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Body Armor

5.3K views 68 replies 41 participants last post by  HappyinID  
#1 ·
The Military, LEO wear body armor and now many of the Cartels and AQ , ISIS types are wearing body armor. Since many of the bad guy types are wearing armor. What's the solution? I don't think it's more body armor.
 
#9 ·
Bill Jordan’s advice! Kind of…
He said the largest, softest target - the belly.
His reasoning included the junk, the bladder,
the p-Elvis, femoral arteries one each side,
the navel area, and the lower intestine.

If you haven’t been kicked in the junk then
you’re missing a treat! And anyone who’s had
a bladder infection, or UTI will tell you that it’s
a picnic as well… I’m sure everyone knows the
pain associated with the burning squirts, and
the momentary hesitation while getting you
and your parts to the nearest relief station.

Then there’s the practical issues of breaking
bones, severing arteries, etc.

Soft body armor will stop bullets, but if they’re
aimed low, the little flap, that some vests have,
will only slow the bullet down to Bruce Lee kick
velocity.

Just my thoughts as I see the subject.
 
#5 ·
Improve your marksmanship, pay close attention to how the target reacts to the initial body shots if you cannot see armor.

Shots to the groin, extremities and neck/head. If you can disable the arms they may not be return effective fire- hitting the legs may help limit the bad guys movement etc. I hear good things about the efficacy of headshots 🤣 🤣
 
#10 ·
As someone who's used ballistic shields extensively I can tell you that it's very difficult to use a handgun with one. Forget about long guns unless the shield is resting on the ground. Then you can shoot over or around it.

The rifle resistant shields are very heavy. The pistol ones are much more manageable but don't stop rifle rounds. Pick your poison
 
#11 ·
As I have aged I have gravitated towards magnified optics.

I am currently using three very similar sets of rifles with:
1. Aimpoints (3x magnifyers avaliable.)
2. 3.5x power green horse shoe Acogs.(VASTLY better than the 4x) with a 509 for the duty rifle and a 507 for the training rifle
3. LPVO'S (also with top mounted dots.)

I find myself using the dots less and less.
 
#60 · (Edited)
As I have aged I have gravitated towards magnified optics.

I am currently using three very similar sets of rifles with:
1. Aimpoints (3x magnifyers avaliable.)
2. 3.5x power green horse shoe Acogs.(VASTLY better than the 4x) with a 509 for the duty rifle and a 507 for the training rifle
3. LPVO'S (also with top mounted dots.)

I find myself using the dots less and less.
I don't understand your #2 statement. Acog's TA11 vs. TA31. the only difference in them is
TA11 3.5x power is eye relief 2.4" & field of view is 28.9ft vs.
TA31 4x power eye relief is 1.5" & field of view is 36.8ft

other wise they are the same scope.

I do not understand this 509 & 507 thing, What is a 509, 507?
 
#16 ·
I think this topic is over thought. In reality most of the people you will encounter, especially now, do not think far enough ahead to wear armor. If they do, 90% of the time they'll be wearing some cheap level II soft vest or something from Wish.com. Standard 55 gr ball will handle that no problem. Speaking of after the ballon, my plan is to send some M2 AP from the .300 Win Mag.
 
#17 ·
Armor is the main reason I have kept a shotgun for home protection for a couple of decades now. Even the lower rated handgun vests will stop most handgun rounds and shotgun rounds. Rifles only make sense, assuming you have time to get to one. And if youre lucky, they arent wearing plates.

Armor or not, if all you have is a handgun, and are at close range, say 7-5 yards and in, then shoot for the head, quickly and repetitively, and keep shooting until they are down. At those distances, you want as fast a stop as possible, and head shots are the only thing thats going to give you that.

Head shots are not all that hard to make up close, even when youre moving and just shooting over top of the gun, "if" you practice them. You need to be doing realistic and reactive things in practice as much as you can, otherwise youre only going to be further behind the curve than you already are.

Learn to shoot quickly, accurately, and in volume. Ammo is a lot cheaper than your life, so use it liberally.

And screw shooting for the pelvis. Even if you hit them right and it does happen to take them down, they are still very likely a grave threat and danger to you.
 
#18 ·
This is a topic that I have kicked around for a while. When I was a LEO we had level IIIA, if memory serves me correctly, soft armor with an additional truma soft plate over the heart area. They were rated 44 mag and below, but actually were a little better than the 44 mag rating. We tested older ones on the range. They were changed out every three years or so. Department policy required patrol officers to wear them on duty. I would say 90% plus wore them.

