Survivalist Forum banner

Bullet lead from car batteries ?

24K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  res45  
#1 ·
I was talking to a person last night and the subject of the EPA's recent attempt to ban lead for bullets came up. He said that he knows someone who is stockpiling old used car batteries with the intention of taking the lead from the batteries to melt down and mold bullets with should that ever happen.

I dont know anything about the type of lead used in car batteries so I dont know if this would work or not. Also, you have the environmental and safety issues of dealing with the acid once you cracked the battery open so it is not something that I would recomend, but in a TEOFWAWKI situation might useful.

Anyway, I thought it was "out of the box" thinking so I thought I would share.
 
#27 ·
This is an old iea, but as you noted the acid makes it really a desperate operation, there are also toxins in the acid that make melting the lead even more hazardous than other lead. Your friend would be far better off stockpiling lead from shooting range slavage or even car wheel weights.
Car wheel weights that contain lead have been banned as well it would appear. I went to my local Wallyworld and asked for a couple of old lead wheel weights a few weeks back. Was told they were forced to quit using lead two years ago by the EPA.

And besides they couldn't give or sell me any used ones even if they had any. Bummer, So I went to sporting goods and purchased a few lead fishing sinkers. Not cheap but necessary for my project.

As an aside. Lead from vehicle batteries is very toxic especially when heated. Be really careful when melting.
 
#20 ·
:thumb: ^ What he said. Not worth the hassle, find an alternative. I think they are getting away from lead as wheel weights too.
They are using an increasing ammout wheel weights made from Zinc (Zn) and Iron (Fe) these days. The last batch of wheel weights I sorted was approximately a third Zinc and Iron (unuseable) weights.
 
#4 ·
Don't do it, the hazards outweigh the gain severely.

The lead is the same but the chemicals that are on the lead is severely hazardous.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Bullet alloy contaminants, chemical symbol and sources
Chemical

Possible
Element Symbol

Sources
Antimony* > Sb > Wheel weights, batteries, cable sheathing, Type Metals
Tin* > Sn > Batteries, Wheel Weights, Type metals, Solder
Arsenic* > As > Wheel weights, Lead shot
Iron > Fe > Used type metals
Bismuth > Bi > Cable sheathing
Calcium > Ca > Batteries
Cadmium > Cd > Batteries
Copper > Cu > Batteries
Strontium > Sr > Batteries
*Antimony, tin and arsenic are not contaminants but listed to show their source. Battery lead should be avoided because of the extremely high toxicity of elements such as Strontium. All of the other elements listed in addition to being toxic, cast very poorly, ruin a pot of alloy they are blended with and should be avoided.
 
#6 ·
*Antimony, tin and arsenic are not contaminants but listed to show their source. Battery lead should be avoided because of the extremely high toxicity of elements such as Strontium. All of the other elements listed in addition to being toxic, cast very poorly, ruin a pot of alloy they are blended with and should be avoided.[/I]
antimony is commonly added to lead for cast bullets to allow it to be used at higher fps pure lead is not very good for a cast bullet as its too soft
 
#5 ·
battery lead is really soft use wheel weights they have enough antimony there good for bullets as is as ther a harder lead and you dont have to worry bout chemical burns

go to your firestones or other mechanic places alot of times they have to pay to dispose of the stuff and are happy to give em away for free you can make your rounds once a month to several and come out with a five gallon bucket per month just melt em down and pour into a bar mold for later use i got 600lbs that way and ddnt cost me anything
 
#8 ·
Lead acid batteries are made of two different types of lead which is what drives the chemical process

Pb = lead
PbO2 = lead oxide

the type of plates alternate inside the battery with the odd numbered from either direction (outside plates) being the ones made of lead. There is one more lead plate than lead oxide plate because the lead oxide is more reactive and tends to warp. Keeping a lead plate on either side ensures the plate is not warped in either direction.
 
#9 ·
#14 ·
Fishing weights?? cheap and you can get them at any hardware store.. how about old tires they are balanced with lead...
Fishing weights are pure lead they work great for black powder loads but are a bit soft for anything other than standard 38 special loads or smaller calibers with a similar MV range. The reason you can't use plain base pure lead for higher velocity pistol and rifle rds. is because the pure lead isn't strong enough to withstand the pressure the higher velocity rds. generate without melting the bullet base,unless you use a gas check to protect the base of the bullet,gas check bullets generally don't come into play until you reach MV of 1400 fps. with harder cast bullets or you using a softer alloy that can't withstand the PSI your load is generating but you still want the bullet to expand.

