure they are reading this post right now. :taped:

My job is to travel and I am in and out of China, Europe and the States many times a month. I would NEVER travel with a gun (or a knife) and would never risk a life-long sentence in a wet Chinese jail cell for something that dumb. However, just so it is out there, tasers, billy clubs, air guns, etc. are locatable here, though I would still not risk traveling with them (but do know in may cases they can be checked in).

My plan is to have the firearm waiting in the states, for when I have time to practice and play, and if ever I buy a retreat in the Caribbean :thumb:, I will take it with me there.

If you want a revolver get a .357 so you can shoot either .357 or .38 spl. I'd recommend the Ruger SP101.

If you want an autoloader get a Glock 19 or a Glock 26 9mm. Either is a better choice than a Glock 17 which is too big for many concealment situations.

You're going to want a .22 handgun as well but not as your primary defensive weapon. Don't waste valuable shoulder real estate on a .22 rifle. The handgun can do most anything the .22 rifle can do.

When you do get a long gun, get an AK-47 or AK-74.

That SP101 looks prefect, and the price is right. Thanks also for the heads up on why a 19 is better than a 17. How about the 22? That one is very prolific.

It is looking more and more like my first handgun will be a .22, and then I will upgrade to Glock once I get a bit trained. I never consider that it would also function as a .22 rifle for shooting small game or kneecaps, so point well received. As you mentioned, no need to waste pack space, and minimalism is my favorite tenet.

Any advice on which .22 revolver best falls in the sturdy but cheap camp?

 

Yep the 9mm is a fine round. There is a plethora of ammo on the market. The 9mm has knock down power and controllablity. At the range just go with regular ole 115 grain fmj. For self defense bump it up with your favorite +P.

Note: There were Police organizations out there that dumped the use of .38 round because if its lack of immediate stopping power. The Louisiana State Police went with the .45 acp. I couldnt in good conscious recommend a .22 round for anything except target practice or more sinister uses not appropriate to discuss here.

 

First off, I've lived in Beijing and I travel internationally regularly. Don't even consider getting a gun while you are in China. You are under surveliance constantly. This is NOT paranoia. Talk to any of the ex-pats, or simply take a GOOD look the next time you pay 10 Yuan for a cab ride. You can see the mikes. (Are you living in 5th circle? That's where I was, and it is the center for most ex-pats.) Next, don't even try to carry a gun or even a bullet internationally. I am on the watch list and get flagged for a "random" bag search every time I travel. I think the only reason I got put on the watch list is I made three trips to China, a communist country in one year. (I worked both the Beijing Olympics and the Vancouver Olympics.) It is very very hard to legally bring firearms and ammo between countries. I don't know anyone who does it. And a couple people I know lead international tour groups. They can't even do it. The only way you can get a gun legally in a country is to have your paper work in order for you to legally be there. Then buy one while you are there - and only a very few countries will allow this even then. (I have a friend in New Zealand. I think he was able to buy a rifle, but I'm not 100% sure. Australia and New Zealand have both tightened gun control recently.)

I need to warn you BIG time. I was warned in England and in Germany simply for carrying a small pocket knife. I think the legal limit in Germany is 3 1/2 inches. It might be four. Mine was 6. When I was in England I was told I could be arrested for carrying a deadly weapon jusr for having ANY pocket knife. Be very very careful. Laws in other countries are extremely restrictive. (I saw three arabs getting reamed in Stitzerland simply for buying Swiss army knives that had only a microscopic blade. They had some kind of candy and security was checking fudge to make sure it wasn't plastic explosive in disguise.) Since Sept 11... you can't travel OUT of the US with anything. Don't even try.

I don't bring a knife with me whe I travel to a country. I buy one when I get there. It's the only way to do it. Guns... I wish. You can't do it. (And they often swab your bad for explosives. Don't ever use a bag you have carried bullets in. I don't know if they will show up on the swab or not... but if they do you get sent to the micro scan exam. I've only gotten sent to this once. They take EVERY single item out of your bags and go through the tiniest corner of everything.)

