Ammo will be the most valuable item if thier is a major SHTF situation with looters/gangs running the streets, so I don't see ammo being easy to get.

I believe you are right, it will be the ammo you have in your possesion at the time of SHTF. If trying to buy/trade ammo it will be expensive and you would run the risk of being ripped off or shot.

 

The only advantage is if you are the first one on a scene where things have gone bad, and you collect the remains of whats left. Coincidentally its the common .223 rounds and AK stuff.

This is what they are saying when they say its plentiful, we all use the same type, therefore if two *******s have a gunfight, both are hit and both are already dead when you happen to be the first one to discover, you pick up whats left and its useful to you because its the same calibre as what you already have.

This is what I think people really mean by plentiful and available.

Trick is, make sure you are not one of the *******s that gets into a street fight....

 

I think you"ve stated it very succinctly.

If you expect to be able to shoot it then you'd better be prepared to feed it. The only sure supply after the SHTF is what you've been able to put aside yourself. As to amounts of ammo you should store, it's up to you to decide what your needs are likely to be.

 

Agreed. As for how much ammo to store, I would say store as much as you can afford without sacrificing your other preps like food and such. Rather have too little ammo than too little food. If you are blessed with wealth, then it wouldn't hurt to store many thousands of boxes of ammo, they won't go bad if you store them right. Hell, fill a room up with it if you can afford it and have all your other preps taken care of. I don't think there's such a thing as too much ammo!

 

thats why i laugh at people who say they are going to loot the gun stores and stock up.

 

Having a common caliber weapon will make it easier for you to share or trade for ammo. If you have a rarer caliber weapon, chances are the ammo is much more expensive now, so you cannot stock up as much. And you will have a hard time finding it later. I don't think looting is the answer to getting ammo. But you might make friends along the way who'll give you a box of ammo, you might be able to trade. As it is, I know people who have way more ammo than I do. That is the advantage of a common caliber. It in no way implies that you should wait for bad things to happen before you stock up.

 

I like Ammo, also alot will be used for hunting

 

i like ammo, also alot will be used for hunting

i agree .......ammo good!!!!

 

I personally think we're more likely to see financial depression conditions than urban combat.

But if things got out of control then you'd be able to salvage guns, ammo, and mags from those who have "expired." Abandoned emergency, police, and military vehicles would also be good places to look.

Common calibers are cheaper now and would be more in demand after SHTF. So in terms of current purchases and future barter it is to your benefit to stock common calibers.

 

I personally think we're more likely to see financial depression conditions than urban combat.

I tend to agree...but if finances get bad enough, there will be food riots, fuel shortages, etc that can quickly spiral out of control. You don't need to plan for WWIII (hopefully), but you do need to prepare for an extended and vigorous defense.

 

I think you forgot the "relatively" people put in front of "plentiful" when they discuss mil-spec caliber availability post-SHTF.

I think you'll be much more easily able to trade for some .223/5.56mm than some .303 Brit or 7mm Mag, not to mention real weirdos like .35 Whelen.

I know there's some things I'd trade some ammo for. Gasoline, food, a water filter...there are a lot of things people need that having a mountain of ammo does not fix.

 

they only ammo you can 100% count on having around is the ammo you bring yourself. it is unlikley that there will be "plently" of anything in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation as looting things like ammo will be alot of people's first thoughts. i wouldnt count on using a gun/ammo store in this situation as money is likley to be renered useless and im sure the owner would rather keep his/her stock (it is his/hers after all) there might be a possibilty of trade but imho someone owning a gun/ammo store is likley to a be a survialist/prepper and have their own supplies.
that is if the hundreds/thousands etc of people in your locale dont try and loot the place en mass first.
i also wouldnt count on being supplied by the military. ammo wouldnt be overflowing with them as it is and most are instructed never to leave men/equipment behind (from what ive heard alot of mil vech etc in the US are told to thermite/grenade the engine block etc) and on that basis i wouldnt expect to use a military outpost (manned or unmanned) as a supply.

 

This is something ive thought about for a while . However i really dont think some people really understand the gravity of what someone will do when their kerosene lanterns or gas generators start running out fuel or a small group of people realize that you have 3 bags of bread and maybe some deer quarters sitting in your freezer .

I dont think its a stretch for those few people to start going door to door or running down the street yelling this guys got food and wont share and you have every desperate parents clambering up your door step trying to break it down because their kids arent eating 3 times a day. Not to mention gangs , im sure more than enough of them have stashes of weapons and ammunition .

I would say what the other gentleman said and keep as much as you can without shorting your other preps , keep your brass , take time to reload more ammunition , even store calibers you dont use .

 

Not to mention gangs, I'm sure more than enough of them have stashes of weapons and ammunition.

And won't be afraid to use them...

 

buy now while you can. While most Americans own guns, very few have more than a box or two laying around the house. Not nearly enough.

