I'm with you T1 ought to be better. Personally I consider armor a waste of resources if you are on foot.

 

Evac a city and see if you can say that.


Mission drives gear.

 

AR 500 with LineX spray are a cheap option and are level 3. Check out ar500armor.com

 

MIL–A 46177

That's if you want armor plating. Current armor is usually a composite polymer/ceramic.

 

You mean prison armor made of magazines and newspaper is not "in" anymore? haha

 

ok, I'll bite... the material thickness for this AR500.......(according to the link.... they use 1/4 inch...) If it is truely AR plate... the material designation is a grade of abraision reistant, not a specific dimension. It is a similar material commonly used to reline heavy equipment wear surfaces in our shop.... most times we use a AR400 series. consider their 1/4" steel as minimum at 10.2 lbs/sq ft.... then consider that my .30-06 will penetrate 3/4 mild steel at 175 yards easily... and this is 30 pounds per sq foot.... at 1 sq foot front and rear of your chest (probable killzone for a handgun/high powered rifle)... thats 20 to 60 lbs to get a modest level of protection from an average handgun or rifle in the US with mild steel? I know AR and mild steels are different... but this much difference in penetration? I think I see a range test in the future....might be a little while till we do a job with leftovers... but the next job we do with a few scraps left over is going to be poked and prodded with various calibers...... here goes some ammo testing.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_vest

Level IV will stop an AP round from an -06.

Single plate good for pistols and a 7.62 NATO Level III

http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-trauma-plate-advanced-shooters-cut-asc-10x12.html#.Ur-0I7WA1jo

 

Mild steel aint AR500....there is a vast difference between ordinary mild steel and AR500 both in hardness and in toughness. AR500 might not be as tough as some of the mill spec HHA alloys but its miles above ordinary mild steel. Personally I wouldnt want any steel body armour without some kind of spall and splatter capture preferably resin/glass composite. Bed liner might be decent ( and cheap ) for splatter but glass/resin would perform better.

 

I am most aware of the common differences between AR plate and mild steel.... my question, the material listed on the link is 1/4 inch thick?.... that is worthy of a test in my eyes.... we get AR400 and occasionally AR500 at work, sometimes up to 1 inch thick... and for years we have discarded the scraps.... if this testing proves out I will stop throwing it away...

 

Most 1/4" ar500 plates are claimed to be level III equivalent but are not always tested since that increases plate cost (the whole point of ar500 plates=cheap). They may or may not stop semi ap style rounds like m855/ss109 or the 7.62x39 equivalent. Stuff like that is usually claimed as the unofficial NIJ lII+. Keep in mind that AR 500 specs actually allow a hardness between 450 and 550 so that can account for some variability in protection.
IIRC there was a video in the MAC channel on youtube where they tested a bedliner coated plate vs various calibres and they actually had a plug ( spall ) shot out of the backface after some hits of 7.62 nato ( dont ask me bullet type ). Which is one of the reasons why I'd be much more comfortable wearing one if they fiberglassed the backface.
Depending on how your scrap is cut and the dimensions of them can also affect performance. Id expect less changes on waterjet cut stuff vs plasma cut. Edges of armor plates are always weaker.

 

I have been fairly objective in all testing.... recently we tested a collection of 1/2 inch polycarb... sheeting... the material was sold to our customer as "basically bullet proof"... I was tasked with the testing... their need was for a series of guards in their test facility to resist flying debris in the event of a tested part breaking under their required loads... 50-100,000 lbs.... we used 12" squares for our test... they were planning to use 24" x 72" pcs.

the results?.... at 30 feet
.22 lr penetrated partially but stopped in the surface
.32 acp bounced off (factory 60 gn jhp)
.380 acp bounced off
.45 acp bounce off ( factory 230 gn fmj)
.357 complete pass thru with ease (handloaded 140 gn swc with 14.7 grains of 2400)
#6 12 guage bounced off (2 3/4 " factory)
00 buck and 1 oz slugs... both complete pass thru ( 2 3/4 inch factory)


I will attempt to test the plate in the same manner when the time comes ( probably spring time).... but will add a .270, 30-06, 300 winmag, 454 casull ( 45 long colt as well)... maybe even the .50 muzzleloader with the steel core penetrators....

 

http://www.professionalplastics.com/MICARTABRASS

 

For an expedient armor platting you can use the lid off of a toilet tank. Cut to size, wrap in duct tape. for added safety place a piece of thick rubber (cut a chunk of spare tire off) and secure with the tape. The porcelain will absorb one maybe two rifle rounds. The shattering will be absorbed by the piece of tire.

