I wonder if there are in-land pirates?

 

Of course there would be but not nearly as many as the roving band of hungry zombies on land. If you are vigilante you would have a very wide field of view for longer range defense. Plus your platform would probably be more stable than any attackers.

 

Sounds like a good idea...except 2 guys with rifles and a cross fire and your screwed...unless you were in the middle of like Lake Erie..

 

Maybe so but unless they are crack marksmen with decent rifles 300 yds on each side should negate that.

 

Easy to slip up on you in the night.

 

Not for a meth addict A dog still has a nose on a boat. I wouldn't be alone so look outs would be possible.

Probably a lot harder than on land. Plus you could change locations regularly that would make a planned attack less likely.

 

At night, guy in a canoe could ease up to within 20 feet of you and shoot you with any gun he desired.

And as mentioned above, a guy with an M1A, or other serious rifle could sit in the woods and make your life hell unless it was a VERY big lake.

 

Maybe you got a desert frame of reference but most lakes it is easy to get 1000+ yds away from the shores. Here in Georgia our lakes are not huge but still big enough to out range most rifles. Back home in Louisiana some lakes are miles across.

A boat can move and finding a boat in the dark might not be the trivial task you think. Rowing is a lot of work and besides trolling motors are super quiet.

Granted this is day dreaming but I still think the hazards might be less than on land. Lots of area to cover and it would take some boat or effort to mount an attack. One big ol moat around you.

 

okay, distance may be your defense. Just remember that being in the middle of a lake makes you a large target with not much else to getting in the way and i can skip rounds off the water...

 

I have actually given this a lot of thought. The problem I always come up with is that bodies of water are going to be focal points of activity. If it is a long and extended SHTF, then people will camp near water, build near water, look for food in water etc. Lakes will be swamped with people I think. Now the Ocean, that is a different animal. But a lake would be tough unless, like someone said earlier, it is a huuuuge lake. Also remember, if someone climbed 40 feet high, they can see for miles and miles further onto a horizon. Seeing something as out of place as a houseboat in the middle of a lake may be an invitation to investigate.

 

All good points. thank you.

 

I appreciate your take on it RW, but I think you are looking at it like a zombie outbreak or something.

That is not to say it cannot be done, it can, and we have some BIG lakes out west too, but I would prefer to be on land, with dogs, ability to move and hunt, group with other like-minded folk.

I guess I sort of view it like retreating into a hidey-hole or nuke bunker. I would rather just go ahead and die than live like a rat in a hole, but I would take your houseboat over a hole in the ground.

 

Target. All things would indicate you have food, fuel and other supplies.

See how accurate you are with a weapon of any kind on board a bobbing boat. Your opponents only need to be accurate enough to punch holes into pontoons. Most folks fantasize of being in the offensive position when it comes to battle. Being in the defensive position on open water with absolutely no where to go, no shallow water sailors to bail you out, and an unknown number of intent, hungry aggressors does not sound appealing. There isn't much defensive action going on when you are pinned to the floor ducking rounds.

 

The idea has some merit but also a lot of risk. I think what would worry me the most in a defensive situation is the lack of cover. At least you can find or build cover on land. If a boat was taking rounds, there's no safe place to return fire from.

You'd have plenty of fresh water, but sooner or later would need to make landfall for food and other supplies. That would be an invitation to be ambushed.

Now an offshore sailboat might be the ultimate survival setup if someone has had world sailing experience. In his travels he has probably come upon several uninhabited areas that have resources.

 

...You'd have plenty of fresh water, but sooner or later would need to make landfall for food and other supplies. That would be an invitation to be ambushed...

Agree.

A boat is ok for short term. You'd be likely to dodge the first couple of weeks of SHTF when people on land were fighting to secure food, water, and shelter supplies. After that, your house boat is nothing but a mugger's beacon for the strong groups who survived and are looking to comandeer more and more preps and resources.

As was mentioned, even if you weren't shot, stormed, or pirated while out on the lake, you'd come to eventually run out of food on the boat. When (not if) you have to dock, you'd then be worn down, alone, and facing organized groups of armed settlers who would be surely camping along any fresh water lake shore. They'd know the territory and possibly have ambushes and traps set up, and you don't. They are on steady ground and dug in defensively while you are on a bobbing boat and easy to see coming. They have numbers, you don't. Not good... basically survival chance of zero IMO. You'd basically be trading the likely early death on land in the initial SHTF for a slow but sure death. Depends on your goals, I guess. Be sure to save a couple bullets for yourself if you take the boat route.

