[lasers]

How big is your family? And, where are you considering building?

7 now. I assume the oldest two will be moving out before then and the third won't be long after that.

In northern Wisconsin.

Right now we live in a commercial building(was a funeral home) in about 2 weeks time I rigged up about 600 square feet of it into our home. It was meant to be for a couple years but it is now 6 years later and we are planing to be here the next 2 or 3 years. We are quite used to living in a building that was intended for a different use so I think the change of more or less camping in a house wouldn't be that big of a shock.

 

[lasers]

Where you're building (geographically and the site itself) will determine a lot of the decisions you'll need to make. You're obviously expecting quite a bit of snow. But beyond just climate-terrain, water table, closeness of neighbors, building codes, etc. will go a long way in shaping your final plan. Just from what you've said, metal roofs, A-Frames, and centralized wood stoves are all popular in northern Michigan. Good luck!

I don't really know where I will be building other than probably northern Wisconsin. I said 10 feet of snow, realistically(other than this year) 3 or 4 feet would be on the high end. Our current "home" has a 100 foot long flat roof that requires CONSTANT maintenance and even then constantly leaks.

It also has high ceiling and little insulation and no room to easily add more insulation so heating it is excessively expensive, we keep the thermostat at 58 in the day and 50 at night.

The property I have in mind(may or may not be the property we build on) is in zone 3a. Heavy clay soil. Water table is about 12 feet below the surface. The ground water is brown if you have a 20 foot point or a 300 foot drilled well. The building site has a well, holding tank and electric run to it. It has a 40x 80 modern pole shed and a 1950's trailer house. Patches of hardwoods and pines and several fields. The main building site is a 4 acre it also has several larger fields. Large swamp to the north, 3 acre privet pond to the east and field to west and south.

I think building code requires a minimum of 720 square feet and at least 14 feet wide(they don't want trailer houses moved in) There are neighbors every 100-300 acres. I would add the extra 120 square feet as a green house on the south side of the home.

I am not a big fan of A frames but would go with a 6/12 or steeper pitch with a load bearing wall down the center of the house so the larges unsupported length that would have to be spanned would be 9 1/2 feet.

 

[lasers]

The cheapest construction that I have found is dry stacked cinder block with every 3rd or 4th hole with rebar and filled with concrete. Coated inside and out with surface bonding cement. Very cost effective, fire resistant (nothing is totally fire proof), decent thermal mass if the holes are filled with dirt. Metal trussed roof with metal roofing.

For cooling, I would run 12" galvanized pipe at least 4 foot underground on a downhill angle, with floor vents inside and a roof vent at the top of the roof to vent heat out and pull the cool air in.

Plumbing and electrical aren't that expensive to rough in when you are building but could be a hassle after the fact.

That is one of the cheapest quickest ways to build a shelter. The reason I didn't give it any real consideration was insulating it can be problematic and expensive.

Ideally the insulation should be on the outside to keep the thermal mass on the inside so that would require the insulation to be water proof and to be covered with something to protect it. Insulation on the inside could be foam glued to the walls with Sheetrock glued to that or framed with 2x4's and fiberglass insulation then sheet rocked. Insulating on the inside causes you to loose the benefit of the thermal mass.

As far as the cost of adding plumbing and electric later, you are mostly right. But in our current home we added plumbing to the kitchen afterwords and all that was required was to drill three holes in the floor then install an antique sink/drainboard/cabinet combination. Our bedrooms all have a single outlet and a lamp. No other wiring. But you are right. I should plan for adding those systems later and if it will be in an area that it will be more expensive to do it later I should rough it in right away.

Even though I am disagreeing with you on a few points I appreciate your input, it gives me things to think of that I didn't think of before.

 

[lasers]

..Have done a Ton of research / planning for Our BOL future-place, and we're going Strawbale, all the way... :thumb: Cover pretty much All the things / aspects you want in a 'BOL' home, and very few of those you don't..

..Tawk to Aerindel, herein..

