Interesting thought. As someone who grew up in the oil industry in Texas, I can tell you that you would need a VERY large tank (petroleum tank farm huge) to store enough to keep your house running and to make a difference. I don't know the math, but the volume of gas would take up more room than you might have on your property and cost far more than those CNG tanks and the associated technology to compress and un-compress the natural gas.

 

Propane or kerosene backup would be a more practical option. The expense of a compressor, tanks, and setup would be huge. You might only get a few hrs. of use from a vehicle tank.

 

I'm not as qualified as you are but here are my thoughts. It depends how the gas company supplies the product, liquid state or gas state. That's the one beauty of propane is that its supplied in liquid state so you can store a lot of gas inside a small volume of liquid. Now if natural gas is in liquid state , why not bury (or keep it above ground)a propane tank. I would install a shut off valve after the meter since everything after it you paid for.
I hope this made any sense and helps.

 

I think your best bet would be a propane tank and a few ventless heaters.

Our old house used oil heat, however it required electricity. Since we lost power a bit, we installed one of those ventless heaters. When the power went out we could keep the house warn.

 

Natural gas is sent down the pipe at a relatively low pressure. This means you'd need a gigantic tank unless you compressed it. Which would require a powerful and expensive compressor designed specifically for the job. I guess in theory you could compress it yourself and turn it into liquid. But I think it would take an engineer to figure out a system for doing so. Probably not worth the effort and expense.

Better to just have alternate backups such as propane or kerosene.

 

I thought that the auto tanks stored CNG at A high pressure, and that a regulator would be all that was needed to "un-compress" it down to a suitable house pipe pressure. Sort of like a welding/ cutting torch set up takes from a high pressure cylinder 2 or 3 k lbs and spits it out the tip at a reasonable pressure like 40 to 60 lbs.
A couple day supply is all I was looking for, but I honestly have no idea how much the car tanks hold in cubic feet, or at what pressure, or state of gas or liquid.

Thanks for the replies.

 

The compressors I've seen are $2,000 or $3,000. The pickups equiped with several tanks have less than 100 mi. range if I remember right. I don't know what that would translate to hrs. for a furnace. Probably not very many. There wouldn't be a problem using the CNG, it's just getting the gas compressed and stored.
I think you would be $ ahead by using another source of alternative heat.

 

Wood gas gasifier. FEMA shelled out for plans for a home-brew job back in the 1970s and you can download the plans from www.scribd.com/ just for opening accounts with them. It is even jetted pretty close to natural gas....

 

How Long Until Gas System Shutdown?

...a little off topic, but loosely related.

In a SHTF situation where Electric Service is lost, how many days until I lose natural gas service or the pressure is too low?

I guess I'm asking how long my provider can continue without power and without fuel resupply for emergency generators?

Thanks in advance.

 

...a little off topic, but loosely related.

In a SHTF situation where Electric Service is lost, how many days until I lose natural gas service or the pressure is too low?

I guess I'm asking how long my provider can continue without power and without fuel resupply for emergency generators?

Thanks in advance.

In our area, during a major ice storm when grid was down, the N. gas compressor stations went down at the same time. They have electric controls and no generators to provide power that I'm aware of.

 

Check your meter one day and then re-check in 24 hrs the change in numbers is your cubic feet used. Some one may know how many cubic feet of gas your container may hold. that would tell if it is even worth looking into it more...

Your meter numbers are a little odd some go clock wise some counter so look it over. Even look at your monthly bill, it will say how many cubic ft. that month...

 

I'd feel a WHOLE LOT BETTER about your safety and freedom to hear you say, "Eh, I think I'll just get a decent generator and some ceramic radiant heaters for the important rooms in my home."

Take the safe route, bud. Consider.... you'll be doing some of the transfer and loading in VERY COLD conditions, where materials act differently than normal.

Take the safe route. Live a while longer and keep posting.

 

Gas Co.'s Don't Use Natural gas to power Backup Generator Sets?

When writing my question, I thought it might be absurd because the Natural gas provider could power their backup generators using natural gas?

For a moment, maybe I was applying too much logic?