The only real shot at boat survival would be taking a boat and a fresh water island - or group of islands. However, if the island is big enough to sustain animals, have springs, etc, then it'll certainly attract other nearby settlers. Any spot that's easy to defend is also a death trap if the attack is successful. I think that if you must bug out, you are still much better off trying to group up on land and use diplomacy (violence as your alternative) for control of sustainable, farmable territory near fresh water.

 

I've thought about this myself as well.

Personally I don't think it's too bad of an idea. Most of the "downsides" posted here are relevant in other land-based BOL's as well. I think most folks smart enough to have firearms during SHTF would also be smart enough not to take pot-shots at a target of unknown value 300-400yards away. I mean, what would be the purpose of sinking a houseboat in the middle of a lake, other than wasting ammo? Suppose you did manage to wound or kill everyone on board, and the boat is still seaworthy, how do you get to it? How do you even know if there's anything worth the bullets on board?

I do agree that lakes, campgrounds, etc. will definitely be areas where people flock during SHTF. Seeing someone in apparent "comfort" floating on a houseboat in the middle of the lake for days or weeks on-end, the pack mentality may take over and send a crew of crazed non-preppers after you. You will have to come ashore eventually for supplies, and that might not be easy depending on how crowded the lake is.

 

Don't forget about inclement weather either. One big storm with high winds could screw up plans big time. A little pontoon ride a few years ago just about killed every sibling and cousin that I had. Nice clear day with bright sunshine. Out of nowhere the sky turned black. The pontoon was on the other side of the lake (very small lake, 240 acres). The wind started and turned it sideways up in the air and the little kids all fell out. For whatever reason it didn't completely flip over. The teenagers pulled the little ones out of the water (all wearing life jackets!) and somehow got the pontoon pointed down wind (towards home). My brother was driving and said that he couldn't see 15 feet in front of the boat. The wind then picked up the back end of the pontoon and it nose-dived flooding the deck. He somehow kept it pointed downwind (no other choice since he tried going into the wind at full throttle and was losing ground). He pointed it pretty good apparently because he crashed into a dock (at a very high speed) and everyone landed on the deck again. The whole time the women and men of the family were running along the shoreline trying to find bodies. If I hadn't been there I never would have believed it. This was in western wisconsin on a small lake.

I'm betting a houseboat would make a much bigger sail than a big pontoon. I think I'd personally rather be on dry land.

 

Sound like a temporary solution to remain isolated and safe during a crisis. Once you run out of fuel, you are no longer mobile. Once you run out of food, you are totally dependent on fishing. Once you are spotted you are likely to be attacked, ultimately you will be burned out and killed.

On the other hand, many of the large lakes and reservoirs (even large rivers) have large islands. If you used smaller row boats, kayaks, and canoes not dependent on fuel, you could remain mobile. Some of the islands are large enough to plant gardens and crops. You could live in temporary shelters and tents. You have all the advantages of a house boat and less of the disadvantages.

I think that a medium sized alluminum john boats set up with oars and covered with camo and cat tails would be near impossible to spot on a lake with a lot of islands. If it also had a canvas covering and a bug net it would be heaven during the summer months.

Winter is going to suck on the water. Perhaps built a permanent shelter on one of the large islands.

 

I've wanted to do that for years. It's on my to-do list, but I never considered it as a BOL. Great idea, as long as you have productive and protected land in various places to support it.

 

I have thought about this quite a bit. The one key problem with most houseboats is that they suck a LOT of gas when you move them. Frequent relocation might be the key to make this work.

I think that rivers would be a better bet for this also. There are a lot of uninhabited stretches of river in this country. Pulling a houseboat into a slew and camoflaging the front would keep the high speed "tourists" away. This would be a good way to hunt also. Keep a crossbow handy. After a few days deer will ingnore the boat while they try to slip by unseen.

Our backup plan is a 40ft trawler yacht. More seaworthy and it has a diesel engine. Economical to use. The windbaggers (sailboaters) have a whole slew of things available for renewable power. Check out jack rabbit systems. Wind scoops are a must for ventilation.