.02
j

Arendels house and plumbing is very roughly what I have in mind although smaller, rectangle, and one floor (+ partial basement)

 

[lasers]

One story or two?
One floor with a 8 foot basement under half of it



Cool I know about. Taller the ceiling the better with perhaps a whole house fan [not necessary for you I think.] and ceiling fans in all rooms. So say you have only a half second floor. So a high ceiling in half the space --20-15] In the cold season, which sounds like most of the time, if you had a wood stove in the lower open section the upper space would be well heated. If you just want one floor, then still high ceilings and have transoms over the doorways to provide movement of either hot/cold air. Passive solar heating -- windows south and west, unless west is the prevailing winter wind. Or have a greenhouse addition added to the house. Knew a nice one added to a house in PA.

Cooling is no where near as large a consideration as heating. Higher ceilings and lofts make a building harder to heat in the winter. My wife's grand parents had a stone "house" with a camper parked inside it in the desert. They had a tunnel under ground to bring air in and cupolas in the roof to let the warm air out. That way air was sucked in through the tunnel and cooled and as it warmed it went out through the cupolas causing more to be sucked in through the tunnel cooling the house It was much cooler inside than out.





Made of metal, stone, concrete, brick. Use metal interior framing too. Metal -- brain freeze -- that stuff under the eaves, mostly plastic these days. A way to block any venting in the attic before you leave the house. If you weren't in such a cold environment I'd suggest piping for water for the roof.

Believe it or not, in the winter you want as much air flow in the attic in from the eaves and out the ridge as you can get. If the attic doesn't have good ventilation it causes the snow on the roof to melt. when the water gets to the cold eaves it freezes and creates a dam, water and ice build up behind the dam and cause water leaks

Don't know about tornado resistance -- how do those A frames handle against high winds as opposed to 'flatter' roofs.
I don't know
10 feet of snow!!!!!! you're back to a steeper roof. Metal should aid in sliding the snow off. Have you contemplated a shed type roof? Still can be metal. Face the high end of the roof south for the sun.

10 feet is an exaggeration, other than this year 4 feet would be considered an unusually large amount of snow to have on the ground but I want it to be able to hold anything nature throws at it. I would also rather build it strong enough to support the load than plan on it sliding off. Eventually the snow is deeper then the eaves and it no longer has a place to go unless you hire someone with a bobcat to come move the snow from your building so your roof snow has a place to go( a common problem this year.)[




Do you mean using solar or just minimal electricity? Wood cook stove also for heating. More windows mean more light during the day, but more heat loss or gain depending upon the time of year.

I mean I want it the opposite of our home now, If we loose electric our home is next to worthless. Our bathroom is in the basement, there are no windows in the basement without electric light it is a problem even in the day. Our building is 100 feet long and it only has 4 windows, all on the east side, the bedrooms and kitchen need electric light even in the day. We rely on electric pumps to get water to our house, Our town sewer also relies on electric lift pumps to remove sewage( we are on the high side of town so it would effect us last)

I would like a home that functions well with absolutely no electric that way when we add a single car battery it will feel like we won the lottery(growing up we had a trailer house as a cabin, eventually we wired it with one single light bulb and a car battery we had a celebration and invited company over to show it off, I also know an older couple that lives in a small log cabin their only electric is a marine battery they charge once a week at church. They do have a solar panel but it is sill in its box that it has been in for the last 5 years, they don't think it is worth the hassle of setting it up.




Insulated concrete forms

best insulation most fire resistant best able to handle high winds most expensive

I kind of dislike the ICF's cause of cost and the styrofoam needs to be covered, it also produces the most toxic smoke if there were to be a fire in the house.


Building a garage then parking a camper or school bus partial inside with the garage being the living/work room and the bus or camper being the bedrooms and kitchen.

not in winter I don't think
Maybe. We have been discussing buying a bus and moving into that, In the winter dig a cut into a hill side, park the bus next to the cut then build half a hoop house over the bus


Yes, I know I prefer to live in FLA, but go for the electric first. Heat can just be the matter of dealing with an open space with a wood stove.

Other than for a freezer I think we could get along quite well with very little electric if we have a generator for pumping large amounts of water and the occasional power tool need.



Sounds ok. But I always think 2 toilets are better; composting or not.

Right now we only have one bathroom and other than having to limit shower length because we only have a 10 gallon water heater it works fine.



You'll need a small separate building for the generator to prevent carbon monocide poisoning. Don't they make propane generators? Since you are thinking propane elsewhere?

