One thing I know about Alice packs. It really depends on the individual, his/her size, and even the weather and terrain.


Same with a Bug out vehicle.


When I was in two branches of the Military back in the 80s and 90s I loved an Alice pack. But others would hate them. I loved them so much I own 4. But when I retire, if I am blessed with the health to go primitive camping I will get something lighter and more comfortable.

 

The molle pack has a better set of shoulder straps and kidney belt so carrying seems less painful over longer distances. I do like the alice pack bag better since it has more small pockets.

I combined the two and made my own custom pack. Used the molle frame, straps and sleep carrier bag with a medium alice bag. The large alice bag seemed to have to much weight away from my body and felt like I would fall backwards.

 

You need to figure it out now for yourself. Put about 4 gallons of water in the pack(s) and go walk around your neighborhood for an hour or two. Work up with more weight and distance/time. The pack that works best for you will be obvious.

I bought my external frame Kelty D4 pack in 1974 while in the Army. I drilled 2 new holes to relocate the top of the shoulder straps. I moved the upper back band down and added turnbuckles with Kevlar lacing to both back bands. Other than that the pack is original. I hauled over 150# elk quarters down a mountain. My buddy with a cheap pack was bleeding by the time we got down. He didn't go back.

 

Fill with gear, put it on and go for a hike.

Use it, or lose it.

 

I have, and have used, both....Purely my opinions on them but:

Pros and Cons

ALICE:
PROS:
-Roomy
-Ruggedly built
-Very comfortable and doesn't move around much when hiking or running (with right pads and shoulder straps)
-Long securing straps straps make it easy to secure your sleeping bag to the top.
-Outer pockets are very useful for organizing smaller items, as well as flap
-Fold the waist belt around the back of the pack and secure it, then use it as an attachment point to put an extra canteen/pouch on each side
-Quick release buckles on the shoulder straps work well
CONS:
-Weight. Including the frame they are on the heavy side even when empty.
-Flap is not easily accessible when straps are tightened down
-Water proofing on the flap peels off easily (and probably at this point in time there are not too many used USGI packs that have any of it remaining - so keep whatever is in the pouch in gallon baggies)
-Not as easy to attach secondary pouches/sustainment pouches as other systems (unless you modified it)
-Recommend using a waterproof bag inside of it (really have to say that about all of them though)
-the USGI kidney pad is okay, but the shoulder straps need improvement (easily corrected with Blackhawk or Tactical tailor pads and shoulder straps, but adds cost)
-No specific pouch for a hydration bladder (unless you added an aftermarket suspension or pad system - in my opinion worth it but adds cost and weight) or can always bungee a camelbak to it
-Metal frame that can eventually have some of the rivets pop out (its easy to fix with a pop rivet gun or a small self tapping metal screw...in the field just use some 100mph tape to hold it in place until you can correct it)

CFP-90
PROS:
-Roomy (to a fault)
-Probably the lightest of the choices when empty
-Extra rows of attachment points on the back (not MOLLE, but will work)
-Shoulder pads are well padded and comfortable
-No extra weight from an external frame
-Doesn't move around a lot when moving (then again once its packed full neither do you)
-Patrol pack (if yours has one - in all fairness you can add this to any of them)
-Very large outside pockets on the sides (could use one as a hydration bladder pouch if i remember correctly)
-Straps on top are just long enough to secure a sleeping back (if i remember correctly)
-Zipper at the bottom for accessing the inside of the pack without undoing the top straps (if I remember correctly)
CONS:
-Roomy - I once squeezed into one (along with the patrol pack) the entire contents of two duffel bags...i did have help to compress and hold it in place...weight was ridiculous once it was completely full and only useful for carrying it from the barracks to the truck to the aircraft and back again.
-I feel it is the least rugged of the choices
-Internal "frame" is just really two pieces of long, flat thin metal and easily bent (I took them out of mine)
-Kidney pad/small of your back pad/whatever the heck the little pad in the back is supposed to be sucks and provides little cushion for the small of the back/kidneys
-The channel that holds the little pad is made of plastic and the pad can be pulled out/jump track and (again, if I remember correctly) Its a bit of a pain to tighten the screws that hold the pad in place or they don't tighten well...can't remember exactly, i just remember thinking it was a bad design)
-Outside pockets are large, but few...I didn't feel it was as easy to organize gear in them as on the ALICE
-Strapping on the back was useful for attaching additional items, but doing this keeps moving the center of balance farther and farther back, placing additional strain on your back
-Belt padding was too thin (in my opinion) and its not really feasible to fold the belt around the back of the pack and buckle it to itself so its out of the way.
-Zipper at the bottom (if its packed full then leave it zipped or you are going to have a bad day getting it zipped back up)
-Best i can remember it was advertised as you should put your sleeping bag in the bottom - I think this is a bad idea because it throws off your center of gravity
-Main cavity is huge - don't even look for a waterproof bag for it, just get a couple of thick 55 gallon drum liners (not sure if that is really a con or a pro...seems useful until you are trying to find something that is lose somewhere in the middle of the pack)