 

I think that rivers would be a better bet for this also. There are a lot of uninhabited stretches of river in this country. Pulling a houseboat into a slew and camoflaging the front would keep the high speed "tourists" away. This would be a good way to hunt also. Keep a crossbow handy. After a few days deer will ingnore the boat while they try to slip by unseen.

Rivers will once again be mega-highways once roadways are destroyed/blocked.

 

Lake Powell

Lake powell is a good place to hide out in the winter time. Never freezes, lots of fish and birds, no roads around the shore. Lots of small canyons. Plenty of overhangs, etc. If I were a wanted man waiting for the heat to die down give me a small boat on Powell and 50 gallons of gas.

 

Lake powell is a good place to hide out in the winter time. Never freezes, lots of fish and birds, no roads around the shore. Lots of small canyons. Plenty of overhangs, etc. If I were a wanted man waiting for the heat to die down give me a small boat on Powell and 50 gallons of gas.

I just googled Lake Powell. What a beautiful place. Not near on the same scale but just about all the lakes here in Georgia are dammed with lots of coves and weird shapes.

 

Sounds like fun to me. If there was an island in the lake would greatly improve your chances. Also if there were several houseboats that could anchor together would be a better deterrent.
Sounds better than holed up in a cabin with wolves circling in the treeline waiting for you to poke your head up and blow it off.

 

mmmmmm....

Sitting duck?

 

In a lake you're trapped. I like the idea of a coastal houseboat. As long as you have fuel and a way to make water your safe and set for the time being. I can't argue with the coastal sailboat is the way to go though. The ablility to have freedom of movement is the key. Being dependant on gas will always limit your movement. Outside of the Great Lakes are their any in land lakes big enough that a 30-06/308 cant't hit you from shore? Remember without reinforcement all no hull will stop a high power bullet. The ablility to make water, and freedom of movement will be the keys to safety on any boat used as a BOL.

 

I actually think I already said this? No?

 

This is a little extravagant, but something in the 45 foot size would be workable for most.

http://www.gocekturkey.com/Scorpio72.htm

 

Outside of the Great Lakes are their any in land lakes big enough that a 30-06/308 cant't hit you from shore?

You seriously need to get out more.

 

Granted I spoke off the cuff, it was a stupid comment. Being in Fla there is always lake Okeechobee.(yeah I know i just contradicted myself) If it wasn't for the locks you'd have to pass through to get to the Gulf or the Atlantic it would be a good choice. Plus the winter weather whouldn't be that bad!! For most people though "big" is relative. If its big enough to have houseboats on it its big. But is it big enough to be really safe? Many large lakes have choke points you'd have to move through to move around the lake. I agree with the others that the main thing to keep in mind when considering a housboat or any boat for that matter for a BOL. Is the ability to "Harden" your craft from rounds fired. Swiss cheeze comes to mind if you're not "harden". You must turn your boat into a Fortress if you are to have any chance against an attacker.

Maddy check the time of our posts, I'm slow at typing and your post wasn't available when I was responding with mine. Something about great minds though

 

IF you are going to use a boat as a BOL, I'd suggest having a very robust damage control kit:

Plugs (wooden)
Tampons (yes they actually work and can fit a bullet hole at the water line)
sheets of rubber gasket material
hose clamps
electrical zip ties
c-clamps
decent set of stainless wrenches
basic tools
spare spark plugs/basic motor part spares
12" x 12" plywood squares for patching hull (can be cut to size and screwed into hull for a patch)
dozen tubes of waterproof putty (JB Weld and simialr products)

This is just off the top of my head.

IF you were also considering a boat as a BOL I'd suggest having a set up where you had an inboard / outboard motor AND a sail. Wind is free when you run out of gas or trying to conserve. Trawlers fit this decsription. I lived aboard 2 different sailboats for 3 years in total and seen on more than one occasion a boat get into trouble because the owner didnt think ahead and have the basic fundmental idea that when you are on the water it is only a matter of time before it will find a way inside your boat.

 

Boats

Okay, this just touched a nerve that has been a lifelong passion and dream of mine.

I've always wanted to live aboard a boat.

I have lived aboard a boat and it was wonderful and hard.

I should have stuck with it.
It was always one of my strongest desires.

Now that I'm old and live confined to a home with walls instead of a hull, with a floor instead of a deck, a kitchen instead of a galley, a pickup truck instead of a marine engine or sails, a bed that doesn't give me good sleep because it doesn't rock me to sleep like a berth...