I am assuming it would simply be a portable generator that would be pulled out when needed, rather then wired in, gas is also much more portable then propane


Sounds even better. If your land is slanted you can do a walk out basement.

There is a walk out there now but but I don't know if I would build in the same location due to high ground water level right there,


Well, the biggest thing is I wouldn't build in northern Wisconsin.

20 by 30. Even if I didn't do rooms upstairs, I'd put a loft in. Just a space to put company and stuff. A space to sleep in the three days out of the year it is hot up there. While multiple wood stoves are possible, placing your main one in the middle of your home will maximize access to the warmness. A porch on the north side with a steep roof. No need to worry about blocking light/sun but increases 'snow distance' from the house. An AIRLOCK type entry so you don't let in half of the blizzard every time you open the door.

30 by 30 sq. Mostly Shed roof of whatever decent steepness to handle snow facing south to maximize sun melting. Greenhouse on west side. Last 10 feet of north roof goes down at whatever slope. Main wood stove in center. Very small loft area because of steepness of roof.

Next, there are also those 'truncated' A frames. Sometimes the 'top' is flat, sometimes a milder slope. Results in two sides being 'roof'.

Insulate. Insulate. Insulate.

 

[lasers]

Whatever you build, build it with old age, wheel chairs, etc. in mind. Also put in a lot of extra electrical capacity, so if you need a lot of medical equipment, your house is prepped to support it. Old age/infirmity is much more likely than TEOTWAWKI. Also sufficient infrastructure to support technology like computers and smart home. You may never put it in, but if you become seriously disabled, this could mean the difference between independence/at home, or going to an old folks' home

Some good points about aging. The biggest way that I know of to have a home ready for aging is building it on a single level. If you have to go up and down stairs inside your home it could become unlivable with mobility problems. How ever I do want stairs to get into the house.(a ramp could always be built in the future) The front door on our current building is about and inch above the sidewalk. Every time we get a major rainfall or quick snow melt I worry about water backing up into the doorway and into the basement.

I also do not want anything "smart" in my home. I can't even buy energy efficient light bulbs without them being"smart home ready", I don't really want that in my home. I may change my mind on that if for some reason I need it in the future.

I also don't want to put in a large electric system. Other then a few LED lights and maybe the ability to run a TV and charge a phone I don't want much need of electric. I would have a generator for running a water pump and running power tools when needed but I would rather do without as much as possible.

 

[lasers]

Attached is a long, somewhat rambling article, with some duplication as well, about my thoughts on Prepper Housing ideas. While it is far more than requested, of course, it does contain information I think might be useful for long-range planning as well as for immediate.

Most of what you suggest is well beyond my budget and beyond what I want for mechanical systems. In my mind simpler and more natural is better.


Although I will for sure be willing to use cement (not natural) for the basement and foundation because their is no material better that is cheap and available, and I will be willing to use Sheetrock rather than lumber on interior walls because it is cheap, quick and is very good for containing or slowing a fire.

Otherwise most materials will be something I harvested myself (strawbales and lumber) or second hand from garage sales, auctions or give aways.

I would consider application of some type of fire retardant to the trusses in the attic, it could be as simple as a lime wash or coat of water glass or a modern chemical designed to make wood fire resistant.

 

[lasers]

Congratulations





Go with a steel building.





Go with a steel building.





I have a steel building, and it sounds just like what you have been describing.

Steel building can mean a lot of things, can you put up a link that give me an idea of the type you have in mind?

 

[lasers]

Build an underground home. You can consider throwing in a clear skylight.





I'd want a well and geothermal system dug. I'd do an underground structure. I'd throw in the underground greenhouse area at the same time.



.

I have given a lot of thought to an underground or earth sheltered home. But I have never been in one that didn't feel like a basement(clammy and dim)

I have seen the price of drilling geothermal wells and a water to air heat exchange. It would cost almost as much as what I want to spend on building a house.

I intend to do all the work myself.