A couple thing you have to take into consideration with cast bullets. First the bullet has to fit the bore of your firearm,you can get by with .001" over the groove to groove dia. but .002" is better some firearms can even handle .003" if they have large or warn throats like some military surplus rifles. The lead alloy bullet will compress/squeeze down easily to fit the bore,over sized copper jacket bullets on the other hand generate more pressure when there over sized because there about 15 times harder than hard cast lead bullets.

Once you know what size bullet you need the second thing you need to know is what alloy your using and what it's hardness/BHN is,this will tell you the Min. PSI required to swell/obturate the base of the bullet so that it seals the bore,without sealing the bore properly you get several things gas cutting around the bullet which causes leading and lower MV because the burning gases escapes around the bullet instead of pushing it forward.

Lyman reloading and Lyman cast bullet manuals tell you what PSI there Min. & Max. loads generate so it's just a matter of taking your bullets BHN multiplying it by 1422 and that will give you the Min. PSI required to obturate the bullets base and seal the bore. Cast bullets with a hardness or BHN of from 10 to 12 rang work perfectly fine for loads around 1200 to 1300 fps no matter what you shoot them in after that point you either need to used a higher BHN bullet or us a gas check.

For my full house 357 Mag. load I shoot a Lee tumble lube flat base cast bullet made from wheel weights and water dropped which doubles the bullets hardness to around 18 BHN MV is around 1400 fps. for my rifle bullets most of which I shoot between 1500 and 2000 fps. I use the same alloy but apply a gas check because the rifle bullet simply get driven faster plus I like to leave my cast hunting bullets relatively soft so the expand to a degree although the flat nose designs I use do a good bit of damage on there own.


Some good sources of lead are tire shops,car dealerships,scrap yards,ebay,Cast Boolits Swapping & Selling section,Plumber,people that work in construction,sailboat keels,shooting ranges just to name a few.

Commercial cast bullet alloys.
http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

For all you guys working with pure lead Rotometals has an alloy called Super Hard http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30_antimony_70_lead.htm using 15 lbs. of pure lead or stick on WW and 2 lbs of Super Hard will get you an air cooled BHN of around 12 after two days setting water quenching or oven heat treating will harden it even more.

Good articles for bullet casters.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm
 
#15 ·
You guys are also missing a great resource...water and sewer pipe...A whole sewer stack will yield 500+ lbs--just a Y connection is around 100 lbs...We dismantled an old 2½ story (3½ bath) house and between the stack and water pipes came out with just over 2,300 lbs (1 tonne) of lead...Yes you have to play around a little bit to get the proper hardness but I can make lots of mistakes and not worry about it much...Then again, you can recover your lead from the backstop/berm and reuse it again.

Shooting targets, then wheel weights are fine but they are far too hard for hunting or for personal defence...Don't expand worth shyte.

Battery lead is usable--if every caution is taken in the recovery and smelting but unless you are on you own farm where do you dispose of the toxic liquids, legally...They are just too damn inconvenient and labour intensive.

Then of course you can always go an buy some from the salvage yards.
 
#19 ·
Actually wheel weight make excellent bullet for target shooting,hunting or SD purposes you just have to choose the right bullet. The traditional SWC design with a nice size meplat will leave a wound channel twice the size of the bullet dia. as well as create a nice shock wave as it passes through tissue this is how cast bullet kill.

There are also quiet few options on HP mold designs now days,one of my favorites is MP Molds http://www.mp-molds.com/ You can also have certain existing mold converted http://www.hollowpointmold.com/ I prefer the standard FN design for rifle hunting bullets and the HP for semi auto pistol and certain revolvers,otherwise I use the SWC.

45 ACP cast from 2:1 WW/Lead BHN around 9
Image


327 Magnum WW BHN 11
Image


45 Cal. Lyman Devastator HP BHN 11
Image
 
#23 ·
There was a long discussion on this in one of the muzzleloading forums. It's a really bad idea because of other heavy metals like cadmium that are present in the lead, along with various chemicals. These offgas when melting. There are just too many other sources of lead to risk your health using battery lead.
 
#28 ·
Most states haven't banned the use of Lead wheel weights yet but it probably want be long it's hard to say. Most large chain stores and tire dealerships have contracts with recyclers to sell they WW many of the small mom and pop tire and recapping shops either have the same setup or have promised the used WW to individuals for a small fee or just give them away.

I get mine for a small car dealership,two small one person owned tire and recapping shops and a couple plumber when there tear out old plumbing. I usually swap cast bullets,fishing sinker or a six pack in return for the WW. After sorting I generally get about 70% usable WW for making bullets,the Zinc weights and steel clips I sell to the recyclers or trade out for pure lead.