MOLLE
(not sure which generation you have - I think mine is the MOLLE II, and its in woodland cammo)
PROS:
-Fairly light weight when empty, lighter than the ALICE (I think anyway)
-Rugged...maybe more so than the ALICE due to the material used.
-Comfortable once set up (After you have found a VCR and watched the video that came with it, and then spend several minuets cursing the strapping system and finally figured out how to set up the shoulder straps and waist belt/kidney pad)
-Out of the three i think the MOLLE shoulder straps are the most comfortable
-Largest kidney pad - seems thinner than an ALICE but I felt it gave better support and was at least as comfortable
-MOLLE webbing...everywhere...you can add extra pouches everywhere
-Very sturdy buckle system on the shoulder straps that with one pull uncouples and makes dropping the pack very easy
CONS:
-You need a VCR (sarcasm aside, if you have no experience setting one up then watch some videos online to save yourself time)
-Frame - cheap, plastic and it will eventually get cracks and breaks in it...seems like the spiderweb of straps and pouches still held it together for the most part, but eventually the frame will need to be replaced
-MOLLE webbing...everywhere...you can add extra Weight everywhere
-I know others will probably disagree but I felt as if the pack moved too much when its on your back...maybe not the main pack itself, but it just felt like there were about a dozen small pouches strapped to my back that would all move a tiny bit as I moved or ran
-Very sturdy buckle system that once broken (or lost) is a bit of a pain to improvise around (so I recommend carrying a spare or two)
-I really felt it could get too compartmentalized once you added all of the pouches and straps...this goes back to needing a large waterproof bag for the ALICE - You need several, various sized bags, for the MOLLE
-Sleeping bag pouch - personal preference, and I was always taught, put the sleeping bag ontop so the weight is pushing down on your shoulders and not pulling backward on your back...but to each their own on that one. i think the sleeping bag pouch is useless in its original place.


There is probably more, this is just what comes to mind.

Personally I prefer the ALICE...that may make a few cringe, but its what I grew up with and what I am most comfortable using and wearing.

I still have a couple of Large ALICE packs that I have set up...the main packs themselves are original, but I either put HSGI AliPads (now discontinued) with TT or Blackhawk straps and kidney pads on them, or one of the older London Bridge Trading ruck suspension systems (which alone will cost you more than the pack and frame together).

I did put together a couple of the Hellcat mods using ALICE frames, medium ALICE packs, MOLLEE sustainment pouches on each side and MOLLE shoulder straps and kidney pads, along with a metal canteen and a 2 quart USGI canteen strapped to it...actually my current vehicle BOB is one of these and I think its very comfortable as well as stays in place well while on the move

However, if i had to pick only one pack it would be a large ALICE with improved shoulder straps, kidney pad and back pad with places for hydration bladders.

Actually you are pretty lucky...if you have all three then fill them up and try them out, as well as try putting together a Hellcat system.

 

You'll have to try them out, but for hiking you'll want something lighter imo. Something like the CFP weighs 8lb for a 90L pack. For reference, my backpacking weight without the pack is 13lb, and i'm not using the lightest pack, but 3lb about for my pack of 38L. Of course this doesn't include water or food, but i'm not using the most light materials or things like that. Nor the lowest bulk, but even that's enough to get me to freezing for a couple of days. Lower than that i need a little bit of extra room for my sleeping bag, and extra layers, but still nothing close to 90L .

Military packs are good for the military, where your gear will get manhandled and basically abused. Where you need a lot of room for extra supplies and whatever is needed for the mission (radio's and other electronics, battery packs, extra ammunition, ...). For hiking use, you'll be a lot more comfortable with packs made for hiking .