 

[lasers]

The structure is relatively cheap no matter what you do .
I built a 36x36 12’ High wall and a 9 pitch roof the house has a 10’ Roof all around and a 32x24 garage on the south side .
Its built on solid rock with gravel 2” of blue board and 4/5” of concrete floor
1/2 pipe for radiant heat .
Walls are 6 and 8 “thick with 1” foam on the out side and 3 “ of foam around the foundation .
I used 36’ Ipi floor joists 3/4 “ ply wood on the second floor and walls .
Pourch roof garage roof and 22’ house roof rafters are 3x10 all Rough cut hemlock from the serounding area .
Siding is hemlock board and batten siding , windows are Anderson .
3 bath rooms WD kitchen 800 foot , well septic
On top of a Mountain in the middle of nowhere .
I burn 20 splits a day in a wood stove and stay at 67o when it’s -15 out
In the summer the house stays at 64 inside my warmest afternoon hit 67o
It is hard to run elec and plumbing after the fact .
The house runs on 16 battery’s and a roof full of solar panels and Honda generator for back up. We built the foundation and framed the place in3 months just my son and I
A buddy of mine ice shielded and shot 58sq of shingles on in 3 days with our help .

Finishing the place is a real bear .
Getting the place closed in roofed and paper was nothing compaired to the plumbing elec insulation bath fixtures stairs trim flooring for both floors windows doors walks sheet rock and Spackle it never ends .

I realize the shell is the cheapest part of a typical house. That is why I want to build a shell then stop.

As far as running electric and plumbing afterwords I would only have plumbing in the center wall and one spigot outside. and with a basement it should be easy enough to get underneath it to drill holes to run the plumbing and electric. I would also be fine with running the plumbing and wiring outside of the walls if it is done neatly.

Also to make the electric system easier I wouldn't put lights in any of the rooms, just one or two electric outlets at the most in each room then use lamps. Our current "house" has one light switch that turns on every light upstairs so most of the time we use lamps instead. Not having overhead lighting was actually very common in homes built about the time electric came to the area, everyone used lamps or chandlers that had a pull switch and a long cord that went up to the ceiling, over too the wall and down to a socket near the floor.

 

[lasers]

I wouldn't use a ventless propane heater for backup. I had one in a previous house, and it caused a film on my windows. Getting a film in your lungs can't be good for you.

I have a propane wall stove in my new digs. It has a remote thermostat so it does better at maintaining an even temp. than a stove with a built in thermostat, but it DOES NOT USE ANY OUTSIDE ELECTRIC POWER. I use ceiling fans to move heat around the house. The space above doorways are open. I have used my wall stove as my primary heat for several years and it works very well.

I question what that film is. I would only go with ventless if I didn't intend to use it. If I intended to use it I would go with a direct vent that can be run off the power created by the flame sensor.

 

[lasers]

Depends on the property. Some places are still free, even in this country.

My current neighbor is an architect, as long as I sing something that says he isn't responsible he will rubber stamp just about any plan that looks like it will not collapse under its own weight for a couple hundred $. From there the building inspector doesn't care what I do because it is no longer on him if things go bad. .

Lasers,

I think you have your head on straight. I fear you will run into many of the same problems I did when I started asking for advice. (more than a decade ago)

You will run into people who live in conventional houses with conventional ideas telling you to do conventional things..

You will run into people who have thought a lot about this and come up with a wish list of what they would do......if they won the lottery. Genuinely good ideas but which area a fantasy wishlist.

You will run into people who make more in a year than you will make in your life who have actually built really cool places but which can't really help you because how they build houses is from an entire other reality than what you live in.

You will run into people have built houses for very little money....and who had no idea what they where doing and as such built buildings that they end up abandoning after five years because someone told them that instead of stucco they should plaster their strawbale house with manure. (true story)

Its really hard to find information on low cost, alternative, QUALITY construction. You end up having to do a lot of your own research. Read everything you can on the style you want, read how the normies build their houses. Read how the rich build their houses. Read how people built their houses in the 14th century, and then take all that and come up with a plan that incorporates the science of home construction with the sensibilities of the hippie mud hut crowd.

Yeah, its hard. There is a reason why most people live $100,000 in debt just to have a vinyl sided white box somewhere.

We just paid off a $100,000 mortgage in January in 7 years making on average $30,000 a year. We scrimped and saved and cut corners for 7 years and I never want to owe someone another dime n my life.