 

. . . I need to warn you BIG time. I was warned in England and in Germany simply for carrying a small pocket knife. I think the legal limit in Germany is 3 1/2 inches. It might be four. Mine was 6. When I was in England I was told I could be arrested for carrying a deadly weapon, just for having ANY pocket knife. Be very very careful. Laws in other countries are extremely restrictive. . . Since Sept 11... you can't travel OUT of the US with anything. Don't even try.

Not only will I not travel to other countries, I will not travel to socialists States in this country!!! I'll not give them any of my money or give up my freedom - screw them.

As for the Ops question of buying a first handgun, I'd highly recommend going to a range where you can rent their guns and try out the different calibers, and revolver vs semiautomatic. It would be money well spent. You want a gun you are comfortable with.

 

.357 - train with .38 special, get a lever gun in 38 spec / 357 and yer gtg

 

If you want a revolver get a .357 so you can shoot either .357 or .38 spl. I'd recommend the Ruger SP101, strong as an ox and easily concealable. The Ruger GP-100 is also a great gun but bigger.

If you want an autoloader get a Glock 19 or a Glock 26 9mm. Either is a better choice than a Glock 17 which is too big for many concealment situations. Both can use the Glock 17 17 rd mags for reloads and both are just as, if not more, accurate.

You're going to want a .22 handgun as well but not as your primary defensive weapon. Don't waste valuable shoulder real estate on a .22 rifle. The handgun can do most anything the .22 rifle can do.

When you do get a long gun, get an AK-47 or AK-74.

DogDoc

 

I have 45ACP/22LR its nice because you can convert it back and forth between 22LR and 45ACP- it takes like 5 minutes. This way you can get used to the 'feel' of the gun while shooting 22LR and not spend $$ on ammo, then convert it to 45ACP for real stopping power. Both calibers are very common and could be found after TSHTF.

 

cool combat upgrade options, esp. high capacity magazines, silencers, night sights, and flash suppressors that would fit my ninja fighting style.

Will this fit your ninja fighting style?

It would work to scare off unarmed attackers at least, and would work as a ninja weapon up close if used correctly.

How about this for your "up close ninja weapon"?

 

Get the mouse gun first. You can get a lot of practice shooting for minimal cost. 90% of the time it will be all you need and the skills you learn with the 22 will transfer over to any other gun when or if you decide to go bigger. At that time I would go for a .357 mag revolver with a wide variety of 38 spcl to 357 mag loads. But one gun or first gun I will always tell you 22. Pistol or revolver is irrelevant, there are a lot of guns out there that are time tested, rugged, easy to clean and accurate. I can't tell you what gun you will like in your hand, that is up to you.

 

Get the mouse gun first. You can get a lot of practice shooting for minimal cost.

Alright, that is the plan. A little .22 revolver it is.

I am actually on my way home from China now (in the Shanghai airport), checking out my local carry conceal laws, and formulating a practice plan. As is, I am going to get out with one of my city slicker buddies (who are really into this sort of thing) and up to the vast lake/forest area near the northern great lakes (I'm from Minnesota).

There we will have a little 2 week post-apocalyptic pre-enactment with my new little peacemaker. :thumb: Each man will only get one backpack to huff it with. We all grew up camping a lot, so it should not be too tough.

Actually, I have never skinned a squirrel and I am really looking forward to enjoying it caveman style over a fire. When SHTF I intend on surviving at least 90% of the peoples.

Thanks all for the great advice!

 

I bought it - update!

So I wanted to give an update on the gun I bought - my first survivalist gun.

It is a Beretta 21A Bobcat .22LR - Link here (for a while):

I went with a semi-auto simply because the revolvers I was looking at were priced out of my range. I got this piece used for $220 with 3 mags and the wood grips (I needed those grips) off of gunbroker. I am very happy with the semi-auto function simply because it is more complex and means more to learn at this point.

