I will happily switch over to black powder (pounds of powder and pelletized powder as well as hundreds of projectiles and tens of thousands of 209 primers) but don’t plan on touching it until my 50,000 primers and hundred of pounds of smokeless powder is used up. Arrows are nice but I like crossbows better. Repair equipment and spare parts are a necessity.

 

With all due respect I too have enough smokeless and reloading gear to last for a long time, however, I also suggested the BP because you can collect the materials to make BP yourself if you had to. Much later down the road, of if your other ammo was confiscated.

 

I would much rather have a sturdy and reliable modern .22 rifle and 10,000 rounds of ammo for small game and for defense a Beretta 92, a dozen mags and 5000 rounds for it.

 

now the advantage of black powder is the extended season,, later it might be the sound of your shot will seem to be from farther away and might throw off others as to how far away you were when you shot ,,

 

99% (internet estimate) of people can't do that anyway.

 

If I ever got to that point of "running out of ammo", there would be nothing left to shoot...

Seriously....I can just buy more ammo, or I can buy the stuff I need to use BP. One of those is easier and more efficient and effective than the other.

As for needing less of the powder due to "making powder"....one could argue the same for the balls, and one could use a flintlock and avoid needing primers. So....meh.

 

Instead of stacking primers that can very finicky if not stored in a humidity controlled environment use a flint lock.

 

this seems like a reasonable path. to me, if you need percussion caps or primers, well - then what advantage is there in BP. I can just load .357 or .38 Special with BP, and off I go. or I can load them with smokeless.

 

I have a .50 black powder rifle because they are fun to shoot. Other than that I don't count it high on my prep level.

 

The only reason to have a black powder gun is because all other firearms and ammunition are illegal or unavailable. Or because they are fun and you like to exploit the primitive weapons special hunting season.

 

I just got started shooting black powder guns. I have a 54 cal Hawken, 12 ga double shotgun, and a Ruger 44 cal Old Army. Figured I would learn how they work, and see how effective they are before deciding yes/no for survival.

If I decide no, I can always sell them, and buy another 50,000 rds of 22 LR.

Same logic for my fishing gear, recurve bow, and my steel traps. I plan to keep these.

 

The rifles are very effective for big game hunting. Your 54 will handily take deer out to 100 yards with a round ball and elk the same with a bullet (I like maxi balls). The revolvers don't have the ballistics of modern firearms, but you could easily use a bullet rather than a ball in the Ruger and level up the firepower pretty good. I am still on the hunt for a BP shotgun, so I can't comment.

They are tons of fun to shoot and I can make everything necessary to shoot them, so I am happy to fool with BP arms. The deer I have shot with 54 and 58 round balls were as dead as the ones i have shot with modern cartridges.

 

I have 4 BP rifles and 3 BP handguns. I enjoy shooting them and have killed deer and elk with the rifles. I don't depend on them for survival but I could if I had to. I have around 8,000 caps on hand and 30+ pounds of powder plus dead soft lead and bullet molds.

 

I have a Savage ML-II muzzleloader, but have only every shot smokeless powder out of it. They are not sold any longer, but a great ML. I could use black powder in it, but resist as it does not make sense to do so right now. I would really like a couple black powder/percussion cap revolvers and perused them on sites, but have not yet bought. There is certainly a benefit in having BP firearms in your arsenal.

 

Seems to me that our not so far off ancestors fed, clothed and protected the home with black powder firearms just fine. They were doing this a lot longer than we have today with smokeless firearms. Don't discount the effectiveness of black powder firearms. If you do your part they will certainly and reliably put food on your table.

 

Any of us with a 10-22 and a brick of ammo, would likely do better.....

 

Not saying it's totally stupid, but you'd be far better off stocking up on modern reloading components. I can cast modern rifle bullets, and even make semi reliable primers in a pinch. I'd far rather have a modern platform. BP is a hobby from the past, for a reason.

 

Maybe a crossbow- seems like a good middle ground between a longbow and a BP muzzle loader

 

Prep-wise, I'd rather invest the money and time required for blackpowder riflery into things I'm more likely to need more immediately. I'm more likely to die of things that can't be solved by firepower than I am running out of ammo.