What really help us here was to write up the house 'bible'...just a simple one page set of commandments to use as a guide for sorting through the thousands of options you will run into. You may change this over time but you have to some sort of 'mission statement' or you will go nuts with the possibilities.

In the end, remember, its just a house. Its not brain surgery. Everything can be fixed. Construction is forgiving if you let it be. Just make sure you run the numbers and know how to pay for whatever it is you decide to do. Its usually not the design that destroys peoples home projects, its the money.My plan is to buy the land with cash, build the shell of the house with cash, move in then put the money that would otherwise go to rent and utilities to make the inside liveable.

My idea of liveable is probably much lower than what most people would consider. A couple of examples of what I am fine with: Roughsawn 2x6's being the sub floor and finished floor in one. My kitchen cabinets were in the tree one day and hanging on the wall as "finished cabinets two days later they were meant to be temporary but its been 5 years and my wife just gave them their second coat of paint this weekend. We have a 15 gallon water heater for 7 people in the house. We have no counters in our kitchen. We don't have over head lights in most of our rooms. The only thing my wife complains about is the small water heater.



Ain't that truth. I had walls and a roof in a few months. Ten years later I'm still finishing it.

I know several people who live in "unconventional" homes and am jealous of them having no mortgage or utilities.

 

[lasers]

I understand. Which is why I mentioned using much less expensive but equivalent materials for some of it. It was the principles that I was trying to get across. Most of them can be achieved with 'standard' building materials rather than the more expensive ones. The things that make the home safer, easier to heat and cool, easier to keep clean and then clean when it is needed. Options that can be added easily and inexpensively later if a few things are done during the initial build. Alternative heating and cooling methods that can use a wide variety of available fuels, keep the house cleaner, and can be used in ways that reduce fuel use and make the house feel warmer in winter and cooler in summer than current conventional systems do.

Aspects to keep the place livable despite climate change in either direction, heavier than normal snowfalls, rainfall, terrible droughts, insect swarms, animal encroachment, human encroachment.

And one thing that I realized earlier today, was that I did not mention that some of the aspects I have in the article can be used for only a part of the structure (probably having the kitchen, a bath, a pantry, and small living area) and the rest built more or less any way that will work and can be done. That way, the major advantages are still achieved, while reducing overall cost.

If prices are checked and compared, as long as more standard items are used rather than the much more expensive copper and other high-end items, many of the things I recommend or even just mention are not any more expensive, as they are techniques to do something that is already going to be done, and not major additions to a home. A metal roof does not have to be copper. It is just that copper has many advantages. But it is really expensive. A baked on finish steel standing seam roof is a fraction of the cost of a copper roof.

The same with the copper faucets and things. Certain advantages, but the main thing is the way any faucet is installed to make it easy not only to install in the first place, but when, not if, it has to be repaired or replaced.

The cupolas provide the function of making cooling a house much easier without electrically powered compressor air conditioning. But if a cupola is going to be installed, why not spend just a few extra bucks to build it so sandbags can be stacked inside to provide a bullet-resistant high OP/LP and fighting position.

Those are the kinds of things I wanted to present. I simply went the high end way, knowing most of those here can scale down, scale back, and find alternative ways to achieve the same effects that I used expensive materials to achieve.

It is the ideas, not the materials, for most of the advantages I see.

I never try to convince people to do what I list and suggest, much less try to make them do any of it. Everyone has their own opinions and their own ways of doing things.

And all of this is, as always, just my opinion.

I'll have to reread your original post and page through more of that link you put in there as well. Although it appears a lot of what you suggested such as redundant systems and building a defensive home are kind of the opposite of what I want, instead of a heating system with pumps and fans I want to do without, I want it as simple as possible and then design the house in a way that if the heating system can't be fueled for some reason the basement won't buckle when the ground around it freezes or that if the plumbing system freezes it won't break the pipes and leak 10" of thousands of gallons and fill up the basement with a solid ice cube. (this actually happened to two homes here three years ago when we had extremely cold weather and the home owners went south for the winter and their furnaces failed.)

I also am putting low cost and building as I can afford it on the top of the list so many of the things that a "preparers" house should include won't be included.

 

[lasers]

My advice is to stick to standard design. You may think you will never need or want to sell it in the future but situations change. A house that is fairly standard design for the neighborhood location will be much easier to sell than a one of a kind castle of your imagination.
.