That being said, i do have a Sabre45 with side packs, it's a pretty good pack, but my osprey one is the one i use unless i need my below freezing sleeping bag. And if i could justify spending the money, i'd get something like the flex capacitor or osprey exos to use in winter

Oh, and about those who worry about the durability and want the durability to drive a tank over the pack without the pack breaking or ripping? Just take care of your gear. If a tank is driving over my pack while hiking, something has gone terribly wrong somewhere. Take a bit of care of your gear, and it'll last you for many years, and comfortably. Spending a bit of extra money, on gear you regularly use, will be well spent. Getting the gear to then never use it because you're under the impression that backpacking needs to start with heavy loads and constant suffering will not be positive for your hiking fun. Especially in this day and age when you can get a pretty cheap and light setup going .

 

Add weight. Wear for at least half an hour and walk around doing things...pick the most comfortable one

 

I never liked the Alice with the frame, but I'm long waisted. I liked the Molle II better. I've also heard of hybreds of the Molly pack on the Alice frame, though I've never tries one. I had the CFP-90 only for a short while. Holds a ton, but uncomfortable.

I'm proud to have been Army, but the Marines have us beat in packs. I use the Gen II ILBE now. (what few times I carry anything on foot)

 

If im doing bushcraft hard use sorta stuff, i have a custom made alice style tactical tailor ruck, but if im just doing thru hiking and camping stuff i use a granite gear crown 2. It weighs about 2 pounds whereas my tactical tailor ruck is over 5 pounds.

 

I love the ILBE it is by far my favorite pack. JMHO and S/FI!

 

Does anybody have much experience with these various packs? If so, which would be your first, second and third choice? Primary purpose would be for shorter distance backpacking trips but also considerations for BOB or longer distance backpacking.

Load each pack up and go for a 2-10 mile hike. That may knock one out of the running. Then, go on some backpacking trips and find out what works. No one here can tell you what fits your body.

 

A 2-10 mile hike would knock all three out of the running. :

 

I have an Eberlestock F4 Terminator; weighs 9lbs and feels like 2lbs, when worn.

It's a beautiful backpack. Well worth the $700 it cost me.

 

Holy cow...that thing weighs as much as almost all of my gear combined, including the pack.

 

For those of you that have used the Alice system. If you like what kind of torso do you have? If you don't like it/doesn't work for you what kind of torso?

For those with experience with molle or ILBE same question.

 

for those of you that have used the alice system. If you like what kind of torso do you have? If you don't like it/doesn't work for you what kind of torso?

For those with experience with molle or ilbe same question.

long waisted , broad shoulders, no neck. Ilbe for me have a few alice mule or donkey will carry them. No molle i hate them.

 

thick thru the chest, short waist, flat back,long arms. couple tweaks here and there .ALICE frame fit me perfect. I did change the buckle to one of these, a COBRA, I just dont like the NSN style one.The only reason im going to the Hill People gear pack, is My ALICE is getting like me, old and beat to hell. frame has hauled everything from 5 gal jerry cans, to meat, to firewood and the like. have re-riveted and re-welded on several occasions, and the shelf has been replaced twice. It has been a excellent system for me, and I will keep mine till it falls apart, but its time to move on.:thumb:

 

LOL All I've ever used was the Alice system with medium, later with the Hellcat mod. Now that I feel ancient and really worn out I'm wondering if something else might do better for me but if I change I will stay with milsurp. Of my 6'6" length wise fairly proportional, wide shoulders, thick chest with stomach that's now matching (almost need an extender on my "L" pistol belt). LOL

 

MOLLE gen 2 top of the list hand down. As long as its Gen 2 frame (Gen 1s cracked a lot). If the frame is foliage or desert color, its a gen 2.

Then ALICE large ruck if you cant get a Gen 2 MOLLE

CFP 90, strike it off your list completely. Had several in the Army and always had to turn it back in for a new one because things kept breaking or the suspension kept stripping out

By the way The CFP 90 isn't new. It was the Army's first attempt at a issued internal frame mountain ruck in the late 80s. Great concept, miserable failure.

 

ALICE has an optional alum pack shelf that is dandy for humping crates, boxes, etc. Attaches to the bottom of the standard frame.

Is there such an item for the MOLLE frame?

