Update:

My buddy showed up with the same levergun and we ran it thru a few drills just for fun. ( Also popped a feral pig with it again.)Since this here site stems from a " survivalist" mindset, I figured some here might be in the results.

Note: He did have some work done to it since the initial run. Didn't get into much detail, but the lever gun cycles a bit smoother now.

One thing was certain. 0 chance of operator induced shortstroke with the AK, while the both of us suffered a few with the slicked up lever.


He also informed me that this particular lever gun is picky when it comes to ammunition it likes. ( He is stickin with the same load unless he finds another in a 158gr slug or so.....as he would rather hunt with the bigger one.

Next time he is up this way, I will try and get it under the labradar with some 158gr bullets.

11B

 

The 7.62x39 can be handloaded with 150-grain Hornady .312" diameter spire points and with full charges of RL7 or 4198 you get about 2200 fps from a 20-inch SKS. Not sure how well it would do in a shorter barrel, as I never tried that. But if you are of the "heavy bullets are better" school of thought, the 7.62x39 with 150s gives higher velocity than 158-grainers in a .357 carbine and has a much better ballistic form which retains its velocity better than the blunt pistol slugs. The Hornady spire point bullets perform well on deer at woods ranges.

 

Judging from the data we have collected so far, I would say that you are correct in that assessment regarding these 2 cartridges.

I tried some 150gr 7.62x39mm loads in this pistol, and it didn't much care for them.....but it could be an option for those that subscribe to the " bigger bullet" school of thought. From my experience with using 7.62x39mm as a hunting cartridge, the difference between a 123/ 125/ 150 grain pill pushed out of this particular case is near close to zero.
Can't remember the details with the Norinco SKS / AK47S rifles off hand, but my WASR1963 was not particularly fond of 150gr bullets either

On the other end.....my buddy is interested in trying out bigger bullets for his lever gun.....and he already reloads 357 magnum.

11B

 

-you have the slightly heavier milled receiver.
-you do not have a folding brace.

 

You are correct regarding the receiver, as the stamped receiver version of mine has a reported dry weight of 6.55 lbs.

The brace does not fold. It is collapsible/ adjustable if one happens to own the right sized Allen wrench. That is why the OAL can vary.....depending g on the length you have the brace extended at.

Stocks that " fold" have an OAL with stock in folded position and an OAL with stock locked open.

Example below pics: The AK with stamped receiver sports a folding stock while the other with milled receiver sports the brace.
11B

 

I have both. I also have two 7.62x39 rifles (sks and ar). The 7.62x39 is by far better. Honestly, I think it's the most versatile caliber out there.

 

I thought that it would be an interesting comparison to share here, as 357mag benefits with longer bbls overall, while 7.62x39mm does not loose that much velocity with shorter tubes.

In this case, there are a few other advantages .

This AK is a pistol, so can be utilized with a CCW permit....thus carried concealed in the legal sense.

Since there are states out there that consider it illegal to transport rifles ( including SBRs) loaded, this pistol would not have this disadvantage .

Currently using 123gr Fed Fusion vs hogs with this pistol. 43 dead pigs so far with this pistol alone.

11B

 

Can be carried on a Pennsylvania License to Carry:

7.62X51...

 

Update:
Im currently going over the collected data that entail a comparison of this AK pistol with a rifle in 44magnum.



11B

 

Ok.
The data for 44 mag is collected.

First off, a bit about the 44 mag rifle used for this data......

A brand new Marlin 1894 that my buddy recently aquired. ( Order # 70400)

OAL = 38.5 inches
Dry weight = 6.5 lbs
Barrel length = 20 inches
Fixed tube 10rd magazine

Ammo: Winchester 250gr Partition gold.
Note: The box stated a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps with 867 ft lbs of energy. ( I take it that they used a handgun of some type for thier numbers, as the rifle we used achieved quite a bit more)


Marlin 1894 44mag numbers below:

Muzzle: 1809 fps with 1815 ft lbs of energy

50 yards: 1625 fps with 1465 ft lbs of energy

100 yards: 1460 fps with 1180 ft lbs

150 yards: 1310 fps with 955 ft lbs

200 yards: 1190 fps with 785 ft lbs of energy at impact.

Terminal effects were limited this time, as my buddy only dumped 3 pigs while he was here hunting them. However, the 3 he did take all showed fairly catastrophic wounds, and all 3 were taken inside of 50 yards. 357 mag thru a rifle pales in comparison, and it more than rivals 7.62x39mm 125gr jhp thru the AK pistol.

