I've seen the two pattern thing work. I think that any pattern that looks like a solid blob at a distance is a fail.

 

I know a bunch of the JSOC/DEVGRU guys in the early day of Afghanistan were wearing desert camo from the Desert Storm mixed with the newer (at the time) DCU, even saw some old woodland mixed in as well.

As a Marine in that theater, we had to wear matching DCU. It wasnt bad, but multicam was better and the digicam or what ever it is called were far superior to the DCU.

 

Does that include farmers camo? This guy is a friend of mine or at least he was until I told him the elves called and wanted their pants back. He hasn't worn them since AFAIK.

 

Funny how everyone argues about camo patterns. The best ones out there have no green in them and are all 4 legged.

 

Army,

Contemporary thinking !

Arctic / polar areas aren't ideal places for forest camo.

 

Earth tone clothes with bit of shrubbery attached works.
Main issue is profile.
For woodland I’d say just normal woodland camo BDU.
I’ve picked out people wearing mossy oak brands from 100 yards shoulder sticking past the tree. Walked within 50 feet of him, clicked to get their attention, he looked, yet he never saw me. We were hunting together. He raised up, and I took off to do a semi-circle I direction I had motioned. He left. 😳
Said he heard me but never saw me. There was nothing between us how could you not? (I think some might have had to do with no facial profile cause of beard and my long hair.

Another time was laying on a slope. Hunter I wasn’t expecting passed 20 feet away looked directly at me but never saw me.

 

When I need to be hidden, a ghillie with the right colors works very well.

 

Although not great for woods, hiding out in a country bar in a Mickey Gilley outfit will make ya blend right in, so you can stand by me.

 

We hunted for years in whatever we had. I remember a gray sweatshirt and navy pants. Deer and squirrel never seemed to mind.

Being still can mean more than the clothes' color.

Well unless you are wearing this I guess.

 

Deer and squirrel don't seem to care, but waterfowl generally have excellent eyesight. If you aren't very well camouflaged, you won't get many shots.

 

The best camoflauge that I've dealt with, is usually a chrome wrench or socket/ratchet, or even bright handled screwdrivers, that I am using and sat them down somewhere with in a 3 foot radius of where I am working. They always seem to re appear after I have looked for them, 2 or 3 times, right where I put them down. Very Strange.

 

How about solid OD green in a desert like the IDF for effective? They've been phasing in various camo prints for around 5 years now, but most of the IDF (especially in urban areas) still use the standard green outfits that were originally copied from the surplus WWII uniforms the USA donated back in the 40s and 50s.

I don't wear camo anywhere that it's strictly necessary, just out fishing or hiking, but I usually opt for either civilian camo pants with a beige/grey t-shirt or khaki pants and a Desert Storm BDU jacket.

 

Tadzhik,

Still, the IDF solid green has the non-matt buttons ! I can tell them from counterpart Chinese PLA / CPAP solid green field clothes immediately.

My camo garments are whatever the large orgs give me as an emergency responder. I don't care about the pattern. I do care about whether the shirts and jackets have real cargo pockets - all 4 sides expand.

 

Im still trying to figure out the difference between disruptive grey and normal grey

 

this should be fun

 

Urban camo

urbanghilliesuit

• ImStillHere
• Jun 25, 2012

 

My secondary position for SHORAD defense at Spangdahlem AFB was inside the local junk yard, which was just outside the base fenceline. Instead of camouflage nets, I used car hoods and doors to conceal my M167 Vulcan.

It worked very well - when the evaluator approached the position, it was a lot like ED209 in Robocop when the barrels of the Vulcan burst forth from the car parts.

You now have 5 seconds to comply.
The REMF Evaluator, Sergeant Sylvester wasn't amused.

 

try to stay on target here guys.. I know its SUPER difficult.. Im not talking about what pattern is best, if solids are better than camo, if Multicam is sent straight from GOD... The topic is,,,,, is it more effective to have different patterns top vs bottom or a mix of pattern and solid.....

 

lets see who can do this........

 

The problem with mismatched camo is that is doesn't look tactical. Appearance matters you know. If you look like a dweeb you'll get treated like one. But someone in ACU's with a red, tan or green beret, now that's sharp!

Other than that, you need camo to match your vegetation. I think the new ACU's with the Multi-cam were the best. If I was a camo wearing person I'd order that for the apocalypse, at least in my area. I think the newer OCP(?) has some thermal protection?

I still think the M-65 Field Jacket looks best in woodland camo, or black.

And by looks I also mean effectiveness. You can't be effective if you can be seen.

Who are you going to take more seriously, the "squad" in the first pic or the guys in the second?

 

The problem with mismatched camo is that is doesn't look tactical. Appearance matters you know. If you look like a dweeb you'll get treated like one. But someone in ACU's with a red, tan or green beret, now that's sharp!

