Re: Name a non-slave state

Please name a non-slave state. The list will be shorter than the slave states. Most countries are indebted to the rich elite and the USA is no exception. That is why this thing with Greece is such a big deal. It may represent the initiating domino in a worldwide crisis that will spread quickly. Grexit is still possible but may only serve to ignite the cascade which has been prophesied to happen. Time will tell.

 

Please name a non-slave state.

Russia and Turkey

 

Anyone with simple math skills can crunch the numbers & without doubt know the present bail out (if (BIG IF) it gets finalized) will only kick the can a little further down the road. Adding additional billions of debt to already existing debt Greece cannot pay now does nothing but delay the inevitable Grexit to a later date.

Greece (the borrowers) know they cannot repay, the lenders know the same.
This just shows how insane the fiat currency based financial world is today.

 

Kicking the can was all this was about from day one. Not sure why everyone was so riled up about it. There was never any doubt a "deal" would get done.

The Greeks will get some of this forgiven, there's been enough hinting around at it from the IMF and the actual lenders so that's a win for them.

 

Countries SHOULD run out of money.


We are just so use to Fiat...

 

Even if that was true they have no one to blame but themselves.

Borrowing OPM to finance social nirvana never never land utopian policies finally ran out.

The folks that loaned the money want to be paid back under the agreed terms.

Yes, what a terrible, horrible concept.

I'd like you to explain to me what, exactly would the new currency be backed with? Olives? Tourism? Greek debt?

How much faith do you think the international community would have in a "new Greek currency"?

What do you suppose the exchange rate would be with the dollar or the euro, etc?

Don't fear though, what WILL ultimately come out of this is that some of the debt will be "forgiven" or restructured in a way that it disappears.

So the Greeks will get a discount on that loan.

And BTW, the politicians were doing exactly what the overwhelming majority of the Greeks wanted which was to STAY in the Euro. Stupid "votes" that meant nothing except a temper tantrum notwithstanding.

 

And BTW, the politicians were doing exactly what the overwhelming majority of the Greeks wanted which was to STAY in the Euro. Stupid "votes" that meant nothing except a temper tantrum notwithstanding.

Must be nice to be able to read the minds of millions of people...

The cops know that you think that when a woman says no it doesnt really mean no!?!

 

Sure looks to be the case. I'm wondering now whether debt-slavery to the global banksters is basically 21st century warfare, a new way of conquering nations and making lives miserable for their citizens as whatever meager wealth they have is hauled out.

Also, like warfare, there's the plunder aspect. Remember when Detroit was "forced" to go bankrupt? Evidently they too had to auction off priceless art, artifacts, etc. that the museum had accumulated over the past century or so. Or at least there was talk about it.

Same with Greece. Could be that these banksters have massive palatial estates on islands around the world, and are thinking about adding some classical Greek statuary to their lawns...

 

Greece owes money, debt makes them a slave, nothing else. Been that way since the beginning of time.

The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender. Prov. 22:7

 

America is on the same path. We (the government) have already spent way more than can be repaid. We've spent more money then exists actually. The OPs right though, the only reason we get away with it is that we owe most of it to ourselves and we're a faster, bigger fish than Greece. I'm sure the piper will come for us some day, probably pretty soon.

 

America is on the same path. We (the government) have already spent way more than can be repaid. We've spent more money then exists actually. The OPs right though, the only reason we get away with it is that we owe most of it to ourselves and we're a faster, bigger fish than Greece. I'm sure the piper will come for us some day, probably pretty soon.

"Faster bigger" is a gross understatement.

You realize that the GDP of Greece is smaller than the state of Vermont's, right? Not New York or California or Texas but VERMONT.

There is ZERO.ZERO comparison between Greece and the USA.

Sure there are systemic issues with the debt here but as you point out the vast majority is held by us.

There are cuts and changes coming to our social programs too never fear. It is inevitable.

 

We get away with it because we are the world's reserve currency. That means, for the vast plethora of uniformed, that every country must buy Dollars in order to purchase resources. That's a bit simplistic, but it's how it works.

We won't be forever.

The largest issue of it all was the rush of socialist scum to explain how it's not kensyian economics at fault. Greece should be a slave state. Why? Because the people there are just fine with mooching off everyone else. When you give up personal sovereignty to get free crap from the gov, you put yourself into slavery, like it or not. When enough people do it together, you give up your rights collectively as a nation.

This may be a hard concept for some.

 

You might want to look at this article: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/13/reserve-currencies.asp

There are benefits such as cheaper borrowing and imports but there also disadvantages such as raising the price of exports thus limiting our exports.

 

The folks that loaned the money want to be paid back under the agreed terms.

This is the problem they are borrowing money to run the country, if they issue their own currency, there is no debt.

 

Backed by WHAT?

I've asked this question enough I wish someone would answer it.

You're advocating that Greece simply walk away from legitimate debts and then issue a "new currency" and expect the world to accept it.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Answer this too ... would YOU put any faith in it knowing what you do about them?

The "debt" and social program obligations don't simply disappear because a "new currency" is issued.

There must be systemic program, economic and cultural changes for Greece to come out of this. Even with discounted loans.