As to weight in loaded ammo, 7.62x39mm is lighter in weight , while 44 magnum weighs about the same as loaded 308 ammunition. ( A no contest as to which cartridge is more versatile in 44 mag vs 308 in my experience)

11B

 

They all sound like excellent woods cartridges for game up to 250 lbs and ranges not too much over 100 yards which covers most shots.
For longer ranges the 7.62x39 in rifle format has the edge and is a semiauto in the AK.

 

AK rifle = around 150 to 200 fps over the AK pistol.

The SKS is around 50 to 75 fps over the AK rifle.

11B

 

Just got a .350 Legend upper, carbine length. Should handle heavier slugs than .357 or 7.62X39. Still, I do like the .44 and .357 magnums out of a carbine.

 

Sounds like a fun little study. I’m a fan of lever guns myself. My favorite rifle is my 1928 Winchester ‘94 30-30. It has a 19 inch barrel, and weighs right at 6lbs with a full tube of 150 grain pow’r-shok Federal ammo. Handy little brush gun, especially in the manzanita thickets and oak glades of Northern California. (Anecdote: I once killed a coyote at around 300 ish yards with this rifle)

I thought about getting my AR chambered in 7.62x39, but I figured my 30-30 had that ballistic realm (30 caliber mid level power) covered.

I’d like to get into the 357 cartridge here before too long. I’ve got a hankering to toss some 158 grain Kieth bullets down range at some high velocities (looking at either a Blackhawk/GP100 or an Uberti 1875).

Also, I’m trying to get my girlfriend into shooting, and a light 38 special load through a Marlin rifle/heavy revolver is less intimidating than my AR and Beretta. It could make a decent prep for her, especially if I can get her to train with them. But that’s another story...

 

Love lever guns here. ( Very fond of an old 94 winny chambered in 32 win spl that my sister ended up with.
Note: We are both left hand/ left eye dominant.

While I have a Glenfield in 3030, I don't stock much ammo for it as I do with 7.62x39mm for similar reasons.....as they both fill the same purpose in regards to hunting.
A few other reasons......

1. 7.62x39mm loaded ammo is lighter in weight vs 3030.

2. 7.62x39mm ammo costs much less.

3. My group stocks 7.62x39mm rather deep already, and has since the early 80s.

4. The AK types also serve another purpose here. ( std capacity 30rd dbm and 75rd drums in an extremely reliable, easy to use/ maintain, and compact little rifle and/ or pistol gives plenty in regards to versatility.

11B

 

I would avoid Denver county CO with AK pistol however....

11B

 

I have a couple fully tuned 1892s in .357 mag
They are good out to 150 yards and even 200 yards
Reloaders have gotten great ballistics fron the 7.62 x 39
Out to 300 yards
The 7.62 x 39 has the advantage
I ave both pistols and rifles in 7.62 x 39
The .30-30 should be in the mix as well
All of them do real good
All of them are in the same zone
I have the all
I like them all
Thank God we have nothing but good choices

 

I already did a comparison using my Glenfield 3030 ( Marlin 336) , next to my AK rifle and SKS. ( Another using an older Winchester chambered in 32win spl. )

The short answer: Enjoy both of yours as the critters won't know the difference between either.( 3030 or 7.62x39mm) Niether has great ballistics at 300 yards. With that said, my bone stock plain Jane Wasr10 has been used to dump pigs out to and past 300 yards using cheap metal card 125gr JSP on occasion.

One request: Please share pics of these firearms.....lever guns in particular.

11B

 

bottom line, how did each do on game?

 

7.62x39mm is the clear winner in every way when it comes to feral pigs .

In simple terms : observations at time of impact, a better damage path that is more consistent, and from any angle of impact to over double the distance.
If the pig is still running after, the damage created will leave a better track to follow. Being a semi, follow up shots can be delivered in less time.( In my case)
More options available when it comes to shot placement, which is why it trumps the other in terms of stalk hunting.....especially multiple targets.

357mag in a rifle is best utilized as a close range ambush hunting tool where shot placement is easier to select, and multiple targets are not on the menu. .....as thier is a higher probability that tracking down the animal will be needed after its hit. ( Best placement = broadside shot to the upper base of neck or right below the ear. Quartering away for a boiler room hit is another, but the pig will most likely run after. I would avoid facing shots.