 

Not that Im aware of. Those shelfs weren't very practical though. Why hump a crate of ammo when yo can break it down to the bandoliers and make it lighter and pack it in your ruck with everything else you were carrying

 

At almost 9 pounds, the CFP-90 is crazy heavy. I used mine for a couple seasons, in between the Fox Tactical Rio Grand (which is a supprisingly good pack for how cheap it is). Mine was a Taiwan replica. It had a few strap and buckle issues I had to fix, but the over all design concept is really good.

Its actually too big.

When I was trying to develop a single pack that I could live out of for a whole year, through winter and summer combined, I was actually able to get it all in the CFP-90..the pack was like 90 pounds and all...but it took the bulk and the weight and ate it as a snack.

I eventually gave up on that idea and went with a high end hunting pack that had some similar design features. Its smaller, and made with way lighter materials, and comes in at just 4 pounds. But I still have the large side pocket design, combined with top and bottom access and a top panel that has a storage pocket in it.

The system got stripped down to function down to 32 degrees wet, no fire and now comes in at 46 pounds.

 

I have used both alice and CFP-90, for fay-to-day short hikes the frame less med. Alice wind. For the few time used on a longer multiday trip I have used my CFP-90, it was ok. I can understand how someone one overloading the pack could strip out the suspension setup, never had problems with mine.
However if you really want a backpackers backpack you should pass on all 3 of your current bags listed. A pack should weight under 4 pounds max. A Kelty redwing-50lt. is a good place to start.
Gossamer gear makes some great packs that weight less than 3 pounds. But don't let a salesman suck you in.
As others have said, mil gear is for military, civi for the rest. Every extra pound your pack weights is one less day of food or supplies you can pack.

 

I think it should be pointed out that military packs are made for people in extremely good shape, who actually only cary a simple, minimalist survival system. everything else is gear and ammo.

The 7000 calories of food they eat in a day comes form the pre staged supply line. so does the gallon or more of water they drink in a day. Thats why they only carry small canteens.

So a military pack is built to haul heavy gear, that may have shapes or corners to them. This necessitates extremely strong pack materials. Thats why they are all like 9 pounds.

As a civilian, we dont carry 70 pounds of gear and ammo. We can get by with a 4 pound pack filled with 45 pounds of oldschool gear...and even that, most of it is really just a change of cloths, wool blanket wool hoodie and wool base layers. Or easier said "Mostly cloths". The actual camping gear part is minimal.

If you go "New" school, you are 25 pounds total weight, and much of that is the food and water.

 

I never used or understood the why of the CPF-90.

It looked to me like the suspension system was designed by a committee.

For freak sake I've got a Lowe/Vector Loco pack I've had for 30+ years. The only thing I ever replaced was the hip belt buckle when it got stomped on a time or two.

Granted it's not seen military use but a crap ton of on and off trail miles.

 

I don't use the lightest weight stuff, but my base weight including some non-essential luxuries is 12-13lbs. Add to that the ~ 1L of water I usually carry, and 1.5-1.75lbs of food per day and I usually have around 20-25lbs on my back depending upon the duration of the trip.

 

I bought an ALICE ruck and decided to make my own frame out of PVC. I could custom form it, of course, to suit me. Took it on an 8 mile overnighter. I was out of shape, but the pack setup was great.

 

I have a couple of extra large ALICE packs and toyed with making a frame out of PVC. The price of frames seems tohave gone up since I last checked.

How much abuse has it taken? I dont expect it to take a fall from too high but my airborne days are over anyway.

 

For emergencies, I've got...oh goodness. Probably 10 alice packs? More? I snagged those at a bargain (Large for 15$? YES PLEASE!)

What I've done for packs I intend to use is marry the Molle-2 system with it. You replace the horrible shoulder straps and waist with the Molle-2 versions, and it actually feels decent on the back. I know its on the heavy side with the metal frame, but they're basically indestructible.

For backpacking, I'd go with something lighter; since weight is key, and it doesn't NEED to survive an attack by gators and a hurricane.

 

What I've done for packs I intend to use is marry the Molle-2 system with it. You replace the horrible shoulder straps and waist with the Molle-2 versions, and it actually feels decent on the back. I know its on the heavy side with the metal frame, but they're basically indestructible.

Yeah, for a little while ALICE packs were super inexpensive...price is slowly going up now.

I think what you are referring to is more commonly known as the Hellcat Mod...I built a couple, made for nice setups...I prefer to use medium ALICE packs and add MOLLE sustainment pouches to it