I disagree. If I can build a home for $20,000 and live in it, I could burn it to the ground after three years and still be money ahead compared to renting a 3 bedroom apartment.

 

[lasers]

Op, just a few thoughts:

Over engineer the footings, and foundation. Wider and deeper, with more than enough rebar.

Full or half basements, spend lots of time on your Drainage system. Also on Insulation and Outside Sealing systems. Money spent getting these three things right the first time, will save you money, time and tons of problems later.

Metal roofs are nice, but do not go more than a 6 1/2-12 pitch. I have a 10 1/2 - 12, on a cape, and without toe boards, you can’t get on it. The rubber washers on the roofing screws for metal roofing, only last five to ten years. So they have to be replaced, or you will have leaks. Buy the larger shank(thicker) roofing screws, they don’t break off as bad as the regular ones.(ask me how I know)

I would put the wood stove in the basement. That way you do not have the mess upstairs in the living area. And you can run a hot water coil over to the water heater saving money.

My two cents worth.

Drainage below the basement I agree with. I may or may not insulate the basement, it would be mostly storage.

I want the wood stove to be the center of the house. Dirty or not it becomes the gathering point of a home and is nice to sit by.

I am thinking of a 4/12 pitch. Steep enough to help prevent leaks. Our current roof has something like a 0.4/12 (notice where the decimal point is there) pitch and if we get a one inch ice dam or a strong south wind it leaks.

4/12 is also shallow enough to be able to walk on for maintenance.

 

[lasers]

I doubt that you can build a reasonable home, insulated from the elements, that will house your family for $20,000. But if that is what you want to do than I am not trying to stop you. Do not forget little things like septic treatment, access roads, site clearing and preparation work. Than there is the cost of whatever alternative energy system you are thinking of using.
I did mention, that whatever you are planing to spend, it will cost more


I dont intend to have any type of septic. If it is "self contained"(portapotie, composting toilet, outhouse) no septic is required.

Access road would depend on the site. And with a little searching nearly every property that was once a farm has a small gravel pit on it. If cost to put in a full driveway is to expensive I am fine with parking near the road in the spring and wet times of the year and walking the rest of the way. It isn't common but I have one friend who does just that because their drive turns to slime when wet. I also know of farms with long driveways and a garage right of the road for the same reason or snow.

The alternative energy system is a pair of 100 pound propane tanks, a Second hand solar panel, a deep cycle battery and a $400 generator. I'd rather do without than try to live the same lifestyle as someone on the grid.

Owning a sawmill will also help to keep the cost of the larger framing lumber down.

 

[lasers]

There is this assumption that living off grid is cheaper then on. Quite often it is not the case unless you live like a homeless person. I hope your remaining children and wife are also willing to do without or I foresee family friction in your future.

Owning a sawmill is fun. I owned a small bandsaw mill for several years. Do not forget the initial cost of mill, plus all the equipment for handling logs and lumber into your overall costs.

I assume you will be building in a area without building permits required. If you do have local or State requirements they can add to your costs as well as what you are allowed to build.

If a person wants to live the same lyfestyle off grid that they would live on the grid it is more expensive. If a person is willing to change their lifestyle then it can be much cheaper.

For three or 4 summers I lived at our family cabin which was a 40 year old trailer with no running water or electric. Light was from a lantern, water was from the stream, and the fridge was a barrel sunk in the pond. I think it was a great way to be raised and wish all my kids could experience that life. My wife also has fond memories of staying at her grand parents in the desert, also no running water and the neighborhood had electric for two hours in the evening when her grandpa started the welder. Admittedly it will be a change from what we are used to now.

I already own the mill so I don't see any reason to include anything more than blades and fuel in the cost of building. As far as a tractor goes, I suppose it would be fair to add $1000 to get one and rebuild it.

Unfortunately permits and inspections are required. Hence paying my neighbor a couple hundred dollars to rubber stamp some plans for me. I also have to retake my lumber grading class to be able to use my own lumber to build it.

 

[lasers]

Here is some info you might want to think about.

You mentioned "hauling water in." Keep in mind that a life that requires hauling water is stressful, especially in a cold climate. I speak from experience; I hauled water quite a bit during the first couple years I had the house, when I was living in the house part-time.