11B

 

Thanks, I don't own a 7.62X69. I did pop a boar at 20 yards with a 30-30 and one with my 357 rifle at the same distance. both dropped but not much to say as the distance was 20 yards and my dogs had them penned under a manzanita bush. I tend to consider 30-30 and 7.62X39 as about the same but the firearms are very different.

 

I would agree that 3030 and 7.62x39mm are very close in comparison.

Here is the data I accumulated with the same lab radar chrono concerning 3030 Winchester:

Rifle : Lever action Glenfield ( Marlin 336) with 20 inch bbl.

Ammo : Winchester 170gr Silvertip
Weight = 4.91 lbs per 100 rds.

Muzzle : 2200 fps with 1825 ft lbs of energy.

50 yards : 2055 fps with 1595 ft lbs of energy.

100 yards: 1920 fps and 1390 ft lbs energy

150 yards: 1785 fps / 1205 ft lbs of energy

200 yards : 1660 fps with 1040 ft lbs of energy at impact.

Note: With a 100 yard zero, this load fired from my 20in bbl rifle drops 2.6 inches at 150yds, and 8 inches at 200 yards.
..................................................

Same rifle using Hornady 160gr FTX ( Leverution) :

Note: Hornady uses a 24 inch " test" bbl to accumulate thier numbers. As mentioned before, my rifle = a 20inch bbl.

Muzzle : 2273 fps/ 1835 ft lbs
100 yds: 2030 fps/ 1460 ft lbs
200 yards : 1800 fps/ 1155 ft lbs
300 yards : 1595 fps / 880 ft lbs of energy at impact.

Note : With a 100 yard zero, this load produces the following:

-2 inches at 150yds
- 7 inches at 200 yards
-14.3 inches at 250 yards
-25 inches at 300 yards.

...............

In comparison : WASR 1063 ( 16in bbl) and 7.62x39mm 125gr MFS Jacketed Soft point

Muzzle : 2390 fps/ 1585 ft lbs
50 yards: 2250 fps/ 1405 ft lbs
100 yards: 2115 fps / 1240 ft lbs
150 yds: 1980 fps/ 1090 ft lbs
200 yds: 1855 fps/ 960 ft lbs
250 yds: 1740 fps/ 835 ft lbs
300 yards: 1620 fps/ 735 ft lbs of energy at impact.

Note: With a 100 yard zero this combo produces the following:

150 yards: -2 inches
200 yds: -6.3 inches
250 yards : -13 inches
300 yards : -23 inches

Note: Ammo weight = 3.75 lbs per 100 rds

Note: I would have used data obtained from a 20in bbl SKS., but have not located that data ad yet.

Note: It costs me more to reload 3030 than to buy MFS JSP 7.62x39mm. ( And yes......I factor in MY time involved to reload. )

Note: Felt recoil ( free recoil energy) is a bit more in a 3030 Lever gun vs a 7.62x39mm semiauto.

I grew up shooting and hunting with both. Feral hogs and deer vs several states as well as coyotes/ coydogs, various smaller critters, and up to Elk in several different states. ( Hogs with both by the hundreds, and culling deer out of a few states over the years.)
In short, there is no difference between them when it comes to hunting. The real difference has much more to do with the difference in rifles more than any other one factor.

The WASR 10 weighs a bit less than the 336.
The 336 has a 4 inch longer iron sight radius
WASR10 = a much shorter OAL. ( Especially if stock is folded away in this specific case)
Lever gun vs AK = personal preference.



11B

 

The 7.62x39 is a 125ish grain pill, the 357 125-160. The 30WCF (what is called 30-30 today)is 170gr.
It is a larger pill going slower than the 7.62x39, but has way more kinetic energy dump.

We have shot deer and other critters with all three. The 30WCF shoots the flattest of the three. with the new Lever evolution rounds 200 yards is easy. With the 170gr flat nosed ranchdogs we use(designed for the 30 WCF) It will still out range the 357 mag. Not the commie round.

 

2¢
Most bullets for the 357 Mag are designed for lower, pistol velocities.
I’d guess they don’t fare well at close range, higher velocities.
I’m sure the older Barnes 158gr flatnose boolets would be a better bet
in the carbines. My Browning B92 was stolen before I got to try it on deer.
The Barnes flatnose slugs worked fine for coup de gras on elk.