 

While there is some good humor in this video I think it can show what these rifles are capable of:

 

While there is some good humor in this video I think it can show what these rifles are capable of:

I made a Texas heart shot on a 100 pound deer at 65 yards a few years ago with a 54 round ball, not a very ballistically efficient projectile, over 110 grains of powder. The bullet broke the femur and traveled the length of the animal, lodging in the opposite side shoulder. Any kind of bullet or something like a 58 minie would have exited and continued on to parts unknown.

 

This is exactly why I am jealous of the flintlock people. They do not even need the primers.

There are already lots of people making their own black powder. In a SHTF situation, I can see them being in great demand....with no primers.

As for me... the .22 rimfire family is my hedge. LR, CB caps, shorts, longs, you name it.
I can carry 200 rounds in a small wide mouthed juice bottle.

 

Here is a thought. Get a modern gun that was originally bp. Things like 44 mag and 45/70. Use as intended now and with bp if necessary. With that said, modern smokeless powder is way easier to get than bp.

 

This guy above! My 45/70 is my black powder capable gun. It's also a rifle and a shotgun.

 

Our ancestors had way more game and way more land to hunt. Daniel boone once killed 91 blackbears in a single longhunt and that didnt even account for the other game he took- they'd kill hundreds of "red" deer in the summer- it was common to kill double digit deer on the daily and we aren't even talking about trapping. Long hunters usually found slaves were neccessary just to process the sheer amount of hides at camp- multiple laborers would be working from sun up to sundown just trying to keep up with the amount of hides brought in.

Totally different world- there were still plentiful bison in kentucky and Eastern elk certainly werent extinct ye among other things.

All that being said, BP guns were effective, they could be loaded like shotguns for small game and loaded quite potently for large game.

Merriwether Lewis was known to hit targets beyond 200yards resting his flintlock on his espontoon and many other prolific names from the Era could shoot even furthur. Many times the Lewis and Clark expedition was saved by drouillard who would walk out of camp and bag a dozen deer on command. At the same time, it's important to remember that the corps of discovery came close to starvation a few times and was sustained only by trading with the Indians for things like roots and dog meat.

Yes, BP guns were/are effective for hunting- but the same effective ranges no longer nets the same output due to the circumstances of how modern society has changed the natural world. you cannot expect to be successful like our ancestors generations using the same type of kit and tactics in the world we live in today.

I've done alot of research on this subject and I am wholly convinced that it was much, much easier to hunt in their time even with their limited weaponry than it is today. Now there is way more competition squeezed into much smaller parcels of land with much lower (talking more species than just whitetail btw) game numbers.

I don't think it's honest to just simply say BP guns worked for our ancestors so they will work for us... different world, different skillets, different time. Can you kill with em? Of course- are they are good choice by today's standards? No.

I cannot think of any realistic scenario where blackpowder specifically outshines modern weapons except for adhering to legal hunting regulations and beating out archery equipment in effectiveness before rifle season starts. Im open to suggestions though.

It's my opinion that guns are finite systems- they require heavy stores of supplies to keep functioning whether it's for ammunition or maintenance. This means they are limited in total mobility by weight. So, you have to either have a base, a cache or some method of storing/manufacturing ammo and components and such. that is an equal limitation on modern firearms in which case modern firearms obviously win out against BP guns in effectiveness/reliability.

The argument for making blackpowder makes very little sense to me given the required time/tools/space required- its not an in-field, on the fly skill, there is still a requirement for stationary stores and materials in which case why not just stick to higher performing modern guns/components?

 

Black powder rifle, check. Bullets, check. Primers, check. Powder, check.

Al

 

I think i'll stick with a bow and a Shepard's sling if I run out of ammo. The sling has a virtually infinite amount of ammo available.

 

I get what you mean about a bow and sling. While good for David it won’t do much good against a modern lever action in 45/70. Bp or not the accuracy is typically better today and 150 yard plus is not uncommon. Very tough for a sling.