 

Slavery implies not having a choice. The Greeks volunteered for this. They asked for the public dole be running at full steam.

If you have $10, you don't spend more than $10. Hell, save as much as you can.

This country should be leaning far right. Low taxes (but you can't have 89% not pay their taxes) low government spending, entice buisiness and investment spending. No retiring at 60 and 62 like many are.

They are getting interest rates other countries dream about. Article I was reading said about one and a half. And they, I assume the ECB, return any profit to greece.

It's always poor greece poor greece. I say poor Germans who work to feed the mouths of the Greece.

 

Not just Greece. Similar problems can be seen among PIIGS, the EU, and the U.S.

 

Life is great, everything is free and cheap. 3 month summer holidays, retire at 40, the life we want here, until the pyramid collapses.

Then you are a slave to the rich and powerful. Wait a minute, that's happen here, too.

Socialism is the super highway to communism. Wrapped up in good intentions and pc words, misleading the masses.

 

You need to know the difference between socialism, crony capitalism, fascism, libertarianism, anarchism, liberalism, conservativism, communism, plutocracy, oligarchy, etc. If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

So let's take Greece. Multi-national banksters and foreign governments are demanding bailouts and austerity, and Greece's economy is in no way, shape or form as productive as Germany's. Is it even remotely realistic that they share the same currency? And what here is "socialism"? Where's the worker-owned industry and classless society? Only a complete moron or paid blogger would call it socialism.

Germany's own social net is more generous than Greece's and nobody would call them socialist either. Paid bloggers by Goldman Sachs, etc. no doubt, just trying to deflect blame. Good luck with that!

 

It is amazing we have gotten to the point of "at least the house us not burning down as fast as it was before" or "he is burning the house down faster than the other guy". All who torch the house are arsonists.

This is what Chris Rock calls "low expectation having mother *******". Really is this the best we can do?

You see financial responsibility entails that you have good finances so that you can absorb an event if upheaval in the markets. Even Keynes himself advocated this. So now we have Rino Republicans going along with deficits that even Keynes would gasp at.

It's amazing how fast this country has turned upside down.

 

That sounds like government speak, I think you called it.

 

I am glad the deficit is going down, presumably the figures are not the usual government double speak. I would like the debt to go down as well but I am not holding my breath.

The government lies too well and too often.

 

debt will never go down as an absolute number, except by accident. Im not sure any politician is capable of not spending more than they take in.

What can happen is that our GDP/economy grows faster than the debt so as a percent of our assets, the debt gets smaller.

If our spending were to stay constant, but our economy grew at 3%, then that would be a huge win. We dont need to make any cuts in spending to eliminate the deficit.

 

As an individual, I agree that if you voluntarily borrow money, you are in a binding contract and the debt should be repaid. This is of course is not an absolute, as we have bankruptcy and default. But as a matter of good business practice, yes, debts must be repaid.

So what do you do in a case where the actual debt and repayment terms are created by the lender in concert with corrupt government leaders. The lender pays to get favorable terms and corrupt government officials use the money to enrich their supporters and maintain their political power. Neither has any concerns about the effect this debt will have on their population and their descendants, whom will be paying interest on this debt their entire lives.

The rules of the game are fixed by a small elite at the top of the political /economic ladder. They do this purely to benefit themselves and maintain control of the masses. The fact that this debt load cripples the economy and reduces the standard of living of everyone is of no consequence to them. All that matters is that the interest payments are made in full and on time.

So now that I'm finished talking about the United States, let's talk about Greece. Yes they are socialist idiots (oxymoran), but they still deserve a chance to be free and to prosper. Will they choose this path, I seriously doubt it. All the smart ones have left the country long ago and the slaves that remain will fear change and increased responsibility and accountability.

What Greece should do is to ditch EU and default on all their debt. Basically stick one in the eye of the Global Governance folks. By pushing the reset button, they get a fresh start and if they can commit to behaving like adults, they can make Greece a better place.

Establishing a New Dracma based on Gold or Silver would be a good start. The U.S. Treasury was required to have 40% physical Gold reserves when we were on the Gold Standard and this would be a good standard to aspire to.

Having Zero business, personal income and wealth taxes would draw companies to Greece in the long term and simulate the local economy in the short term. Real Banking Privacy (Secrecy) like the Swiss used to have would also bring in cash liquidity in the long term.

Sale of Government owned property/land and reliance on (low) import duties would provide some revenue. Sin taxes, (small) sales tax, fuel taxes, etc. would also be sources of revenue.

Pensions would have to be cut and funded from payroll taxes. People under 65 years of age would need to work and some will have to be "un-retired". The civil servant class would be mostly fired as the majority of government workers in Greece are a drain on the economy.

These are just the beginning of what would be required and the Greeks simply have no stomach for it. As long as the power stays on and they have some food, the slaves will be content.

The great majority of the U.S., the 55% of the population whom rely on Government handouts to survive will likely feel and act as the majority of Greeks now do.

Our Founders gave us a Republic, whether or not we can keep it, is in doubt.

 

Greece national debt compared to USA:

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates

Per Person Re GDP
Greece $35,256 163%
USA $56,720 104%