I'm just trying to figure out how long I have to move the wood stove from the workshop into the house and install it?

 

When writing my question, I thought it might be absurd because the Natural gas provider could power their backup generators using natural gas?

For a moment, maybe I was applying too much logic?

I'm just trying to figure out how long I have to move the wood stove from the workshop into the house and install it?

You would think that the Gas Co would have natural gas generators so they could keep the lines up an running! I think they need to take lessons from us and start prepping

 

I have natural gas and I have a propane back up. I picked up a few of the wall mounted propane heaters for cheap ($30 bucks max) and plumbed them for grill bottles. Its Easy and cheap and portable.

 

Maybe I don't understand, but I don't see why a propane tank could not be used. People in rural areas use propane tanks all the time and they aren't huge:

As for LNG, generally, how LNG works is there is a 'vaporizer' setup that warms up the liquid so it can be burnt as a vapor. This isn't rocket science and doesn't require a compressor.

All a person probably needs is enough propane to keep the house warm until the gas company turns the gas back on. This may be a few days to a week.

But yes, it would probably be simpler and cheaper to either get a few catalytic heaters and propane bottles. Or to use electricity and a portable heater, ideally you would have a genset - if for no other reason than if the power goes out your furnace fan won't have power and you won't get much heat from it (if it even allows the burner to operate without power to the fan, which I am betting it wouldn't).

As for power going out causing the gas to stop - it might, it might not. Where I live we have windstorms and ice storms that interrupt power for some areas. You power may go out but the gas company still has plenty of power. A total system wide outage for a large area is rare and usually short lived.

 

As for LNG, generally, how LNG works is there is a 'vaporizer' setup that warms up the liquid so it can be burnt as a vapor. This isn't rocket science and doesn't require a compressor.

It does to turn the gas into a liquid to start with, which is what's stored in the tank. Once you have the liquid gas, it's simple from there. To store a backup supply of gas from the gas line would either require one gigantic low pressure tank, or a compressor to turn it into a liquid.

 

I have a gas well and compress natural gas for my car. The compressor cost me almost $3,000 ten years ago. Prices never go down! I calculated the gas in one of my tanks, at 3000 psig it has about 550 SCF or around 550,000 BTU's. It's possable that one tank might last for a day or more on your furnace, but it is not practical (tanks are also expensive).

100 pound propane tank around here costs about $50.00 anouther $80.00 to fill, and it never goes bad. I think 1 pound of propane has about 22,000 btu's, thats over 2,000,000 btu's per 100 pound tank. Buy a couple tanks and heaters made to used inside your house ( vent less heaters as suggested above). You do want to keep the danger of that 100 pound tank in your house in mind.

I keep 6 of them filled just in case (even with the gas well).

 

I have extra Propane tanks that I keep full already.

I guess I will just get a propane heater or two and a couple of electric ones also.


Thanks to all for the info.

 

I was wondering if it would be possible to nab a CNG automobile conversion tank from a junk yard and plumb it temporarily to your house, either through the gas company regulator or your own regulator.
You could transport and fill them yourself in this case if it was more than a few days at one of the car CNG stations.

I must be smoking crack again because I am reading that the OP would be filling the tanks elsewhere and NOT from his house supply.

You can look into the BTU values for CNG and see how long a tank would last you based on your usage. STP CNG has 900 btu/cubic foot. Compress it to 2400 PSI and you have somewhere near 200,000 BTU. How big are those car tanks?

When I lived in L.A., we had some gas line work we did. IIRC, the pressure was measured in inches of water. Which is really low. So, you'd have to regulate your cylinder down to whatever the pressure of the system is. As far as plumbing it, there isn't a beginning and end for a house gas system. Anywhere you tie in on your side of the gas company meter, the gas is going to get to where it needs to go.

All that said, I don't think it's a worthwhile idea. :

 

The intention was to fill the tank(s) elsewhere. We have 3 cng "gas stations" in town that I know of. Not a long term, or shtf back-up by any means. The thought was that it looked simple enough to hook up the plumbing, if I had a tank on hand and the fittings in place, I could hook it up in a few minutes with minimal interruption.