 

black powder is cool but a messy PITA to clean up... you have to clean up the right after shooting and can't just let it wait like with smokeless powder

 

I find them relatively easy to clean. Soapy warm water with some scrubbing then oil. Not too hard. If I'm shooting on multiple days I will swab out my barrels a few times during the day with water and some tow or whatever you choose to use. You will probably need to do this anyway to keep shooting due to normal fouling. In the evening I take off the lock and wash it quickly and re-oil. Once I get home I give them a good washing and oil with no negative results. This has worked for many years for me without rust or any pitting. You are right though that it does need to be addressed unlike smokeless firearms that you can get by without cleaning them.

 

Seems to me that our not so far off ancestors fed, clothed and protected the home with black powder firearms just fine. They were doing this a lot longer than we have today with smokeless firearms. Don't discount the effectiveness of black powder firearms. If you do your part they will certainly and reliably put food on your table.

Seems to me that our not so far off ancestors almost IMMEDIATELY adopted cased ammo and smokeless powder as soon as it was available. The guns that "won the west" may have started as BP guns, but they weren't front stuffers, they used cased ammo and primers.

Also....when people were busy protecting their homes with BP guns, the people they were dealing with were also limited to BP weapons.
When they were feeding their families, game was everywhere, population was FAR less, and hunting seasons weren't a thing.
It simply doesn't compare.

Nowadays....that's not how things are. So if we call BP an ineffective weapon in the SD and HD scenario.....we don't mean it won't destroy one target effectively.
We just mean there are FAR better ways to deal with multiple targets, in any weather, at greater ranges, with more accuracy.

this seems like a reasonable path. to me, if you need percussion caps or primers, well - then what advantage is there in BP. I can just load .357 or .38 Special with BP, and off I go. or I can load them with smokeless.

Exactly.

 

Some of the weaknesses of BP weapons can only be recognized by using them in the field, and by studying historical events where these weaknesses were decisive.

BP absorbes moisture and this greatly impacts ignition and burn rate. The Confederate Army lost an important civil war battle here in Oklahoma, because they had just crossed the Arkansas River, and consequently their cannons would not fire.

BP produces tons of smoke and makes you even more visible. Snipers using BP are easy to spot.

BP produces tons of fouling which limits rate of fire, and amount of rounds fired before cleaning the weapon. Very few repeating weapons have ever been developed that used BP. Basically just revolvers.

I have not seen or heard of using a suppressor on a BP weapon. I suspect this is due to both the smoke and the fouling issue.

 

BP produces tons of smoke and makes you even more visible. Snipers using BP are easy to spot.

That was one of the complaints by the Americans in the Spanish-American war. The smoke from the American rifles was giving away their position while the Spanish were armed with the new Mauser 7X57 smokeless powder rifles and could shoot at the Americans without giving away where they were. IIRC the Americans were armed with the new Krag rifles and some were armed with old 45-70 Trap Door Springfields firing BP rounds.

 

Some of the weaknesses of BP weapons can only be recognized by using them in the field, and by studying historical events where these weaknesses were decisive.

BP absorbes moisture and this greatly impacts ignition and burn rate.

My dad found out the hard way, hunting elk. Didn't discharge his gun in the evening after the first day, went hunting the next morning, got on an elk...click/fizz. The powder had absorbed too much moisture over night.

BP produces tons of fouling which limits rate of fire, and amount of rounds fired before cleaning the weapon. Very few repeating weapons have ever been developed that used BP. Basically just revolvers.

The Maxim and Madsen guns were designed and originally ran on BP ammo, IIRC. But you are right, only a few.

The old hand crankers like the Gatling or Agar gun used BP ammo, but that's different, as you again point out.

 

My dad found out the hard way, hunting elk. Didn't discharge his gun in the evening after the first day, went hunting the next morning, got on an elk...click/fizz. The powder had absorbed too much moisture over night.




The Maxim and Madsen guns were designed and originally ran on BP ammo, IIRC. But you are right, only a few.

The old hand crankers like the Gatling or Agar gun used BP ammo, but that's different, as you again point out.

I had the same deer hunting. At dark on day 2 or 3. Using years old bp pellets. They all kinda ignited. Mine pent “Pooooont” and I saw three flaming circles make their way out to 30 yards before going out. Deer obviously took off.