Post Deleted.
FM2176
! agree with the article.
I do not have the right to take money from my neighbors pocket to pay for my health care, children's' schooling, raise my standard of living to an arbitrary standard or a host of other things.
If my neighbor(s) choose, of their own free will, to help me with these things, that is their right and God bless them.
I do not have the right to take money from my neighbors pocket to pay for my health care, children's' schooling, raise my standard of living to an arbitrary standard or a host of other things.
If my neighbor(s) choose, of their own free will, to help me with these things, that is their right and God bless them.
Ok, long post time. To start, I thought this article was fairly biased. They love to use loaded words like "Slave" and "Rights".
First off, they give an example of Socialized medicine: Soviet Russia. A country with a completely different political and economic system. I think they chose Russia for two reasons, this is an article meant for American's and Russia had been our sworn enemy (And still is to some) for nearly 70 years. If Russia has something to do with it, then we must by principle not have any of it.
The other reason they used it is that Soviet Russia collapsed economically (as we all know) and thusly they can attempt to draw a correlation between socialized medicine and economic disaster.
Why is using Russia irrelevant? They have a different political system, they had far less economic access as we do currently, and it's the only country to my knowledge that had socialized medicine that is doing poorly.
Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, The Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Thailand. All of these countries, excluding Singapore and Thailand, are first world countries and are on par with the U.S.
The only other mention of a socialized medicine country is Canada where the author simply shrugs the system off by saying that it doesn't work citing only that "He was born there and knows". I know several Canadians and can say that they are happy with the system. That's all you really need for a counter-point here as he hasn't even provided any tangible reasoning.
Then his analogy of getting hair cuts to medicine is terrible. Taking something as hassle free as a $15 dollar hair cut and something like medical care is just stupid. Unless there was some sort of reward system for the more procedures you performed then there would be no reason for a doctor to bend to a hypochondriac's wishes unless he is actually showing signs of an actual disease.
Sorry to cut my post off before I am finished with it, but it is 1:30 AM and I need to get some sleep. I will be finishing this up tomorrow.
First off, they give an example of Socialized medicine: Soviet Russia. A country with a completely different political and economic system. I think they chose Russia for two reasons, this is an article meant for American's and Russia had been our sworn enemy (And still is to some) for nearly 70 years. If Russia has something to do with it, then we must by principle not have any of it.
The other reason they used it is that Soviet Russia collapsed economically (as we all know) and thusly they can attempt to draw a correlation between socialized medicine and economic disaster.
Why is using Russia irrelevant? They have a different political system, they had far less economic access as we do currently, and it's the only country to my knowledge that had socialized medicine that is doing poorly.
Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, The Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Thailand. All of these countries, excluding Singapore and Thailand, are first world countries and are on par with the U.S.
The only other mention of a socialized medicine country is Canada where the author simply shrugs the system off by saying that it doesn't work citing only that "He was born there and knows". I know several Canadians and can say that they are happy with the system. That's all you really need for a counter-point here as he hasn't even provided any tangible reasoning.
Then his analogy of getting hair cuts to medicine is terrible. Taking something as hassle free as a $15 dollar hair cut and something like medical care is just stupid. Unless there was some sort of reward system for the more procedures you performed then there would be no reason for a doctor to bend to a hypochondriac's wishes unless he is actually showing signs of an actual disease.
Sorry to cut my post off before I am finished with it, but it is 1:30 AM and I need to get some sleep. I will be finishing this up tomorrow.
on the opposite end of things- what about people that just can't get by. I don't mean illegals here. My mom was injured when I was 15 and could not work due to injuries suffered. The settlement was paltry at best. She gets social security and medicare but they don't pay a third of whats actually needed. What about people that are mentally just fine but cannot work for themselves?
Even worse- what about these new "thosands of jobs" W "created" which are entirely minimum wage- which you all should know doesn't pay for todays soaring food and gas prices never mind medical treatment.