I will still look in to the capacity and working pressures of the auto tanks. These things were real popular a number of years ago because of a tax break associated with the conversions. There is an auto shop across the street from my work that has had pallets of tanks sitting in storage ever since the tax break expired, maybe he just wants to see them go by now.
I will also check my bills for January and February, as it will give me a good idea of our peak usage in cubic feet. I only use the gas for furnace and hot water, everything else is electric right now.
I get that it will probably not be worthwhile, if it was, I imagine many people would be doing it already.

Thanks for the info.

 

cool beans man

 

My house has natural gas for heating, cooking, and hot water. When it is very cold, below zero, we use about ten "therms" per day. As I understand it, a therm is about equal to a gallon of gasoline in energy content. Therefore, if I had an automobile CNG tank that held 10 gge (gasoline gallon equivalents) it should support my house full blast on a very cold day.

If the gas service quit, though, I would scale back and maybe just run a small heater. Perhaps 10 gge would last 10 days.

And a 10 gge tank should be easy to transport to the fueling station for a fill up.

One additional thought: If the tank was connected to the household gas line your gas pressure might feed the line and not just your house. So you would need a valve to prevent that.

(Disclaimer -- I'm not an expert in this!)

 

I am fortunately in a place where LP is used. There are Nat Gas lines in the area but I didnt want it. I feel better with a 1000 gal LP tank as it last around a year or so with regular useage. I like the fact that I can have a year or more of LP on hand so I dont have to worry if the gasline is producing. I have known people over the years that have LP tanks in the city were everyone uses Nat Gas because of that reason.

I was told by the LP supplier that the average household around here uses 5 gals of LP a day when it is below zero. I think that is alittle high myself but that is what I was told.

1000 gal tanks hold 800 gals of LP as they will not fill over 80%. I was thrilled last week when I was just above 30% usually in past years we were at under 20% by this time of year. We turned the thremostat down some and burned alot of wood this year.I am hoping to have over 10 % when I fill up this summer.

I do keep a 100#(25gals) cylinder around for just in case ,I just filled it for $56 and usually buy LP in the summer for around a dollar a gal. We also have ventless LP 30,000 btu heater in case of no power even though we have a generator. Then I keep 3 20# tanks around also and 20 gals of kerosene and a pile of wood...................... This summer it is time for a new furnace as mine is 20 yrs old so hopefully a new one will be more efficient.

 

You mean they choose who got heat and who didnt? Hope they had a list of the consumers in that area. If someone had shut off some little old ladies gas and she,,well you get the point.

 

Enron already proved that grandma Millie is expendable.

 

Cleat are you refering to my post? Nat gas was not available in our area until like 10 years ago and before that everyone used LP,electric, wood or heating oil.

When they ran the Nat Gas lines you had a choice usually if you wanted it. For most folks it was free to run the line to your house . But some of us dont live close to others and in my case the hill I live on has alot of rocks so the Nat Gas company wanted a fee to run a line to my house. I declined.

 

I figured it would be a no-no to mess with the line up to the regulator.

I took a peak through the fence at the auto shop today, there were 2 tanks designed to fit in the spare tire area of a pick-up truck, looks like they bolted up using the hitch mounting holes. They looked like spun fiberglass tanks. They did not list a capacity, but working pressure was 2800 psi. Similar pressure rating as some scuba tanks. I had a spun fiberglass air tank for my paintball marker that was 5000 psi. If the cost of that paintball tank would be scaled up to the size of two of these, that would be one helluva deal breaker. They would probably cost a couple thousand.

From what I heard from my co-worker, the news, and other people in that neighborhood, every house in those particular subdivisions got turned off. I don't know how they could have had knowledge of every old, young, or frail person living there.

 

From what I heard from my co-worker, the news, and other people in that neighborhood, every house in those particular subdivisions got turned off. I don't know how they could have had knowledge of every old, young, or frail person living there.

In some locales, people with 'hardship' conditions can register with utilities to be placed on a priority list. For example, an electric company usually cannot shut off your power overnight for non-payment if you told them you have a heart-lung machine running to keep your grandma alive - or something like that.

 

Portable electric and kerosene heaters are handy to keep around for emergencies.