Took my 2 kids in for a strep test the other day. Pay my $50 copay ($25 each) they don't even see the doctor, just a pa. Get a bill today for $148 for each kid. $40 for each test and $133 for office visit each..How on earth can people afford to even seek medical treatment.??? Thanks for the rant....
abbatoys1
I get migraine headaches. I try never to run out of migraine medication, but one time last year I did run out because my pharmacy could not find a source for the medication for a period of three weeks or so.
After suffering for two days with a really bad migraine, I went to the emergency room. I was there for about an hour and a half. I was given an injection of the same stuff I normally get at the pharmacy.
A month or so later I received paperwork from my insurance company - an accounting of the charges for the visit to the emergency room. The total charge was - wait for it - $2100.
How outrageous is that?
Fortunately, my insurance plan kicked in $2000, and I had to pay only $100.
But I'm just saying...
After suffering for two days with a really bad migraine, I went to the emergency room. I was there for about an hour and a half. I was given an injection of the same stuff I normally get at the pharmacy.
A month or so later I received paperwork from my insurance company - an accounting of the charges for the visit to the emergency room. The total charge was - wait for it - $2100.
How outrageous is that?
Fortunately, my insurance plan kicked in $2000, and I had to pay only $100.
But I'm just saying...
Wife has the Bronze Obamacare plan. It costs us around 250 a month. It has a 6500 deductible. You pay that before it pays anything. If you are "poor" enough, you can get a silver plan for less than 50 a month with copays and deductibles waived.
#Poor lives matter
#Poor lives matter
Sounds about right. I'm curious what you think would be a fair amount. Not a "good deal", but a fair price that helps pay the high costs of running a clinic (including paying a doctor to be around in case you need them).
On the bright side, costly medical care encourages everyone to take better care of themselves. Many, if not most, medical issues nowadays are "lifestyle related" (diet, exercise, etc).
Hope your kids are doing better..
Sad thing is, there are too many of us that remember when medical insurance was good...
Our first two children, the entire copay - birth, hospitalization, everything - was fifty dollars.
Fifty.
Seriously, that's all we paid. I spent more than that for flowers for my wife.
And this wasn't decades ago, I'm talking about 1999 and 2000 here.
Our last child (2009), it was over 1800 out of pocket... That's a 3,600 percent rise, if you're keeping score.
But, as the gov gets more involved, costs go up and efficiency decreases.
Just vote for Bernie though, it'll all be "free..." If by free, you mean really really bad, capitated, rationed, and generally inaccessible.
The worst thing that ever happened was the creation of middle men between doctors and patients.
Look at the places where there aren't those middle men. Say, cosmetic surgery, or Lasix.
What's happened there? Prices have come down, access has increased, and there is competition for your business.
Competition, drives innovation. And it benefits the consumer.
Putting anything in between, decreases responsiveness and creates customer frustration. Notice that healthcare is the only place where this happens in our economy. And be mindful of it's effect.
Government involvement, kills.
Period.
Our first two children, the entire copay - birth, hospitalization, everything - was fifty dollars.
Fifty.
Seriously, that's all we paid. I spent more than that for flowers for my wife.
And this wasn't decades ago, I'm talking about 1999 and 2000 here.
Our last child (2009), it was over 1800 out of pocket... That's a 3,600 percent rise, if you're keeping score.
But, as the gov gets more involved, costs go up and efficiency decreases.
Just vote for Bernie though, it'll all be "free..." If by free, you mean really really bad, capitated, rationed, and generally inaccessible.
The worst thing that ever happened was the creation of middle men between doctors and patients.
Look at the places where there aren't those middle men. Say, cosmetic surgery, or Lasix.
What's happened there? Prices have come down, access has increased, and there is competition for your business.
Competition, drives innovation. And it benefits the consumer.
Putting anything in between, decreases responsiveness and creates customer frustration. Notice that healthcare is the only place where this happens in our economy. And be mindful of it's effect.
Government involvement, kills.
Period.