My point is, if you've got something that you love and you know is right for you, the hell with the zombies and long range rifles.
If you believe in it, you should live it and fight for that way of life.

It's what freedom is all about.

Wheel

 

I too carry the live aboard dream. People do it all the time, often for many years. I hope to as well, or at least for a few before I am too old to. I think it is a great spartan lifestyle, and once your boat is set up, can be very cheap.

As for SHTF, think of all the marinas there are on coastal waters? There are a lot of boats there, owned by rich Sheeple that will likely be abandoned as they never think of going out to open waters would be a good idea.

Why isn't it a good idea? well simple, because 99% of the boats are pleasure cruisers. They get stocked with booze, an afternoon's lunch and gass for the day, but little else.Even the sail boats are generally small, and not really meant to be lived on by thier owners. They are weekend toys, unstocked, and not set up for long term voyages.

Now, the minority of those who live aboard rarely, if ever leave the dock, because they are still teathered to society. Sure, maybe they move around a bit, and do a voyage or two here and there, but very few are set up to travel indefinitely. They are tied to land based jobs.

Now, if one were to set up their lives to live off of fishing, Anchoring out,and exploring, I am sure a boat would be the best BOL ever. Even Pirates would be of little concern,and here's why.

In the days of Piracy, there were well establish communities that traded with Spain, England and East Asian countries. In the Caribbean for example, there were well established trade routes, with regular shipments of goods and Gold going back and forth making easy, predictable targets for Pirates. After SHTF you won't have that.

What you will have are a small handful of live aboards who were living aboard prior to SHTF that are so far and few between that chances are you will never run into a hostile one. This is especially true because the sea provides in great quantity.

Piracy today depends on Fuel. It's done with small, short range, high speed boats. After SHTF where will they get the fuel? If there is no trade, and no fuel, there are no Pirates, becasue there is no easy, predictable way to profit from the activity. Going out on the empty waters every day will just be a waste of precious resources.

Also, lets say our Pirate freinds do manage to do this and find you. They are gong to be leary of a raid for one simple reason, they don't want to be shot out of the water and sunk either. A show of force will likely deter any further attack for a weaker target.

Another thing, a live aboard sail boat can sit darn near the horizon, well out of range and observe areas with telescopes normally used for start gazing and can then determine where it is safe to come close to land *IF* need be. One could cruise a safe distance, searching for speed boats, and only come in where none can be seen in range under the cover of darkness the next night. This would allow for some foraging,and light hunting. This would be especially profitable since areas that are safe would probably be the same remote shoreline areas all the game has been driven to from land based refugees.

A good sail boat has the full range of the ocean. It will be in the least populated areas there are on earth, and ultimately because of that, the least danger from raiders, marauder's and other common land based dangers.

 

Multihull

I vessel I lived aboard was a multihull.
A trimaran, but I like cats too.

We beached her when we wanted to come ashore, or we anchored off and swam ashore just for the hell of it.

You cant just beach a single hull sailboat at high tide and expect to jump back on her in twelve hours and sail away.

By the way, sails don't last forever and fall apart eventually.
Especially if you don't know how to take care of them.

Wheel

 

I vessel I lived aboard was a multihull.
A trimaran, but I like cats too.

We beached her when we wanted to come ashore, or we anchored off and swam ashore just for the hell of it.

You cant just beach a single hull sailboat at high tide and expect to jump back on her in twelve hours and sail away.

By the way, sails don't last forever and fall apart eventually.
Especially if you don't know how to take care of them.

Wheel

Wheelgunner,

Which design trimaran did you have. I built a Searunner 31 quite a few years ago. My father-in-law was one of Norman Cross's major builders also.

Finally went to catamarans for the beachability.

If you haven't owned one, you cannot imagine the expense of refitting a sailboat or even a power boat for that matter.

We still live on our trawler about 2 to 3 months a year and spend the rest of the time at our retreat. I do love the boat more but it is not practical if TSHTF. Too much expensive outside support is needed to keep it going. I do all the maintanance myself but parts and fuel can be very expensive.

I was hoping that the Bahamas would lower their entry fee from $300 to something more reasonable now that tourism is down due to the economy. Haven't seen it yet though.

 

Lived on an old 29' Seafarer and switched up to a 40' Benateau...