Is it ghetto? Yup. Does it sound ridiculous? Yup. Will it work in a jam if nothing else is present and you need protection? Surprisingly . . . Yes.

 

NICE SHOT... rediculous or not... if your in a bind and it works?

 

Cheapest portable option is solid UHMW. 1.5" is roughly level 3, and is cheaper than AR500 plate by a good margin and also somewhat lighter per surface area.

 

UHMW PE?
1/4 " Steel is ~ 4.8 gram per square cm.
1.5" PE is ~ 3.8 gram per square cm.
What I would find interesting for testing is 1/8" AR500 and 1" UHMWPE glued together and 3/16" steel + 1/2"PE.
Same weight budget 3 different defeat mechanisms used in tandem. 1/8" steel might not be thick enough to get any significant benefit from that layer, thats why testing is half the fun.

 

Not bad pricing here on uhmw....
Http://www.usplastic.com/mobile/item.aspx?itemid=23911&categoryid=868

 

UHMW is extremely tough, with significant wear properties.... tho I had never considered its use against hi velocity penetrations... anyone try this out?

 

Its UHMWPE. Ultra high molecular weight poly ethylene. Polyethylene is the polymer of which the average chain weight ( and thus length) is in the Millions of units, which is what gives its specific properties for an otherwise very simple polymer. They are used in some commercial level III plates and vehicle spall liners. Those are probably a different grade than what we buy as UHMWPE plate.
/pedantic organic chemist mode off.

 

The only difference for personal armor is it is usually woven, this increases performance a lot at the expense of cost.

I've personally shot "industrial grade" 1.5" UHMW blocks with an SS109 and gotten a stop. All I did was bake it overnight and allow it to slowly cool to work out any stresses.

 

Growing Nylon 6/6 in the lab was one of my favorite organic chemistry experiments, such cute little white fibers.

 

I never realized the stuff was "grown" in a lab.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVAnU8SabY

 

Not sure why people are trying to go cheap with AR500 plates or other homemade body armor things.

Seriously, a toilet lid? Post a video or it stopping a .30-06 round or 2 as you say "it should" and then I won't consider your post a joke.

Visit Midwest armor's website, search the net for a coupon code and you will get 2 level IV stand alone ceramic plates for $250 plus shipping. There is test vids on these plates and they perform exceptionally well for the price point. They will stop multiple rifle and pistol rounds.

 

Because that's still out of the price range for some people ? Because we love talking about ideas, even if not all of them are "practical" ?

 

You have to be kidding right? You like talking about strapping toilet bowl lids to your chest because you cannot afford $125 for a real bullet proof ceramic plate?

I don't mind talking about ideas and different things you've tested or tried; but unless you are getting scraps of AR plate for free or this plastic people are talking about you will have more invested into your experiements than I will have into my true piece of kit that I know will work.

Honestly $125 a plate + shipping direct to your door, no running around, nottime wasted, no massive chest wounds from naively thinking a toilet lids will stop Bubba's rifle bullet...in my humble opinion that is highly affordable.

I have real plates and proper kevlar vests for both me and my wife. The first one I bought there was a learning curve...over $500 invested for everything. The next one a little over $300 and I know they will work for what they are rated for.

 

Just got my level 4 ceramic plate from www.bulletproofme.com ...I cannot say enough about the great products and service they have....Happy customer here....:thumb:

 

You will note that I was not the one talking about toilet lids and I did make a comment about some not very practical ideas. AR500 is practical even if on the heavy side and usually limited to level III equivalent. UMHWPE is similar ..level III equivalent roughly for the mentioned thickness, lower weight than steel but you trade some comfort ( thickness) for protection.

 

I was speaking in generalities...the toilet lid was mentioned in the thread as unconvential bulletproof material.

How much does the AR plate and the plastic cost? Are they considerably cheaper than the midwest armor standalone level IV plates?

 

when I started this question initially, I was not particularily interested for a primary vest myself... more of a idea for plating strategic points... whether in a BOV or BOL.... however all the discussion has been very informative imo.... I can and do at different times have access to some of the materials mentioned and was curious if anyone had knowledge of their usefulness....

I would agree, if you can afford a vest and feel you have the need?... then by all means... buy one.... however some may need an expediant protection sometime... maybe some of the ideas presented may help. carry on.

 

If you wanted to armor strategic points in a BOL the cheapest and best way is sand bags or some type of earth material. For a vehicle you could put up some AR plate, but it will get really heavy, really fast. You better start with a 1 ton truck.