1 ambulance ride, 2 spinal surgeries, and 3 months convalecence- Medicare billed 1.28 million. This is from my mom's medical records. No wonder we all hate hospitals these days
Even worse- what about these new "thosands of jobs" W "created" which are entirely minimum wage- which you all should know doesn't pay for todays soaring food and gas prices never mind medical treatment.
1 ambulance ride, 2 spinal surgeries, and 3 months convalecence- Medicare billed 1.28 million. This is from my mom's medical records. No wonder we all hate hospitals these days
thank you! someone gets it.
I went to the hospital a month or so back, I got smacked in the eye from some brush when retrieving some of my arrows, It hurt, it hurt ALOT, I didn't have insurance at the time ( i was one month away from having it), I was in CONSTANT agonizing pain for twelve friggin hours before i finally decided to walk myself to the hospital, in the pouring rain and lightning at 3:30 in the morning. after waiting two treacherous hours in the Er they finally told me i had a coronal abrasion and that it would take anywhere from a week or two to heal and gave me a tetanus shot. The bill came later, the bill itself was 530 dollars....then i got a separate bill, the 'doctors bill' 200 dollars, so thats 730 dollars, for me to wait in the Er for two hours, for them to give me one shot, and to give me some painkillers and antibiotics, its not like the doctor rushed anyway, he was on his damn lunch!
I went through all that bullcrap, hours and hours of pain just to pray to god it'd go away by itself so i didn't have to go to the hospital because i didn't have insurance at the time, I eventually got mine, but imagine the people who simply cant get it or afford it right now, I dont think it kills us to help them.
Mandatory health insurance? i dont agree with it as some people cant pay for it and it'd put them an even deeper hole.
I know why people are against it majority wise, they simply dont want to pay more out of their checks, and i fully agree, lets stop giving away BILLIONS of friggin dollars to other countries with OUR MONEY, and start helping out our fellow Americans.
I know their are people out there who exploit the system, we need to re-design it and to get more support into exposing fraudulent claims.
and I know we need to revise who gets help and who doesn't and who can do some work and who cant do anything at all.
Call me a bleeding heart, call me an idiot, but i cant stare at another human being in pain, unable to get help because they cant afford it (and i dont mean lazy and fraudulent people, i'm talking the genuine article here, not including idiots)
I went to the hospital a month or so back, I got smacked in the eye from some brush when retrieving some of my arrows, It hurt, it hurt ALOT, I didn't have insurance at the time ( i was one month away from having it), I was in CONSTANT agonizing pain for twelve friggin hours before i finally decided to walk myself to the hospital, in the pouring rain and lightning at 3:30 in the morning. after waiting two treacherous hours in the Er they finally told me i had a coronal abrasion and that it would take anywhere from a week or two to heal and gave me a tetanus shot. The bill came later, the bill itself was 530 dollars....then i got a separate bill, the 'doctors bill' 200 dollars, so thats 730 dollars, for me to wait in the Er for two hours, for them to give me one shot, and to give me some painkillers and antibiotics, its not like the doctor rushed anyway, he was on his damn lunch!
I went through all that bullcrap, hours and hours of pain just to pray to god it'd go away by itself so i didn't have to go to the hospital because i didn't have insurance at the time, I eventually got mine, but imagine the people who simply cant get it or afford it right now, I dont think it kills us to help them.
Mandatory health insurance? i dont agree with it as some people cant pay for it and it'd put them an even deeper hole.
I know why people are against it majority wise, they simply dont want to pay more out of their checks, and i fully agree, lets stop giving away BILLIONS of friggin dollars to other countries with OUR MONEY, and start helping out our fellow Americans.
I know their are people out there who exploit the system, we need to re-design it and to get more support into exposing fraudulent claims.
and I know we need to revise who gets help and who doesn't and who can do some work and who cant do anything at all.
Call me a bleeding heart, call me an idiot, but i cant stare at another human being in pain, unable to get help because they cant afford it (and i dont mean lazy and fraudulent people, i'm talking the genuine article here, not including idiots)
The haircuts are free example sounds just like medicade. I have some distant relatives that I see from time to time who are on medicade with their kids.