Also: Where will you get the water you're planning to haul? From a survivalist standpoint, relying on an outside source for water is a terrible idea. IMO, you really need to have your own water supply, on your own property.

Consider drilling or digging a well and building the house around the well, so to speak. That way, you could probably install a manual water pump on the wellhead, and you'd be able to retrieve water from the well without going outside. I say "probably" because whether or not a manual well pump would work for you is dependent upon the static water level in the well - and you won't know what the static water level is until after the well has been drilled.

What I describe above was my original plan for my well, but I ended up with something different. In my case, the well for my house is about 50 feet away from the house, and in my basement utility room there is a manual well pump that retrieves water from the well. This is a very nice situation. Things worked out this way for me partly because I did some careful research and partly because I got lucky with my well (long story - the short version is that my well turned out to be an artisian well).

Some of your ideas about plumbing might cause trouble for you if you'll be building in an area where there is code enforcement. For example, in many if not most areas in the US you will probably get pushback on the idea of allowing your kitchen sink to drain through the wall. Instead, you will probably be mandated to have a septic system (that is, a septic tank and leach field). A septic system might very well be required even if you have a composting toilet.

You mentioned an elevated water-storage tank. I have three caveats about this:

1. This is probably obvious: your water-storage tank will need to be inside a heated structure (your house, presumably), since you'll be in a place where temps are very low in winter. If the tank is outside the house, the water in it will freeze in winter.

2. Water is heavy. If you are going to have a water-storage tank in your house, make sure it is well supported.

3. I'm pretty sure a water-storage tank on the second floor of a house will not allow you to have enough water pressure to operate a tankless water heater that is on the first floor of the house or even in the basement of the house - assuming you are planning to rely on gravity alone to get the water from the storage tank to the water heater. I looked into this extensively. Do your research. (NOTE: My manual well pump has nothing to do with my tankless water heater. In addition to the manual well pump, I have an electric submersible well pump. My tankless water heater only works when I'm using the electric submersible pump. Currently, I need to use my gas generator to power the electric submersible pump, because my small solar-electric system doesn't have enough capacity to power it. I hope to build a bigger solar-electric system this summer. Once that project is done, I'll be able to have pressurized hot water without using the gas generator.)

Design your house with a very steep roof, make sure you insulate the roof really well, and put metal roofing on it. Don't be tempted to build a house with a roof that is gently sloped, and don't be tempted to use asphalt shingles instead of metal roofing. Doing those things will be a temptation because it is easier and less expensive to build that way. If you go with a shallow roof pitch and/or asphalt shingles, you will be sorry, because you will end up shoveling the roof. You have stated clearly that you already know what a pain it is to shovel a roof, but I am emphasizing the importance of having a steep, well-insulated, slippery roof because once you start building, money will probably be tight, and it will be difficult to resist the temptation to cut corners. FYI, the roof pitch on my house is 12:12. The roof has R42 insulation provided by structural insulated panels (SIPs). The roof covering is ribbed metal panels. Which reminds me: in a cold climate, choose a dark color for your roof. The dark-colored roof will absorb heat, and this will promote melting of snow and ice.

When planning the layout of the house, make sure exterior doors are not on an eave side of the house. That way, you won't have snow sliding off the roof in front of a door.

When looking for land, make sure you can get the phone service and Internet service you need at that location. Do this BEFORE you put a deposit on the land; don't assume you'll be able to work it out later.

If you're thinking of buying land on a road that is not maintained by your municipality or your county or your state, make sure you have a plan for snowplowing and road maintenance.

Same issue for your driveway.

How did you come up with your estimated requirement of "a couple hundred watts of solar"? You need to calculate the energy consumption of the devices you'll need to power. You need to figure out how you will store electricity. You need a charge controller and probably an inverter. You need a sheltered, warm place for the batteries, charge controller, and inverter. You might need a venting system for the batteries, depending upon battery type.

When designing your house, plan carefully for the venting requirements and electrical requirements for your tankless propane-fueled water heater. For example, if your tankless water heater needs a chimney that goes up through the interior of the house, make sure your interior layout can accommodate the chimney. Or, if the heater will vent through a wall of your house, make sure the vent exits the wall in a place where it won't become buried in snow. Also, note that almost all on-demand propane-fueled water heaters require at least some electricity; the electricity is required for the fan that accomplishes the venting, and also, some electricity is required to keep the components inside the heater from freezing (at least, that is true of the water heater I have).

