Check these guys out. Great gear, a little pricey, but awsome stuff. I dont know if any of these meet all your needs, but check it out.

http://www.tripleaughtdesign.com/Apparel/Jackets

 

Looks like they have some really good stuff. If only they were goretex lined and a bit thicker/insulated their jackets would be perfect. I def would use their jackets for moderately cold weather because they do have a lot of the features im looking for.

 

What do you mean by extreme cold weather, -50 Deg?
BTW, I have a couple that fit the bill, just not the color you are looking for.
Guys up on the pipeline get there stuff at the Army/Navy store up here but you can often find it cheap on craigslist or at garage sales
You can take the colored stripes off with a seam ripper.

 

http://www.rei.com/product/801390

It may not be Gore-tex by name, but it's the same technology. It has a zip out down lining that makes it crazy warm. Like if it isn't below zero, and I'm walking, I might break a sweat warm. I got one in all black, and for the price and features (waterproof, windproof, waterproof zippers, pit zips, zip out down jacket you can wear on its own etc.) it just cant be beat.

 

yeah something thats -50 degrees would be good too Tundra. Can you be a little more specific? I have a couple good army surplus stores up my way so I might be able to find them. Also I have a columbia outlet up here too so I will check those out as well. Thanks, Any more suggestions for an ultimate goretex/like winter survival jacket?

 

I stick with North Face gear. It's a little pricey but it works great. Alot of their fleeces and down jackets zip into each other for layering. Columbia, Patagonia, Marmot, are all good also. Anything from the REI store in the link posted above is generally good quality.

 

http://www.columbia.com/Men's-Lhotse-Mountain™-II-Parka/WM7098,default,pd.html

the omni-heat technology is a mylar like technology that reflects body heat back to you. it seems neat

 

Be careful of Gortex materials in true -30 temps. If you sweat at all the interior pores will plug creating a barrier and the material will cease to breath causing you to over heat even further.

Trekking on skis or snowshoes, or setting up and breaking camp generates so much heat and moisture that it quickly over-comes the breathability of these fabrics when its cold. The moisture frosts up on the inside of the garment, plugging the membrane, and soon it's a sauna in there, causing you to become soaked with sweat, and that's not good. The waterproof breathable membrane is also laminated to a fine synthetic shell that will not hold up to the abrasion of winter camping in the bush, and will melt through with spark holes around the fire.

I've found more traditional materials work better for me. Wool is king especially when the correct base layer is used and a traditional Anorak is used over it. A lot of the modern materials are great when the user has access to warm dry shelter, hot showers and so on. For sustained activity over days in an extreme cold environment they lose their properties fairly quickly. YMMV but this has been my experience.

 

Is it correct that an anorak is made of leather and must be treated with fish oil to keep it waterproof?

 

Mine is not.

Empire Canvas makes the one I use, found here.

 

Try:
http://www.cabelas.com/browse.cmd?categoryId=105870780&WTz_l=Unknown;cat105591780;cat105697980

Great gear and good deals.

 

Try steepandcheap.com

My advice is to buy a goretex (recommend gore-tex PRO) SHELL, then layer underneath. Marmot and Outdoor research make some in earth tones, and you might luck out and find an Arcteryx one there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARCTERYX-MENS-B...ET-AMAZON-SIZE-X-LARGE-/160516484270?pt=US_CSA_MC_Outerwear&hash=item255f872cae

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arcteryx-Beta-A...Mens-Brown-Teak-XL-NWT-/190486252058?pt=US_CSA_MC_Outerwear&hash=item2c59dd8a1a

 

So is it waterproof? How often do you have to treat it to keep it waterproof and what do you use? Does it breath in -30 temps?

 

Yes it breaths, it's cotton.

As far as waterproof goes, it's not really meant for use above freezing thus any precipitation is snow. I've had snow build up on it but not melt as I brush it off. It isn't waterproof, another reason why it's used in layers, primarily wool. Wool retains it's heat retaining properties when wet, better than any synthetic ever devised. It also doesn't burn like synthetics so camp fires don't leave pin holes in it.

An Anorak is not meant to be used on it's own. Staying warm in the winter while spending large amounts of time outside is only possible when you use a system of layers and materials. The common misconception with people who've not done a lot of outdoors activity in extreme cold, they think thick, big, heavy coats and parkas. That's ok for sedentary ice fishing or something but not for activity. They are bulky, cumbersome and over heating if you are doing any work at all. If you do commence heavy activity in these sort of garments you will sweat and when you sweat you're really getting into dicey territory for hypothermia. A system is required for comfort in extreme cold, you won't find it in singular garments.