Everytime their kid sneeze they take them to the ER or Dr. They are no strangers to the ER themselves. Must be nice, to just go run off to the Dr all the time and have a $5 co-pay or none at all. They take kids to the Dr. when not sick just to be sure cause they are going on vacation! Makes me sick, I pay thru the eyes every week for my healthcare and still have trouble paying the Dr. bills that come in after insurance pays their portion.
Everytime their kid sneeze they take them to the ER or Dr. They are no strangers to the ER themselves. Must be nice, to just go run off to the Dr all the time and have a $5 co-pay or none at all. They take kids to the Dr. when not sick just to be sure cause they are going on vacation! Makes me sick, I pay thru the eyes every week for my healthcare and still have trouble paying the Dr. bills that come in after insurance pays their portion.
The gov. was and has been asleep at the switch by failing to act correctly in the capacity of a regulating authority. Thats how we got to where we are in the first place. Free market econonmics work well for some things and not so well for others...It's one thing to pay dearly for a luxury item and quite another when it comes to life and health. When the issue of seeing a doctor or getting a procedure done is predicated on whether or not one can afford it or whether or not insurance will cover it, then there's a problem.
Either the gov needs regulate the insurance companies and even the playing field so that everyone can afford health insurance or nationalize/subsidize the health care system.
Peter
Either the gov needs regulate the insurance companies and even the playing field so that everyone can afford health insurance or nationalize/subsidize the health care system.
Peter
Please Read And Reply
The biggest problem with this country is its lack of true patriotism and unity.
Every American will go on and on about how they love their country.. but what do they love? The highways? The buldings? Malls? Mountains? Rivers? Beaches? Clearance Sales? How about the people? How many can actually say they LOVE their fellow Americans? More than likely they don't include those who aren't part of their strand of the American fabric. Whether it be political persuasion, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. In my opinion this is a big reason why people are against socialized, universal, single payer, etc. healthcare. They don't feel that with having a free healthcare system for all, that they are doing a good thing for their country. To them its almost like helping another COUNTRY! It easy for a country like the UK, France, Argentina, Italy, who in my opinion have a much stronger sense of patriotism (not to mention almost as ethnically diverse as the US) to set up a system to help OTHERS. America and its culture is very much a everyman for himself atmosphere. Which is great if you have true ambition and ready to run over anyone who gets in your way. Nice guys finish last here. Wellfare for all? No way. But I stongly support a HIGHLY REGULATED PRIVATE healthcare industry. Our gov't needs to be on OUR side during negotiations on drug costs, health insurance premiums, etc. Instead of catering to these monster corps. who couldn't give less of a **** about you, me, our doctors, or our kids. Dont get me wrong, Government sucks... but should private companies whose only legal obligation is to provide profits for stock holders, be in charge of our health? No... not withour strict regulation by the gov't so they cannot deny coverage, payment, or support to ANY American, regardless of prior health concerns. Not to mention there are generic drugs out there that cost $1 that will do the same job as the $50 brand name medication they push on us here.
TO THE POST ABOVE MINE... ^^^
I doubt your relatives get satisfaction out of going to the doctor for cheap. Its a relief on their finances, but what do they GET out of it? Cash? No... just healthcare when they feel they need it. And thats just fine with me. The people who benifit the most from your relatives frquent visits, are the docotrs...its money in their pockets. Would you rather you get the same coverage THEY DO? Or have them have the same coverage YOU DO? My guess is neither. If medicade is being abused, fix it. That doesn't mean all gov't supported (not dominated) systems will be abused, im sure we can all figure something out to balance it out.
PS. I love America, and its people. All of them. We have a choice within a spectrum of two extremes. Government run healthcare, or corporate run healthcare. Lets find a common ground, this isnt a black and white issue, and neither should be our solutions.
The biggest problem with this country is its lack of true patriotism and unity.