Medicare pays $0.42 for every dollar of medical cost in a hospital.
Guess who picks up the remaining 58% of the bill - anyone with insurance.
This doesn't include those that are treated that don't even have socialized medicine through medicare... let alone medicaid.
If you have insurance, the bills for most of the patients around you are being paid - By you.
Redistribution sucks when you are the one stuck with the bill.
Guess who picks up the remaining 58% of the bill - anyone with insurance.
This doesn't include those that are treated that don't even have socialized medicine through medicare... let alone medicaid.
If you have insurance, the bills for most of the patients around you are being paid - By you.
Redistribution sucks when you are the one stuck with the bill.
Medicare sets a price on every procedure, pays a percentage, and your co insurance is on the hook for the rest of their price. The provider does not get 100% of what they charge.
Of my $3500 bill at er when I had a seizure, medicare determined it was going to pay $575, they paid 80% of that, I owed only the 20% of the balance, about $120. NOT $3000.
On the d.o.b. there is paid to provider, and patient amount. I've never had to pay over the patient amount. And the secondary pays that...
If a provider demands full payment from you after accepting medicare, it's felony fraud.
Of my $3500 bill at er when I had a seizure, medicare determined it was going to pay $575, they paid 80% of that, I owed only the 20% of the balance, about $120. NOT $3000.
On the d.o.b. there is paid to provider, and patient amount. I've never had to pay over the patient amount. And the secondary pays that...
If a provider demands full payment from you after accepting medicare, it's felony fraud.
I and my wife pay our Dr. in cash and he gives us a 10% cash discount. We don't have health insurance so until it gets over $476.88 a month we're good. Last year total with office visits prescriptions and mammography's it was less than $700.00 for the whole year. Never get a refund so the penalty won't be happening either
Reasons healthcare so expensive
1. Obama care
2. we're all paying for the millions of uninsured illegals . Probably around 30 - 50 million of them .
3. Big drug companies are ripping us off . Making HUGE $$$
4. insurance companies making HUGE $$$
5. malpractice lawsuits / lawyers
6. IN general - greed , fraud , waste , abuse , government interference
1. Obama care
2. we're all paying for the millions of uninsured illegals . Probably around 30 - 50 million of them .
3. Big drug companies are ripping us off . Making HUGE $$$
4. insurance companies making HUGE $$$
5. malpractice lawsuits / lawyers
6. IN general - greed , fraud , waste , abuse , government interference
reason healthcare is so expensive is the over-utilization of expensive methods of treatment. go to the er for a cold, 95 year old having a cardiac catheterization and stents, demented 80 year old getting dialysis. the list goes on , the pts have a right to demand all the care they want when they want it even if it makes no sense to do it, if doctors refuse the lawyers show up, just put 90 year old vegetated grandma in the icu and make sure she gets the most aggressive care she can have, spend 10,000 a day on her because the family does not want to make a decision. seen this play out hundreds of times. that's where your money goes.
I would call your insurance company and find out what's up. Half the time these things are coded wrong. Worth a shot.
I can remember the pre-Obama care days. My family had one of those "Cadillac" plans people talk about. Not any more. 
One family member is a medical billing coder. Never has she seen insurance so bad as it is now.
One family member is a medical billing coder. Never has she seen insurance so bad as it is now.
In addition to all the above reasons, a major healthcare cost driver is Big Pharma direct to consumer advertising. This has taken over from R&D as many companies' greatest expense since the mid 90s when the law allowed it.
Drug and other treatment modality advertising lends to the technological emperative that physicians write for the latest most expensive medication or diagnostic exam even when a less expensive alternative is available.
Drug companies have the highest profit margin of the other health care industries which drive up costs, but that is a different topic.
Drug and other treatment modality advertising lends to the technological emperative that physicians write for the latest most expensive medication or diagnostic exam even when a less expensive alternative is available.
Drug companies have the highest profit margin of the other health care industries which drive up costs, but that is a different topic.