If you think I might be exaggerating the importance of designing your house to accommodate the requirements for your tankless water heater, spend some time talking with your local propane dealer. I assure you I am not exaggerating or disasterizing. Incorporating the propane-fueled tankless water heater into my house design, plumbing system, and electrical system was one of the biggest challenges I faced when designing and building my house.

Good luck!

The water I would haul in would only be drinking water. We would have a point for everything else. The reason for not going with regular plumbing is regular plumbing requires electric anytime you want to run water for more than a few seconds. My idea is to have tanks in the attic above the bathroom. That I would fill as needed from the point by using a generator to power the pump. Once the tank is full we could go several days without using the pump again.

Here it is against the law to drill, jet or ball your own well, but it is legal to drive or dig one(not that anyone would know the difference once it is installed) it is also illegal to put a well in a basement or pit of any kind, which requires lots of extra work to protect it from freezing, that is part of my reason for not going with a basement under the entire house.


The idea to support the water tank would be to start with pouring an extra foundation in the basement, build a closet from the basement floor to the underside of the main floor then build the bathroom directly on top of the walls of the basement closet, then put one or two ibc totes above the bathroom walls, that way the weight of the tanks are fully supported all the way to the foundation. The totes would be insulated and heat from the house would be allowed into that area to keep them from freezing. I would also include a trap door large enough to swap out totes in case one is ever damaged.

For the water heater I am thinking of a camping one, they are portable, and require 2.5 psi, which is almost 6 feet of head, that may be a problem. They are powered off a pair of batteries and propane so shouldn't be a drain on the electric system. They also are ventless with a low oxygen sensor.

For the roof I want pole barn steel, and 4/12 built heavy duty enough that it doesn't matter if it slides off.

As far as phone and internet, I'm fine with a cell phone or the local library. I want no utilities.

Around here there are very very few unmaintained roads in the winter so a plow for the driveway is enough if it doesn't drift.

 

[lasers]

I've been under the weather as it is pollen season down there, plus I'm recovering from a mild stomach type flu.

LOFT : the reason I kept mentioning that was that people who want a smaller home [on one level] but get hassled for not having the necessary sq footage required by the county, plop a loft in [ladder, slanted ladder, stairs access] and get the footage essentially using attic space. [down here the more attic you have the easier it is to keep the house cool]. Down here they sometimes put up a wall so they don't have to heat it -- cool drops so it doesn't matter most of the year. They use it for storage, a place to put the grandkids on visits and that sort of thing.

More than one Bath : That's the two is one logic. Yeah, I know your using composting toilets. But two is always better. Plus, if you put a half bath near an entrance you don't have to go through the house to access the facilities. Think of the entry way as a mud room and the toilet right off there as not needing to unboot. And the sink[water] can be on an inside wall.

Sounds like you are going to put the main bath behind the kitchen area [which you are inside placing which is good for northern climes. [got PA relatives]. In re: aging in place. You want one bathroom 'large' in that it is easy for someone to help you. Or use a walker and help you or use a wheelchair and help you. [hey, someone could break a leg tomorrow.] Basically, as close as you can get to five feet manuevering room the better. Plenty of people put extra storage in, then move that when the 'time comes'.

And make all the doors 3 footers, ditto any hallways.

Get a larger hot water tank with its own turn on switch. Or, I don't know how well they work up there, considering the freezing. Lots of folks heat their water on the roofs or sunny side of the house -- with a secondary heater to punch it up to temp on rainy days/mornings. Even if you drained it for the winter, it would be an option for the summer months.

I am just not a fan of high ceilings because all the heat rises in the winter.

As far as two bathrooms, I don't intend to spend the extra space to put in a second one. We only have one now and in 7 years it has almost been an issue once.

I want to avoid hallways all together, other than maybe a short one as an entryway to be able to make two doors to help keep heat in.


If I can make the layout work right I would make the kitchen and bathroom share a wall but in thinking about it I am not sure if I can make that work and not break things up more than I would like.