Every American will go on and on about how they love their country.. but what do they love? The highways? The buldings? Malls? Mountains? Rivers? Beaches? Clearance Sales? How about the people? How many can actually say they LOVE their fellow Americans? More than likely they don't include those who aren't part of their strand of the American fabric. Whether it be political persuasion, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. In my opinion this is a big reason why people are against socialized, universal, single payer, etc. healthcare. They don't feel that with having a free healthcare system for all, that they are doing a good thing for their country. To them its almost like helping another COUNTRY! It easy for a country like the UK, France, Argentina, Italy, who in my opinion have a much stronger sense of patriotism (not to mention almost as ethnically diverse as the US) to set up a system to help OTHERS. America and its culture is very much a everyman for himself atmosphere. Which is great if you have true ambition and ready to run over anyone who gets in your way. Nice guys finish last here. Wellfare for all? No way. But I stongly support a HIGHLY REGULATED PRIVATE healthcare industry. Our gov't needs to be on OUR side during negotiations on drug costs, health insurance premiums, etc. Instead of catering to these monster corps. who couldn't give less of a **** about you, me, our doctors, or our kids. Dont get me wrong, Government sucks... but should private companies whose only legal obligation is to provide profits for stock holders, be in charge of our health? No... not withour strict regulation by the gov't so they cannot deny coverage, payment, or support to ANY American, regardless of prior health concerns. Not to mention there are generic drugs out there that cost $1 that will do the same job as the $50 brand name medication they push on us here.
TO THE POST ABOVE MINE... ^^^
I doubt your relatives get satisfaction out of going to the doctor for cheap. Its a relief on their finances, but what do they GET out of it? Cash? No... just healthcare when they feel they need it. And thats just fine with me. The people who benifit the most from your relatives frquent visits, are the docotrs...its money in their pockets. Would you rather you get the same coverage THEY DO? Or have them have the same coverage YOU DO? My guess is neither. If medicade is being abused, fix it. That doesn't mean all gov't supported (not dominated) systems will be abused, im sure we can all figure something out to balance it out.
PS. I love America, and its people. All of them. We have a choice within a spectrum of two extremes. Government run healthcare, or corporate run healthcare. Lets find a common ground, this isnt a black and white issue, and neither should be our solutions.
No one even government should have the right or take the right to force anyone to pay any sort of charity with penalty of imprisonment or loss of property if they don't.
I understand some people don't have money for this or that, this is where the church or free organizations operating from charitable contributions come in to play.
If your deserving many people will freely give from there own hearts, but at no time should anyone be robbed of the choice!!
Canada dose not have free health care, you pay it in your taxes.
I understand some people don't have money for this or that, this is where the church or free organizations operating from charitable contributions come in to play.
If your deserving many people will freely give from there own hearts, but at no time should anyone be robbed of the choice!!
Canada dose not have free health care, you pay it in your taxes.
Won't socialized medicine make it easier for a NAU? Socialized medicine, next stop Amero? *groans Too many people are uninvolved in current events enough to:
1. Know and understand whats going on.
2. Expend any energy to change or force their elected representatives to change a bad situation.
Beyond the latest sales and next movie blockbuster the average person knows and cares little about current events.
The shortest conversations I have are about things like these. They're short because the person I'm speaking with is either too uncomfortable from being ignorant in the area of conversation and leaves, or their ignorance is shown in their dialog and I have to excuse myself.
1. Know and understand whats going on.
2. Expend any energy to change or force their elected representatives to change a bad situation.
Beyond the latest sales and next movie blockbuster the average person knows and cares little about current events.
The shortest conversations I have are about things like these. They're short because the person I'm speaking with is either too uncomfortable from being ignorant in the area of conversation and leaves, or their ignorance is shown in their dialog and I have to excuse myself.