On the other hand, on occasion, sometimes things just work out. I had gall bladder surgery a few weeks ago and this week went for my first follow up.
docs office told me that any follow up for 90 days is included with my surgical cost--already paid for a grand total of $150.00 dollars to the surgeon--so no more money out of pocket to him.
docs office told me that any follow up for 90 days is included with my surgical cost--already paid for a grand total of $150.00 dollars to the surgeon--so no more money out of pocket to him.
I don't have insurance. I went through the Obama care process and they simply dumped me to a choice of two insurance companies charging $1000 a month and not kicking in till I paid $6,700 a year deductible. I can't pay $19,000 a year while making less than $5,000. I went to the emergency room a while back with elevated blood pressure and now have a bill for almost $1,000 for an xray and 3 blood test.
Fortunately there a few federally funded clinics for the indignant.
It seems there are several problems...
1. Greed - pay for the pills or die. A monopolistic situation.
2. Insurance companies taking money OUT of the health care system without ever actually treating anyone.
3. Frivolous law suits forcing Doctors to order every test available just to cover their butts.
The government actually prevents competition in this industry in their attempt to eliminate a few quacks.
Fortunately there a few federally funded clinics for the indignant.
It seems there are several problems...
1. Greed - pay for the pills or die. A monopolistic situation.
2. Insurance companies taking money OUT of the health care system without ever actually treating anyone.
3. Frivolous law suits forcing Doctors to order every test available just to cover their butts.
The government actually prevents competition in this industry in their attempt to eliminate a few quacks.
Shoot you got it lucky. Obamacare just about killed me. I currently have a PICC line in my arm undergoing 6 weeks of antibiotic treatments to hopefully prevent a surgery now. I have a 3 month waiting period for a doctor, any doctor, 1st available appointment.
Spent a week in the hospital. My deductibles have never been higher. Financially I'm toast. Thank you Obamacare.
Spent a week in the hospital. My deductibles have never been higher. Financially I'm toast. Thank you Obamacare.
Healthcare Costs vs Obamacare
This is the first year for me to file a tax return after having received Obamacare for one year. The government is charging a tax for the subsidy monies given to make the insurance "affordable". I'm retired, on SS, and the subsidy "assistance" I qualify for which makes the insurance affordable is a blessing but to tax those monies in the aftermath ?
I now understand why folks are forgoing the insurance and simply paying the $250 fine for not having Obamacare.
Pre-Obamacare, folks went to the emergency room if they couldn't afford healthcare insurance. The hospitals did their best to collect what they could from those patients, in a number of cases resorting to "writing off" the charges because the patient couldn't/wouldn't pay. That drove up the cost of hospital healthcare. Those with health insurance or who could afford to pay were carrying the cost of others who didn't pay. Hence, one aspirin cost $25.
Ironically, the situation we had prior to Obamacare was in essence a method of national healthcare with those who could, paying for those who couldn't.
I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. Just commenting.
This is the first year for me to file a tax return after having received Obamacare for one year. The government is charging a tax for the subsidy monies given to make the insurance "affordable". I'm retired, on SS, and the subsidy "assistance" I qualify for which makes the insurance affordable is a blessing but to tax those monies in the aftermath ?
I now understand why folks are forgoing the insurance and simply paying the $250 fine for not having Obamacare.
Pre-Obamacare, folks went to the emergency room if they couldn't afford healthcare insurance. The hospitals did their best to collect what they could from those patients, in a number of cases resorting to "writing off" the charges because the patient couldn't/wouldn't pay. That drove up the cost of hospital healthcare. Those with health insurance or who could afford to pay were carrying the cost of others who didn't pay. Hence, one aspirin cost $25.
Ironically, the situation we had prior to Obamacare was in essence a method of national healthcare with those who could, paying for those who couldn't.
I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. Just commenting.
Are we mistaking "Health Insurance" (coverage) for "Healthcare"?
When such subjects come up, I always have to ask. If you believe you are paying "too much," what is the "correct" amount?:upsidedown:
When such subjects come up, I always have to ask. If you believe you are paying "too much," what is the "correct" amount?:upsidedown:
yep im confusedAre we mistaking "Health Insurance" (coverage) for "Healthcare"?