Other than that, you need camo to match your vegetation. I think the new ACU's with the Multi-cam were the best. If I was a camo wearing person I'd order that for the apocalypse, at least in my area. I think the newer OCP(?) has some thermal protection?

Over in this part of the state and even in the lower deserts, a somewhat faded woodland BDU blouse and DCU pants are quite effective with the vegetation. For some odd reason, the UCP ACU pants are effective for blending in up on Mingus.

 

@justanothergunnut - I tried, I really tried.

If you want the best camo anywhere, figure out how to copy my cat. You cannot see her in the dark in a clear room. She gets under a bush in our yard and just sits. You can't see her even in daylight. Incredible camo.

 

If you want the best camo anywhere, figure out how to copy my cat. You cannot see her in the dark in a clear room. She gets under a bush in our yard and just sits. You can't see her even in daylight. Incredible camo.

Just look to nature for camo. How many times have you spooked a deer that was just a few yards from you wearing their winter gray fur? Or had a rabbit that was sitting tight just a few feet from you when you stopped walking? When you stopped the rabbit thinks its been spotted and takes off. If you hadn't stopped you would have never seen it. Twice I have stepped over copper heads I never saw. Once I stepped on a rattle snake and stood on his head. I didn't know he was there until he start flipping around my feet. It was at that time I learned that men can fly without wings. At least for a short distance.

I have a little camo. Mostly woodland green. My most worn camo is just earth tone clothes in gray, green, brown and tan colors. Washed several times to get the "new" look out of them. Stay in the shadows and don't move and most don't notice you. Daniel Boone always dyed his buckskins black and swore it was the best color for the woods he hunted.

Some of the very best camo I ever saw was south American troops that had camo in splotches of different greens with big patches of sky blue. When you looked at them the sky blue patches made it look like you were seeing the sky through a hole in the brush. It really worked.

Nothing catches my eye than to be in a crowd and seeing someone with camo on.. Either pants or a shirt. I always give them a hard look to see if they are serious or just a kid who thinks camo is cool.

Bears.... Panthers...Apes

Oh My!

 

JAG,

This is a "it depends".

What is or might be camouflage for urban and surburban environments enroute to ocean or bay shore allows for viewing just about every arrangement there is.

 

Ok were bein serious? Challenge accepted!

hard lines are created when one pattern doesnt match up with the other say nothing of one camo not matching the features of the terrain youre trying to blend into therein causing more contrast and being significantly more noticeable. These effect are of course is multiplied by movement.

Additionally the eye is led by lines- for example if you have a pattern that is more horizontally orientated on top and a pattern that is more vertically orientated on bottom it will multiply the effect of the afformentioned hard lines between the garments.

Different patterns and materials absorb and reflect different amounts of light- which can cause you to stick out far more than you would if your apparel was homogenous depending in on lighting conditions. This is literal and guarenteed contrast.

You as a camoflauged feature are trying to be overlooked due appearing mundane vs the surrounding flora/terrain- the more individually unique each part of your body looks the more you draw the eye as you are an anomaly within the environment. This causes you to stick out more thereby defeating the purpose of the camoflauge.

Finally the most important part of camoflauge is positioning yourself against a backdrop that works well with said camoflauge- if you put your camo on you should have an immediate idea/plan in your head as to what features you actually want to hide near. If you are wearing something grassy- stick to grassy hides. If you are wearing something barky stick next to trees etc. Mixing and matching your camo is not conducive to the goal and mindset of actually trying to match the camo to the environment itself. If you wear different sets of camo on half then the other half-, the one half will always blend better than the other half vs finding a spot where your entire body blends properly.

Wheres my cookie?

 

Ok were bein serious? Challenge accepted!

hard lines are created when one pattern doesnt match up with the other say nothing of one camo not matching the features of the terrain youre trying to blend into therein causing more contrast and being significantly more noticeable. These effect are of course is multiplied by movement.

Additionally the eye is led by lines- for example if you have a pattern that is more horizontally orientated on top and a pattern that is more vertically orientated on bottom it will multiply the effect of the afformentioned hard lines between the garments.

Different patterns and materials absorb and reflect different amounts of light- which can cause you to stick out far more than you would if your apparel was homogenous depending in on lighting conditions. This is literal and guarenteed contrast.

You as a camoflauged feature are trying to be overlooked due appearing mundane vs the surrounding flora/terrain- the more individually unique each part of your body looks the more you draw the eye as you are an anomaly within the environment. This causes you to stick out more thereby defeating the purpose of the camoflauge.

Finally the most important part of camoflauge is positioning yourself against a backdrop that works well with said camoflauge- if you put your camo on you should have an immediate idea/plan in your head as to what features you actually want to hide near. If you are wearing something grassy- stick to grassy hides. If you are wearing something barky stick next to trees etc. Mixing and matching your camo is not conducive to the goal and mindset of actually trying to match the camo to the environment itself. If you wear different sets of camo on half then the other half-, the one half will always blend better than t the type of materialhe other half vs finding a spot where your entire body blends properly.