I tend to agree with FM. I heartily support charitable institutions in their endeavors,but to mandate that everyone contribute into a central system is just wrong.What is even more wrong is to base it upon income.There is alsothe factor of
eople who make no effort whatsoever,to maintain good health,thru diet,thru exercise,thru good life habits,like abstaining from smoking.How fair is it to bill a healthy person for the cost of caring for overweight smokers?
eople who make no effort whatsoever,to maintain good health,thru diet,thru exercise,thru good life habits,like abstaining from smoking.How fair is it to bill a healthy person for the cost of caring for overweight smokers?Sorry but Doctors are not store owners. To me they fall under the same category as police, firefighters, and paramedics... people who preform a vital role in our society. Lawyers dont are provided to those who cant afford it, and legal defence is a necesity in our society.... Are the defendents STEALING? And give me a break, these people arent STEALING their HEALTH. That makes zero sense. And is not a black and white issue... only to you it is. Every body's situation is different, as to why they cant get healthcare.
Whether they are denied ANY coverage becuase of diabetes, cancer, etc. or they are charged unaffordable rates because of it. Or they choose not to work and pay for it themselves. These are two different situations that SHOULD NOT be treated the same. SO.... NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Only to you.
Im sure you would argue that all these lazy people are waiting around for free healthcare to come about so they can go in for their daily doctor's visit, courtesy of uncle sam. Thats just ridiculous, we dont have 40,000,000 hypocondriacs.
If you think the status quo is just fine then you probably work for Humana, Phizer, Merck, or any one of those other leeches.
I dont understand how people can use the constitution, declaration of independence, etc in defense of a system that benefits NO-ONE except soulless, ownerless, and morally bankrupt corporations, who contribute NOTHING to our country besides what little taxes they pay. And dont argue that they provide all the new tech. advances and new medicines because of the free market. Im almost positive they sit on new medicines to be released at the best time to maximize profits.
If the system stands how it is now... then i suggest everyone start going to medical school to treat themselves... but wait, the AMA limits how many doctors graduate per year (to keep costs high)... Its all about $$$ not PEOPLE.
ANOTHER THING, IF YOUTHINK FEDERAL INCOME TAX DIRECTLY PAYS FOR HEALTHCARE, YOUR MISTAKEN.
PS> This is a political argument, nothing personal
Whether they are denied ANY coverage becuase of diabetes, cancer, etc. or they are charged unaffordable rates because of it. Or they choose not to work and pay for it themselves. These are two different situations that SHOULD NOT be treated the same. SO.... NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Only to you.
Im sure you would argue that all these lazy people are waiting around for free healthcare to come about so they can go in for their daily doctor's visit, courtesy of uncle sam. Thats just ridiculous, we dont have 40,000,000 hypocondriacs.
If you think the status quo is just fine then you probably work for Humana, Phizer, Merck, or any one of those other leeches.
I dont understand how people can use the constitution, declaration of independence, etc in defense of a system that benefits NO-ONE except soulless, ownerless, and morally bankrupt corporations, who contribute NOTHING to our country besides what little taxes they pay. And dont argue that they provide all the new tech. advances and new medicines because of the free market. Im almost positive they sit on new medicines to be released at the best time to maximize profits.
If the system stands how it is now... then i suggest everyone start going to medical school to treat themselves... but wait, the AMA limits how many doctors graduate per year (to keep costs high)... Its all about $$$ not PEOPLE.
ANOTHER THING, IF YOUTHINK FEDERAL INCOME TAX DIRECTLY PAYS FOR HEALTHCARE, YOUR MISTAKEN.
PS> This is a political argument, nothing personal
Yknow... everyone would be happy if the system for socialized healthcare was entirely voluntary. Those who wanted it could participate, and those who wanted to do their own thing would be free to do so.
The only reason we don't have this is because one group of people always thinks their way is the best way and that it should be the only way. There is no reason why several economic systems can't live within one political and legal system, so why not simply detach such matters from politics and make everything completely voluntary?
The only reason we don't have this is because one group of people always thinks their way is the best way and that it should be the only way. There is no reason why several economic systems can't live within one political and legal system, so why not simply detach such matters from politics and make everything completely voluntary?
The point that I was trying to make is that some people are very abusive to the system and we are all paying for it. Me and almost all people who pay their own health coverage think two and three times before going to seek medical treatment. What is this going to cost me? Are we really sick enough to go to ER? Its just like anything else that is given away for free, the value is unappreciated.