 

If it gets that bad, the only supply of ammo would be coming from our southern border as they try and take Texas and other border states. They have easy access to much more firepower than we do.

 

did i miss something.. i thought that was always the train of thought.. SHTF=only the ammo you have on hand. isnt that why we prep and buy in bulk?

 

I think that ammo could become a form of currency. If not it will certainly be a favored barter item. Firearms chambered in .22LR are extremely plentiful and many people that don't hunt or shoot on a regular basis still have one either left over from childhood, inherited or left from a hobby endeavor that never took off.

2500 to 3000 rounds can be had for 100 dollars (+/-). I'm talking about the 500 and 550 round offerings from Federal, Winchester and Remington. Many purists say that these products are inferior, but I have 3 Marlins and a Ruger that say otherwise.

A good pile of .22 is a great addition to supplies.

If, when and however TSHTF, the safe bet is to assume that nothing will be plentiful, and prepare for that. YMMV

 

These threads often turn into discussions about all the gunfights we'll be getting into lol. You are right there will not be readily available sources of ammunition. Gun stores will be emptied in the first couple of days (Primarily by their owners). Whatever is left will be odd crap. And there won't any laying around on dead bodies either. It's not a WWII battlefield. Whats you've got is whats you got. As far as how much well I'll throw some numbers out there as usual.

First off follow this philosophy. "Hope For SHTF...Plan For TEOTWAWKI". Assume that whatever event occurs will be the worst case scenario. Now think about what it would take to live for decades. Stored foods are just supplemental in the long term. They will run out. And there's no chickens or cows in the back yard (remember planning for the worst) so if you plan on having any meat hunting will be required. And you may have to do it every day because other than the occasional deer all you can find are Rabbits and Squirrels. Ok so the scenario is set. You're using one bullet a day. Not a lot right? Now take the 365 days in a year and multiply that by oh 20. Oh my that's 7300 rounds of ammunition used over a period of 20 years. This is of course assuming none of the following occured:

1. You never missed
2. You never needed more than one shot.
3. You never practiced to stay proficient.
4. Never test fired after a repair.
5. Had to defend against a wild animal attack.
6. Lost any ammunition due to corrsion or some other reason.
7. Used any to barter.
8. God forbid got into any shootouts during those two decades.

You see where I am going with this? To meet long term needs one could easily see how even 10,000 rounds are a drop in bucket.

 

You are absolutely right. This is why I say you can never have too much ammo. As far as gunfights, I don't think there will be that many of them, if any. People will learn very quickly that gunfights are not a good thing to be in the middle of.

 

Most police and military bases only keep on stock enough ammo for duty needs and maybe a little bit more. I wouldn't take stock on the idea of getting ammo from any police department, jail, prison or military facility unless you know where all the vault keys are kept and all the special combination numbers needed to open the lockers. So my basic premise has been that I need to supply myself in some manner. That means I need to learn to reload ammo and I need to stockpile it in various friendly locations - like relatives' places - so I can migrate to where the ammo is hidden. A simple program that I think will work better than hoping to stray across abandoned ammo.

 

Everything depends on what kind of SHTF it is.

I however do believe that if it gets scarce enough, ammo will become a kind of currency.

 

I think NOT planning for atleast a few armed engagements or having to defend your life against people trying to take it or your supplies is not smart and very stupid .

No one on this board can safely say that WITHOUT A SHADOW of doubt that they will NEVER encounter a situation where they will have to engage an armed individual(s) when basic needs are not being met either by the government or their own doing .

Instead of arguing about what may or may not happen how about just preparing for anything can happen .

No amount of sneaking around , ghillie suits , bol's or remote wilderness or opsec could stop a group of armed , starving individuals from tracking you right to your location or seeing your supplies .

 

Good chances who ever is shooting at you has one of those calibers so if u are lucky enough you can take his ammo... if ur following me here.

 

I don't think the gangs will have stock piled, but instead they will be taking from those of us who have. The more powerful gangs will have more supplies then they will know what to do with at first. Personally I want to have plenty of ammo for defense, hunting, practice and bartering. That is a lot of ammo!!! I don't include any of the cheap 22LR for my personal use. It will be strictly barter and I will save Mini Mags or similar for my family. 223,
7.62x39, and 22LR I will likely use for barter. I will have 223, 7.62X39, 22LR, 6.8 SPC, 12 guage, 7mm Rem mag 40 S&W, 10mm, 500 S&W and 500 BMG for my own use. Although I personally don't own a 9mm, I will likely have some on hand.

 

In my own line of thought, I believe whoever stated something about calibers being "plentiful" probably meant to say "prevalent" after SHTF. Some of those calibers (7.62 X 39, 7.62 X 54R, 7.62 X 25 and 9 X 18) wouldn't have been considered "common" calibers just 20 years ago but lots of folks have weapons that use them today and have stocked-up with cheap imported ammo.

What makes them "common" today is that you're just as likely to find an ammo trade or buying opportunity for those than even many popular hunting calibers found in shops.