Wheres my cookie?

Canon,

I believe JAG did not introduce the TYPE of material the camo pattern was on; just the camo aspects.

......

... and what if wanting to hide near barky stuff but cannot due the just formed large crowds blocking these areas ?

...

Any pattern or solid color ideal for a rocky shoreline ?

...

The entire box of cookies ready for your retrival. The box is in that grassy area. For safety, don't directly pick up. Use a pike pole and wear gloves with my recommendation being YoungstownWaterproof winter gloves. Unfortunately thry're high vis green - but you'll still have useable hands.

What doesn't involve tradeoffs when so much is rapidly changing ?!

 

I could see how a 3D leafy camo top mixed with a tree bark camo pant might be better than a solid matching top and pant but only in an area that had trees that the top and pant matched.

Personally I gave up on trying to find the perfect camo years ago. Most of my gear and packs is FDE or coyote now and I have some netting I can use to weave in some branches and stuff to blend in to wherever I am once I get out of the city. In the city I have a few crappy looking torn shirts and stained pants I can use to make me look homeless and hopefully be ignored.

 

... In the city I have a few crappy looking torn shirts and stained pants I can use to make me look homeless and hopefully be ignored.

Aye, don't forget a Good 'scraggly longhair'd Wig / bathrobe.. Nothing says "Homeless; Ignore" like a legit 'Jeff Lebowsky' costume. Which is also easy to peel-off / ditch / get back to your Real-self, when the ruse is no longer good-cover (ie: Now the [enemy] is looking for a "homeless guy in bathrobe", etc..) I keep such-like in my truck, whenever venturing back into enemy-territory (pretty-much Any CA city, now.. I also keep:

Yup, a hard hat, and safety vest, nobody will dare question you!

Yep, but don't forget the AL-clipboard and 'neck-lammy' with just about Any old ID in it!

re: the OP - IME, it's more about 'context' (background / enviro) than whether you 'mix-n-match', per-se.. Does seem like, in aggregate, a 'disparate, non-uniform camo' seems to work best (ie: Why Ghillies are So successful, especially when 'tailored' with local foliage, etc) but not so sure it's as 'simple' as just mis-matching the bottom/top.. Solidly in one of those 'it Depends' categories, imo..

.02
jd

 

Majority of time, away from concealment, mismatched cammo gonna stick out.

I got curious years ago.
Tried digital woodland top, traditional woodland pant and vise versa with woods behind me. Had my sharp eyed wife get back 50 yards and compare.
Mis matched stuck out.
Best from her eyes was traditional woodland top and bottoms.

 

Majority of time, away from concealment, mismatched cammo gonna stick out.

I got curious years ago.
Tried digital woodland top, traditional woodland pant and vise versa with woods behind me. Had my sharp eyed wife get back 50 yards and compare.
Mis matched stuck out.
Best from her eyes was traditional woodland top and bottoms.

Dave,

In a large evacuating crowd would not the mis-matched make person appear as just a regular, unprepared

evacuee and the matching camo set make someone stand out as well-prepared and knew an evac would occur and some would think this person has some food and water in the matching bag ?

It's difficult to make assessments without knowing area and some specifics.

In my area, for example, a homeless person wearing all khaki sitting on cement next to convenience store while wearing a solid wool watch cap is an undercover LEO.

 

The biggest problem I have is finding stuff in the right colors. When snow is on the ground, it is easy. When it isn't, the commercial stuff is mostly too dark and too green. I need light, buff colored patterns.

 

Back in the day, we wore slant pocket OD's..

In garrison, complete uniform, starched to the max..

Our field gear was a mix of levi's, mixed OD' blouses and woodland blouses, seemed to work for us....

Today, i usually wear dark/earth trousers, non tacticool from carhart, and a camo top depending on terrain, etc.

Since i am more suburban than rural, my normal camo, is that of a computer IT pro, no one looks at me, just the way i like it...

 

only real thought I've given camo over the years is not to be wearing current US issue if it's a US civil war SHTF - and - if you have a group that is issuing a general uniform - find something unique like an overseas Euro military issue ....

 

If you are doing it for hunting check your UV signature, most game see into the UV spectrum.

Your natural UV emissions are eyes, nails and teeth, then you should do a spectrum sweep of your garments many things will fluoresce that you dont think would. You might as well be flashing a strobe light in the dark. A cheap UV light and you can get a (ghost camera) digital camera with the spectrum filters removed from the lens. This can be used as a passive observation piece. I have several illuminators each for IR and UV in wide and narrow wavelengths, as well as professional IR and UV cameras. Its what I do/did.