The phrase cotton kills is so misused it's not funny. Cotton will kill you as a base layer as it does not move moisture away and creates a cold sink on the skin bleeding you of heat. As an outer shell it works because it lets heat out. Anoraks like that are to be worn over layers, it isn't an end all outer layer.

A cotton anorak will load up with moisture absorbed from the heat your body is producing, pushing all that moisture out and through your inner fleece or wool layers. One of the things I do is squeeze my arms into my chest when I start to get too hot, this pushes that internal heat out of the garment. I know it sounds crazy to say you need to get stay cool to stay warm but the concept is critical to understand. On high humidity days the anorak will actually get wet, even when well below freezing, and the fabric will itself freeze. That's absolutely no problem since its on the very outside of your system. It stays pliable because of its fabric properties and your body heat. Even when frozen the moisture will sublimate. Around the fire it dries as you wear it, and you will see the steam come off it. Staying warm isn't so much about keeping all of your body heat, as it is keeping the right amount of body heat. Too much and you sweat causing moisture build up, which then steals your body heat faster than you can generate it. Only a system of clothing can help regulate that heat exchange.

For anyone considering an Anorak or just looking for more knowledge about winter trekking and activities www.wintertreakking.com is one heck of a great resource.

For more detail on why an Anorak and layers are superior here is a great break down of the benefits and proper use.

 

Thank you very much for this info. I have only experienced temps down to about 20 below so I am unfamiliar with the techniques for colder temps (but if this global warming keeps up I am sure I will soon experience really low temps).

One question I have though is I can understand brushing off snow so it doesn't melt and penetrate, but you say the anorak will soak up the moisture from the inner wicking layers (I use polypropylene and wool - I think fleece is cotton). When it does that, doesn't the moisture freeze as it hits the outer layer of the anorak and prevents it from breathing - which then means even more moisture builds up inside - a vicious circle.

 

One question I have though is I can understand brushing off snow so it doesn't melt and penetrate, but you say the anorak will soak up the moisture from the inner wicking layers (I use polypropylene and wool - I think fleece is cotton). When it does that, doesn't the moisture freeze as it hits the outer layer of the anorak and prevents it from breathing - which then means even more moisture builds up inside - a vicious circle.

Mine will develop an icing on the outside when this happens, because it is loose fitting the air pocket of warmth will still develop on the inside. By squeezing the anorak to you the moisture laden air is forced out of the garment. You can manually evacuate that air as needed, it's one of the design elements in a good anorak that sets is apart from modern materials and designs.

Because cotton will pull moisture from your layers underneath it prevents cold and clammy materials being next to your skin, all you need to do at that stage is occasionally evacuate the moist air in order to prevent the under layers from getting wet.

Cotton anoraks are deliberately sized very big and baggy and long over the hips for protection from wind. This allows for almost unlimited combinations of layering underneath, and a bellows effect for pumping hot moist air out. When your arms are outstretched horizontal with your layers on underneath, you should almost see mini "bat wings" under the anorak arms, which allows for excellent pumping of air, and no binding for movement. Never size your anorak too small or tight because it won't work nearly as well.

 

I have a North Face Mountain Light Jacket. Has worked awesome for Michigan. Never had it in -50 below. Does not come with a liner, so you will have to buy a fleece vest or jacket to zip in...

 

Hmm the anorak sounds interesting. I just invested in a 50/50 cotton/nyco SAS smock clone. It was > $100, but unfortunately, wouldn't fit your bill for non-camo.

I hope I never get the chance to test it in -50 weather! It help up very nicely with the recent weather in the teens, and wind gusts 25 mph +.

 

I am not sure if REI still offers it but some time ago I got what they call their technical jacket. the one I have is a dark green and black, so its presentable for everyday use and blends well in the forest but it is not camo. It is a goretex shell and you can zip in fleece or thinsulate liners or just use the shell as a rain jacket. It has zippered vents under the arms and a detachable hood that also fits in the collar. The wrists can be easily made loose or tight. It has a long length. The idea is that add of remove layers or increase the venting to control heat and moisture. Prior to Smokin's educating me I thought it would be good for even extreme cold if sufficient layers were worn underneath.

 

It might would do just fine since it has alternative venting. The problem I was talking about is specific to Gortex style membranes in high activity at -30 and deeper. The way it breaths gets over come with moisture to the point that the membrane clogs with it and freezes over internally even.

As long as you can vent and control moisture build up it should be fine.

BTW, I'm no expert at all, just going on what I've experienced first hand and passing along some of what I have learned from others.

 

I believe it is more than a "TAD" expensive. No pun intended.

That is stupid expensive. I am all for nice gear don't get me wrong, but that is ridiculous