Initially, I was having really bad jamming issues. They were a major embarrassment because the first time I took it out to shoot (and any pistol in general), was for my carry conceal test. I passed, but only after cleaning it and staying after class to retake the test.

Since, I have learned that different ammo acts very differently (less jams) and keeping it clean is a major must. I got some sweet 15 cent spray at a garage sale made for lubing up electric razors that works like a charm, inside and out. Fully dismantling it was a scary experience the first time because I had no idea what I was doing, but after almost losing springs on multiple occasions, it all turned out okay.

Another point of interest is that people love to shoot it. I was told at the store that a gun this small (2.5 in barrel) will not be fun because of the high accuracy learning curve. As a counter point however, I brought it up to the farm and the ladies loved shooting it. In fact, everyone liked to shoot it. It is small, not too loud, and you can unload tons of ammo and not feel bad about the cost. The extra clips equal extra fun, and chicks dig this gun... even though that every time I show "a real gun owner" it, I still get made fun of. F'em.

About the accuracy: It is **** at first. Right out the gate, we all had trouble hitting body sized targets even 10 feet away, which was not fun for anyone. But with time also came skill, and by the end of the day I was able to hit a 3 inch metal target some 25 feet away 30% of the time (one out of 3 clips), while walking perpendicular to the target like in the movies. Ball'a! Everybody got better quickly too and in a couple of hours could hit water bottles, cans, and the such enough to be satisfied and still want more.

It still jams some (maybe one round in three clips if lucky), but I just finished up the mixed bullets I bought, and now plan to buy a lot of one kind to see if it is better. This part I like too, however. It's jamming is helping me train in the process of fixing a jam in the field, and also getting it in my head that I need to be prepared for anything. No tool is a savior. But I can still aim for kneecaps with this little beast, and at about the size of a big cellphone, they will not see it coming.

 

short barrel semi-auto rimfire cartridge- not what I would have chosen.
You have already starting experiencing 2 of the biggest issues on your "survival" weapon list- reliability and accuracy.
Semi-auto 22's have a history with feeding and ejecting issues because of the rimfire cartridge and any short barrel pocket gun like that is going to have horrible accuracy- purely an "up close and personal" weapon.
With you being a newbie and looking at the list of weapons and your requirements- a 22LR revolver, a 357 mag (that you can shoot 38 special with), or that Glock 17 should have been the only items you looked for.
Hey a gun is better then NO GUN.
http://www.impactguns.com/charter-arms-pathfinder-22lr-2in-stainless-steel-72224-678958722246.aspx
http://www.impactguns.com/taurus-mo...protector-5-round-357-mag-2in-barrelfixed-sightsshrouded-hammer-blue-651b2.aspx
The great thing about a revolver; cheap, simple, rugged and reliable (plus don't have to worry about policing that brass as much). The cons low capacity and poor accuracy if you want a CCW type short barrel.

 

short barrel semi-auto rimfire cartridge- not what I would have chosen.
You have already starting experiencing 2 of the biggest issues on your "survival" weapon list- reliability and accuracy.

With you being a newbie and looking at the list of weapons and your requirements- a 22LR revolver, a 357 mag (that you can shoot 38 special with), or that Glock 17 should have been the only items you looked for.
Hey a gun is better then NO GUN.

http://www.impactguns.com/charter-arms-pathfinder-22lr-2in-stainless-steel-72224-678958722246.aspx

The great thing about a revolver; cheap, simple, rugged and reliablel.

Thanks for bringing up this point again.

If I had to do it over, I think I would opt for that little CA Pathfinder. The revolver point is a big one esp if we are talking about survival. In fact, I am now thinking about getting one of those in addition to my own.

Just looking at all the parts for this little beretta, combined with having jamming issues in the field, is causing me to question the necessity for semi-auto at all. If I want capacity and speed, then I will have to find me an uzi, but if I want reliability in a real survival situation, maybe I should get a revolver.