For IR you want to break up your emissivity profile of exposed skin and clothing. It is not just a 98.8 degree thing. People talk about tarps and mylar poncho, while better than letting it swing in the wind those still produce an outline like stated above for the visual spectrum.

IR... glass is opaque, plastics are transparent, you can see your eyes details through sunglasses. You are not hidden behind them at all in a photo capture
Emissivity it the constant that is used to determine received IR information. Use metallic based creams and paints and different materials (much like a ghillie suit) to break the IR signature up. Dont think just dropping it low is the fix that is hollywood.

Being in 100 deg temps does not make you invisible as the air does not emit a thermal signature it can scatter it some. It acts the same in the entire spectrum from UV to visible to IR and beyond each end think Xray and raidio. You know when you heat a piece of metal red hot that is you seeing into the thermal spectrum it just takes a lot of energy to see it with the naked eye. Like a visible object a thermal object has to have a physical mass in order to absorb, reflect, or radiate in that spectrum in order to be observed.

The terminator mud works not so much as a cooling agent but as an emissivity scale scattering.

This is an emissivity table and notice "SKIN" is almost a perfect 1 (constant) There are more detailed tables out there. So use this to make your IR blind and camo. You want layers with air gaps for blinds buildings you dont want to be the black square in the amber field of view. Think gold films on screens shield and glasses for NASA/military it is there for a reason. You dont need to take it to the extreme of polished metals just a few percent offset next to each other will break a thermal pattern. Metallic grease paints for skin... even desiccant can be ground up and used as a cream.

2 mins after touching a wall

Yes your dog sleeps on the couch but hears you coming

That was the cat not me on the couch

There is too much info to place in just this spot I have done similar postings in SB on this if you want to look or PM if you have questions so as not to derail too much.

 

If you are doing it for hunting check your UV signature, most game see into the UV spectrum.

Your natural UV emissions are eyes, nails and teeth, then you should do a spectrum sweep of your garments many things will fluoresce that you dont think would. You might as well be flashing a strobe light in the dark. A cheap UV light and you can get a (ghost camera) digital camera with the spectrum filters removed from the lens. This can be used as a passive observation piece. I have several illuminators each for IR and UV in wide and narrow wavelengths, as well as professional IR and UV cameras. Its what I do/did.

For IR you want to break up your emissivity profile of exposed skin and clothing. It is not just a 98.8 degree thing. People talk about tarps and mylar poncho, while better than letting it swing in the wind those still produce an outline like stated above for the visual spectrum.

IR... glass is opaque, plastics are transparent, you can see your eyes details through sunglasses.
Emissivity it the constant that is used to determine received IR information. Use metallic based creams and paints and different materials (much like a ghillie suit) to break the IR signature up. Dont think just dropping it low is the fix that is hollywood.

Being in 100 deg temps does not make you invisible as the air does not emit a thermal signature it can scatter it some. It acts the same in the entire spectrum from UV to visible to IR and beyond each end think Xray and raidio. You know when you heat a piece of metal red hot that is you seeing into the thermal spectrum it just takes a lot of energy to see it with the naked eye. Like a visible object a thermal object has to have a physical mass in order to absorb, reflect, or radiate in that spectrum in order to be observed.

The terminator mud works not so much as a cooling agent but as an emissivity scale scattering.

This is an emissivity table and notice "SKIN" is almost a perfect 1 (constant) There are more detailed tables out there. So use this to make your IR blind and camo. You want layers with air gaps for blinds buildings you dont want to be the black square in the amber field of view. Think gold films on screens shield and glasses for NASA/military it is there for a reason. You dont need to take it to the extreme of polished metals just a few percent offset next to each other will break a thermal pattern. Metallic grease paints for skin... even desiccant can be ground up and used as a cream.

View attachment 523904

2 mins after touching a wall
View attachment 523905

Yes your dog sleeps on the couch but hears you coming
View attachment 523906

That was the cat not me on the couch
View attachment 523907


There is too much info to place in just this spot I have done similar postings in SB on this if you want to look or PM if you have questions so as not to derail too much.

Ive read of this before- do you have. Experience with this stuff? Ive read mixed reviews on all thise "hex" apparel. Always been curious!

 

The British Army had the best Patten in the 70's 80's and 90's, But there was one major problem with it and that was the Black was too Black and the Green was too Green and the Brown was too Brown, None of the Colours were like what is found in nature, If you rolled around in the Mud and let it dry it worked better,

In urban areas it's better to wear what everyone else wears, In the Snow White Pants and OG or Sage Green jackets have always worked fairly well in pine forests type places,

Picking when to move and when to lie low has a big impact along with choosing what area to move through and places to avoid, Shift Shape and Shine also are things to take in to account along with using the weather to your advantage can be a real game changer,

The subject of Camo is never ending,