Since you have said this more than once, would you mind pointing out where you can buy healthcare and not health insurance?
The pharmaceutical companies, doctors and especially the medical insurance companies are in cahoots to keep the price up.
For profit hospitals arranged by income level are common in the US, but unusual in the rest of the world.
As an example, I was in Bolivia and my wife went into anaphalactic shock after some bee stings. We checked into a hotel right after it happened. In my bad Spanish I told the desk Medico pronto. I guy showed up in our hotel room with a little leather bag like in the old days when I was a kid. He immediately saw the problem and called the hotel desk. They sent a kid to run to the Pharmacia and came to the room with a syringe. Problem solved in 15 minutes. It cost $20 for doctor and $3 for the drug that saved her. Say what you want about socialized medicine but that experience convinced me it is a good idea.
For profit hospitals arranged by income level are common in the US, but unusual in the rest of the world.
As an example, I was in Bolivia and my wife went into anaphalactic shock after some bee stings. We checked into a hotel right after it happened. In my bad Spanish I told the desk Medico pronto. I guy showed up in our hotel room with a little leather bag like in the old days when I was a kid. He immediately saw the problem and called the hotel desk. They sent a kid to run to the Pharmacia and came to the room with a syringe. Problem solved in 15 minutes. It cost $20 for doctor and $3 for the drug that saved her. Say what you want about socialized medicine but that experience convinced me it is a good idea.
We used to pay $400 per month with $10 co-pay for well visits and a $1500 total deductible. It cost us less that $500 to have both babies delivered.
Now out .gov has reformed health care and I pay $80 per month, well visits are free but we have a $2500 deductible per person and $4500 family total. So its only costing about double. But then we take my son to the hospital and they discharge him "because we have private insurance" rather than admit him.
Now out .gov has reformed health care and I pay $80 per month, well visits are free but we have a $2500 deductible per person and $4500 family total. So its only costing about double. But then we take my son to the hospital and they discharge him "because we have private insurance" rather than admit him.
I don't buy the "Big Pharma is ripping us off" business. I used to work for a company that did a lot of work for a big pharma company, and their costs to bring a new drug to market are enormous. The discovery process alone is bad enough. They go through thousands of promising drugs every year, only to find that they don't work or that they have bad side effects. Then, when they do hit on one that works, they have to patent it before it's even ready to go to market so that some other company doesn't get a patent on it ahead of them. Then there are the clinical trials that run into $millions, and all the while the "shot clock" on their patent is running. And meanwhile, the FDA is all over them if they move a manufacturing machine a few feet to the left. If you want an example of FDA overreach, just remember when you couldn't get Excedrin for a few years.
Even if they get through the clinical trials and prove to the FDA that their drug does what they say it does and doesn't kill people in the process they have to market it. The generic companies are just biding their time, waiting till the patent expires, then they crank it out without having to pay a dime in development costs. The pharma company has a very narrow window of time in which to make a profit, most of which goes back into further research, covers the cost of keeping the lights on in the buildings and covering the lawsuits from the lawyers who are trolling for clients on late night TV.
Without "big pharma" continuing to search for new "wonder drugs" we'd still be treating everything with penicillin, sulfa powder and aspirin. But then you could always fall back on those if you think you're being ripped off on the price of drugs.
Even if they get through the clinical trials and prove to the FDA that their drug does what they say it does and doesn't kill people in the process they have to market it. The generic companies are just biding their time, waiting till the patent expires, then they crank it out without having to pay a dime in development costs. The pharma company has a very narrow window of time in which to make a profit, most of which goes back into further research, covers the cost of keeping the lights on in the buildings and covering the lawsuits from the lawyers who are trolling for clients on late night TV.
Without "big pharma" continuing to search for new "wonder drugs" we'd still be treating everything with penicillin, sulfa powder and aspirin. But then you could always fall back on those if you think you're being ripped off on the price of drugs.
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