BUT I absolutely love the fact that I can head over to walmart and get 600 bullets for 20 bucks. This is also another VERY important point. Without training any gun is useless, and I am starting to see that with practice, and despite what everyone is telling me, my little .22 could do some real damage. And with this in mind, that will be the next goal I will be working on: hitting targets while walking, smaller ones at further distances, moving ones, and even shooting while trail mountain biking! Keep in mind the fact that my gun is small with cheap bullets is the only thing allowing me to do this.

So my next gun will definitely be another little .22 (simply because I love it so much), or even a 9, but in revolver format. I just need to be able to trust that come World War 3, I will have at least one gun somewhere that will never need repairs or maintenance.

 

Whats best is dependant on where. If theres big thugs, 45 ACP. Urban, 9mm/40. If I was boonies, 357 mag would be great. Revolvers are sweet! Dangerous game, grizzly, 44 mag or bigger.

First pistol? I'd suggest a Glock 27. Subcompact, 9+1 .40 cal Big enough to use as a main pistol, small enough to conceal it for CCW. Light, reliable. Powerful. Get a 22LR conversion kit- a different slide/magazine for training and ability to stockpile thousands of rounds, for pennies compared to bigger rounds Small game hunting. And a 9mm conversion barrel, and a few G26 9mm mags Thus set up, cover 3 very popular rounds around for resupply

 

I think that's a good little gun to learn with. It will probably become your backup concealed carry gun some day. For WSHTF you should have guns chambered in common military calibres used in the US and by possible invading forces. 9mm lugar,5.56, .308, 50BMG, 12 gauge, and for invading forces 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 5.45x39.

A gun is a tool that transfers energy to a target from a distance. Look up wiki files on various calibres to get the idea of energy of each caliber. Remember that the width of the bullet is not as important as muzzle energy. The 22 is useless against a large animal or a tyrant but is a good tool to have along with a more powerful weapon. My advise is to find out what gun the government wants to ban and buy one because they fear civilians with that gun for a reason (AR15, AR10, AK47,etc).

 

I think that's a good little gun to learn with. It will probably become your backup concealed carry gun some day. For WSHTF you should have guns chambered in common military calibres used in the US and by possible invading forces. 9mm lugar,5.56, .308, 50BMG, 12 gauge, and for invading forces.

My advise is to find out what gun the government wants to ban and buy one because they fear civilians with that gun for a reason"

This is the soundest advice that fits my idea of the world so far. I went with the .22LR because of the bullets. WSHTF I will need something for headshots and gopher hunting, and if hell goes on for years, I will be the only one left with bullets.

My intention was a back up gun, and that is what I bought it for. It is funny how many people have seemed to miss that point. IT IS MY FIRST GUN, not the end all answer. Duh, of course in a war-like situation I will want bigger bullets, duh, but I also need a pocket gun.

And so far, after shooting off some 1000 or so rounds, I have learned ALOT that I never knew before. From cleaning to fixing jams, to stance to speed reloading. I am also getting to be a good enough shot for my needs. Quickly unloading a clip into a body sized target (aiming for neck and head) at about 25 feet is doable, and I could kill a deer if I was awesome enough to sneak up on it.

I have owned my Beretta 92 for many years. If it is maintained properly it will last a long time. I think it is excellent choice for a first gun. After you get proficient with it you can decide what is right for you.

It does seem to be a solid gun, and I got it used. Right now I am having too many non-ejector issues though and looking into some method of gunsmithing to fix it. I do suspect this gun will outlast me though, and I have read online about many happy people who feel that their gun collection is incomplete without a pop-up barrel mini-beretta.

It is sweet that I can keep it unloaded, and quickly pop up the barrel to insert a single bullet (much like a revolver), and get it off fast even without a clip inserted. I like it!

Many parts with a big potential to break.

Also for a beginner not as easy to handle.

One thing I did learn however, by buying this gun, is that I do need a revolver. The whole parts thing, even if it is a glock, seems like too big a risk if and when SHTF.