Anyway, I got out of the service in 1993 and we were still using a FLAK vest at that time. They were rated for grenades. So my overall experience with armor is dated.

If I knew I was going into a shooting situation it would be ideal. The problem I have with it as part of survival is I am close to 54 years old now and I try to stay in shape, but I don't have the stamina and health that I did in my 20s and 30s. I am not convinced the extra weight in a bug out situation is better served with armor opposed to more food, ammo, water, and etc.

I guess if I bugged in and I used it around the "Alamo" it would be practical. Other than that usage I don't feel it is necessary.

Not flaming anyone wanting it as part of their preps, but it isn't on the top of my priorities.
 
#21 ·
This is a topic that I have kicked around for a while. When I was a LEO we had level IIIA, if memory serves me correctly, soft armor with an additional truma soft plate over the heart area. They were rated 44 mag and below, but actually were a little better than the 44 mag rating. We tested older ones on the range. They were changed out every three years or so. Department policy required patrol officers to wear them on duty. I would say 90% plus wore them.

Anyway, I got out of the service in 1993 and we were still using a FLAK vest at that time. They were rated for grenades. So my overall experience with armor is dated.

If I knew I was going into a shooting situation it would be ideal. The problem I have with it as part of survival is I am close to 54 years old now and I try to stay in shape, but I don't have the stamina and health that I did in my 20s and 30s. I am not convinced the extra weight in a bug out situation is better served with armor opposed to more food, ammo, water, and etc.

I guess if I bugged in and I used it around the "Alamo" it would be practical. Other than that usage I don't feel it is necessary.

Not flaming anyone wanting it as part of their preps, but it isn't on the top of my priorities.
My thoughts exactly, at the Alamo sure and certain other situations. It's a nice to have but not necessarily a need to have for 99% of scenarios. Situational awareness and avoidance is best policy. If the fight ever comes to one's castle or elsewhere. Fight dirty and mean.
 
#25 ·
It's too hot where I am for armor half the year. I don't know how cops do it. My wife and I have soft armor and I have some older, heavy plates. At my age the choice would be wearing plates... or standing up. ;)
 
#37 ·
Something to think about that this fella didn't mention, if a home owner was home and had started shooting at these BG's, do you think they would stick around? Even though they all had high cap mags, I doubt any of them would ever get through a full mag if someone was home returning fire. Hell I'd bet over half of them wouldn't even fire a shot. These kind of guys are in a much different state of mind compared to military clearing a structure. Motives are completely different. These BG's are in there with the mindset to not get caught, they know they are in the wrong. Last thing they want is to be killed in the wrong. Their flight instinct in a shootout will be through the roof. Guns are loud and bring attention from outside factors. BG's don't like attention.

So I get where ol boy is coming from as a new wave of criminals are more educated, but the motive and mindset is still the same. They're are not there with the self goal of clearing the house. They are there to hopefully ambush someone without firing a shot. If one disagrees with me, please tell me when you have ever seen military or LE clear a building by pitching a tent and a campfire in the middle of a living room....
 
#29 ·
Will brings up a good point with the shield. When you use equipment like shields you need to remember officers are working within teams. The same can be said with a lot of military arms and equipment.

As an individual or working with family, friends, and possibly neighbors I doubt there is a lot of team work training using specific types or equipment.

Things like ballistic shields are not going to be that useful. Now if you are using it at a stationary location, such as a residential area, why not use a steel barrier that would be cheaper? Just a thought. Do what you want and buy what you want. I just think my money can be better served on other resources.
 
#30 ·
Will brings up a good point with the shield. When you use equipment like shields you need to remember officers are working within teams. The same can be said with a lot of military arms and equipment.

As an individual or working with family, friends, and possibly neighbors I doubt there is a lot of team work training using specific types or equipment.

Things like ballistic shields are not going to be that useful. Now if you are using it at a stationary location, such as a residential area, why not use a steel barrier that would be cheaper? Just a thought. Do what you want and buy what you want. I just think my money can be better served on other resources.
Good question. An AR500 shield would be too heavy. The 20 pound shield could be easily re-positioned. Whether at home or even in a vehicle I can see it working for me. I am at the thinking about body armor versus shields versus fortifications at this point in time in the scheme of things. As in most everything, there is a cost-benefit analysis 🤔
Body armor leaves many vulnerable areas and is uncomfortable.
Regardless this process will take some time. I am in no hurry as that shield I currently favor is spendy.
I will say rhetorically, that I have noticed that ballistic shields are regularly deployed for some reason despite the downsides. So there is that.