"You can never have enough ammo".............truer words were never spoken. I got the bug a long time ago and am thankful for having been able to find fodder for my hardware when it was more reasonable and in decent quantity.

Still don't have enough though.:

 

I totally agree with the store your own use your own crowd but the one thing that drove me to love 22lr is the price and the space it takes up. I have over 6000 rounds in one 50 cal army box. I have a marlin 795 22lr rifle and I just signed the paperwork today for my new walther p22 hand gun. I am going to fill up at least 3 more 50 cal boxes now that I have a pistol and a rifle that need mre's. I have 8 clips for the rifle and am thinking at least 4 will do for the pistol but we will see how that ends up. 24,000 rounds in four 50 cal boxes is one way to pack it in, on a budget and in a small space. I have heard all the arguments about how innefective 22lr are but how much would 24 k rounds cost for a 45 cal? a 380? desert eagle??? I have other guns but I think unless you win the lottery 22lr fits the bill. :thumb:

 

I don't understand the people who say ammo will be in abandoned police or military vehicles or station houses.

1. I don't see the military walking away from a vehicle and leaving anything of value, especially ammo. Don't they travel in groups?

2. Police cars carry a shotgun and possibly a rifle. I can't see an officer leaving his car in the middle of an intersection with the lights on and running home to take care of the family, leaving either weapon in the car. He's most likely going to drive the darn thing home.

3. In my 30 year career as a LEO, we never had that much ammo stored in the station. That was kept a a central location. The ammo available was what the officers carried themselves. If they abandon the station, it would be taken at that time See #2.

4. The military aint going to patrol the street looking for toothless and rag tag groups to casually hand out ammo to. They are going to track it and hold soldiers just as accountable for every round, like they do now.

In any event, no ammo or other useable equipment would last 10 seconds in an "abandoned" vehicle after TSHTF.

What you got when the ball drops is going to be it, unless you take it from someone by force or can somehow make it yourself.

Where do they get the idea?

 

I don't understand the people who say ammo will be in abandoned police or military vehicles or station houses.

1. I don't see the military walking away from a vehicle and leaving anything of value, especially ammo. Don't they travel in groups?

2. Police cars carry ashotgun and possibly a rifle. I can't see an officer leaving his car in the middle of an intersection with the lights on and running home to take care of the family, leving either weapon in the car. He's most likely going to drive the darn thing home.

3. In my 30 year career as a LEO, we never had that much ammo stored in the station. That was kept a a central location. The ammo available was what the officers carried themselves. If they abandon the station, it would be taken at that time See #2.

4. The military aint going to patrol the street looking for toothless and rag tag groups to casually hand out ammo to. They are going to track it and hold soldiers just as accountable for every round, like they do now.

In any event, no ammo or other useable equipment would last 10 seconds in an "abandoned" vehicle after TSHTF.

What you got when the ball drops is going to be it, unless you take it from someone by force or can somehow make it yourself.

Where do they get the idea?

They probably get the idea from mixing movie and book plots. For example, in a pandemic scenario where an ebola-like virus spreads rapidly, it would probably kill the majority of the population.

Law enforcement isn't really equipped to deal with that and the military can't be everywhere at once. As a result many places will be abandoned and possibly contain ammo, etc.

The likelyhood? Who knows?

 

When people are talking about ammo being readily available, I honestly believe that topic of discussion is about most readily available calibers 95 percent of the time, ie.. what we are likely to encounter after things get tight. I have never envisioned crates of ammo lining the streets for easy picking, however I have envisioned tradeing perhapse some canned food stuffs for a military caliber ammuntions, therefore I own weapons which can utilize military ammunition. Honestly though I think too much can not be said for reloading, and investigating the older calibers which starte out as black powder metallic cartridges, after learning about them, and buying some bullet molds, and stocking up on primers, it becomes real easy to start feeling like there are thousands of rounds at your potential disposal.

 

i know a few guys reload their own ammo. I also know that shotguns originally ran on black powder- even before smokeless powder and paper cartridges. Is there reloading info available for (homemade)black powder- or stranger yet (yes I know its more powerful) is it possible to substitute flash powder as a shotgun/muzzleloader charge?

 

Flash powder? That's a no. Too fast (aka high pressures) for BP pressures/guns. And no reloading data.

Forget homemade black powder, too risky and inconsistent.

Think Golden Powder, it may be hygroscopic, but is easier to stockpile the components today and eminently more safe and the ingredients are multi purpose.

Golden Powder (Uncooked) 2nd version.

 

For those who need to reload, and do it cheaply:

(If you don't mind hammering on things that go "BOOM.")

 

For those who need to reload, and do it cheaply:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

(If you don't mind hammering on things that go "BOOM.")

That's how I started a long time ago. Now, several thousan dollars later my Reloading / Ham Shack has a Dillon 550 and turns out a round with every crank of the handle. It can be addicting.