Guys I might not fit in with the norm. I actually pay my own expenses as they come. broke arm, pay the bill, daughter sick, pay the bill. tumor removed, pay the bill. You kinda get what I mean. up until 3 years ago I paid insurance for my family. I watched my bill go from 65 dollars(single man) monthly climb a steady pace as I got married had kids and at its highest price it was 1300.00 a month, still had to pay co-pays and set prescriptions amounts of 20, 40 80.
I got tired of paying the insurance company this amount of money every month, on the thought " something might happen, what would you do, scare"
I stopped paying them and started depositing the same amount into a separate account that generates some interest.
my first year we had 9200.00 left over. the second year we had including the first year 17,000 and our third year we had a total of 24,000 ish.
This is what the insurance company would have right now if I kept paying them.
The bigest problems have been I have had to fight with some shady hospital bill( mainly charges for stuff they did not do) you know doctors will charge you if they walk past your room. crooks!!
some people think we are crazy for this but so far it has work out nicely. If we ever had a major problem, they will work out a payment plan. We just would not get the "pay first" discount. If we just had to have money then maybe a loan that we would pay with the money that would have went to the insurance companies.
I also like to haggle and compare prices from different places. It works just like any other business but they are just not used to this style of work. kinda confuses them when you want to pay for there services.
Why are people so attached to the idea someone should be paying for there self body repair?
If my transmission goes out in my truck and it cost 4500.00 dollars I don't demand that my government should fix it. if I can't afford it I get rid of my cable TV, extra car, sell off my luxury items and pay for it. Oh well it might sting for a while but we all know its coming sooner or later.
They all ready have many assisst programs for people that are incapable of working. The problem lies with the ones that can work but abuse the system.
in short,
Don't force any government crap down my throat, I don't want it!!!
I got tired of paying the insurance company this amount of money every month, on the thought " something might happen, what would you do, scare"
I stopped paying them and started depositing the same amount into a separate account that generates some interest.
my first year we had 9200.00 left over. the second year we had including the first year 17,000 and our third year we had a total of 24,000 ish.
This is what the insurance company would have right now if I kept paying them.
The bigest problems have been I have had to fight with some shady hospital bill( mainly charges for stuff they did not do) you know doctors will charge you if they walk past your room. crooks!!
some people think we are crazy for this but so far it has work out nicely. If we ever had a major problem, they will work out a payment plan. We just would not get the "pay first" discount. If we just had to have money then maybe a loan that we would pay with the money that would have went to the insurance companies.
I also like to haggle and compare prices from different places. It works just like any other business but they are just not used to this style of work. kinda confuses them when you want to pay for there services.
Why are people so attached to the idea someone should be paying for there self body repair?
If my transmission goes out in my truck and it cost 4500.00 dollars I don't demand that my government should fix it. if I can't afford it I get rid of my cable TV, extra car, sell off my luxury items and pay for it. Oh well it might sting for a while but we all know its coming sooner or later.
They all ready have many assisst programs for people that are incapable of working. The problem lies with the ones that can work but abuse the system.
in short,
Don't force any government crap down my throat, I don't want it!!!
Universal healthcare would be nice if they take the tax money they give to rich politicians and use it to pay doctors and update hospitals. I don't have health insurence because I can't afford to pay $1,200 dollars a year to cure me "if" I get the flue. When I get sick and sometimes I do I usually just pay the 200 bux plus 30 for the drugs and be on my way and greedy insurence companies (whos policy is to deny claims) doesnt get my money.
I know it would be a big messup if the government took over but without being a person that complains about everything I would rather have the government occasionaly screw it up like the post office, schools, highways and everything else they pay for then have people dying or sick and can't afford to pay for stuff.
Imagine a Govco employee, camping out behind a computer till quiting time, telling you "you'll be alright go on home". CROAK
If you want heath care ran like boarder security and the DMV office, vote for change.
If you want heath care ran like boarder security and the DMV office, vote for change.
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