I thought it was illegal ?

 

If he had been using FMJ in one of the .30 caliber cartridges, he may have had nearly the same results. This is part of the reason I don't like FMJ for personal defense.

 

Your friend sounds like a horrible shot. Tell him to hit the range more before tearing up some more caged game......

As for the .223/5.56 and whitetail...ask this guy:

 

First let me say that you should probably demand your friend spend some more time at the range.
Second I will say that inside of 150 yds. or so the .223 rd. is quite deadly on game under 200 lbs. I use the 55 gr. xm193 on hogs here and as long as you don't try and stretch the range that round is adequate because of it's characteristic fragmentation.

 

I second wholeheartedly your entire statement brother, mainly because I know you personally and that your knowledge/experience with firearms is well above average.:thumb:

 

2rugers said exactly what I was going to say literally to the word.

I use 7.62x51mm FMJ on TX hogs, but keep the shots under 250m for the most part. This helps to ensure an exit wound. ( Works well on 2 legged critters as well)

I have used 60gr soft tips(223) on hogs and whitetail deer, and as already mentioned...... it will do the job if the hunter does theirs.
With that being said...I wouldnt use 223 for northern white tails, Mulies, Elk or moose, unless that was all I had, and needed to hunt said animals to survive.

Incorrect shot placement on an animal with bullets designed for hunting will yield less than stellar results, much less FMJ.

If this was a guided hunt, how come the guide didn't back your buddy up with his own rifle?



11B

 

If this was a guided hunt, how come the guide didn't back your buddy up with his own rifle?


11B

no clue, i'll have to ask. Afraid I've never been on a guided hunt

 

i don't know about other state but 223 is illegal to hunt big game with here and thats why

 

Some states it is, and some it isnt. It is always a good thing to know the rules and regs of the state you want to hunt in.

11B

 

You could shoot it with a 450 marlin, but a poorly placed shot still wont get a kill. Well maybe with a 450 marlin, but not all the time.

 

Before we get into a ****ing contest, let me say this;


Shot placement.
Shot placement.
Shot placement.

 

Oh I agree... obviously a nice head shot would have been the end of it. Unfortunately that just isn't always plausible. Now I didn't witness the shots, only the aftermath.

 

Agree and the bullets definitely matter. Need a softpoint for hunting.

 

I concur as well.. Using FMJ for hunting is just plain irresponsible and unethical. There's a reason most states forbid its use on big game.

Use the right damn load for hunting game! As hunters, we have ethical responsibilities so that game animals don't run off unrecovered to die a slow, lingering death.

Use your XM193 or M855 only after TSHTF. Proper softpoint hunting ammo is readily available and not that expensive for a box of 20.

Winchester makes a most excellent 64gr softpoint, and Corbon offers their 55gr DPX. They are both suitable .223 medium game hunting loads

 

His first shot if true was a killing shot, however a solid .233 is not a quick kill. Had he sat and waited the lungs would have collapsed and the ram would have laid down. This is not a wise choice. The 55 grain nosler partion or a 55 gr. SP or 64 gr. sp would do for 200 lbs or less at less than 150 yrds. in most standard .223 barrels and their twists.

 

A friend of mine recently went on a guided ram hunt (not my cup o tea, but whatever). As it took place on a private ranch he was allowed to take whatever he wanted. He took his Colt Ar-15 HBAR Carbine.. now knowing my friend he probably took the cheapest ammo he had (Wolf 55gr fmj no doubt).

His first shot was pretty dead on (standard front shoulder shot), and had little effect, his second was a bit off (near the rear hip, high, close to the spine). His 3rd struck near the first, and FINALLY, yes... I know, Finally his 4th shot struck forward of the first 2 in the neck and brought down the ram.

I know that 55gr is light, and FMJ is not the ideal round for the job. I am also aware that there is no shortage of info out there regarding hunting load info. I'm merely curious to hear anyone's personal experiences with 5.56/.223 on whitetail or larger game, what twist/load/bullet you used, and what kind of success you had.

Thanks for reading!

Well, I've been hunting deer and wild boar with the 5.56x45 round for almost 30 years and have had great success with it. Using the 62gr JHPBT or JSPBT round is VERY effective in bringing down these animals although the 55gr JSP round is no slouch either. As with ANY caliber or round, shot placement is key to the "one shot...one kill" principle. A firearm is only as good as the shooters proficiency.

A few years back I brought down a wild boar in east Texas known as the "piney woods rooter" which can grow quite large which dressed out at almost 570lbs with a head shot using the 62gr JSPBT which was a devastating hit. My aiming point was at the base of the ear at just under 100 yards. With deer, my aiming point is at the base of the head for which I have dropped a significant number of them.

Practice to proficiency and consistency is key with ANY firearm.:thumb: My $0.02 worth on this subject.

I choose the 62gr round because both my AR15 and M4 have 1:9 barrels, 16" and 20" respectively.

 

Thank you! Great info...

One thing... are you aware that your jet is wearing a tutu?... just saying :

 

I don't have personal experience, and I apologize for not having the specifics of my source, but I DO recall an interesting article I read in a gun rag discussing the ballistics of various handloads in the 5.56/.223. It included an interview with a fellow who claimed to routinely drop whitetail at 650 yds with one hit, using a handload in the +.50 BC range. The bullets that heavy were long enough he had to single feed them through the ejection port, but he said it worked for him.

Personally, I think hunting deer like that is irresponsible, done purely for the bragging. Where I grew up, most killed their deer (blacktail) with bows. A few used .30-.30's, and some hunted with blackpowder, for the extended season. Very few game warrant shots at ranges beyond 200 yds, IMHO.

 

I don't have personal experience, and I apologize for not having the specifics of my source, but I DO recall an interesting article I read in a gun rag discussing the ballistics of various handloads in the 5.56/.223. It included an interview with a fellow who claimed to routinely drop whitetail at 650 yds with one hit, using a handload in the +.50 BC range. The bullets that heavy were long enough he had to single feed them through the ejection port, but he said it worked for him.

Personally, I think hunting deer like that is irresponsible, done purely for the bragging. Where I grew up, most killed their deer (blacktail) with bows. A few used .30-.30's, and some hunted with blackpowder, for the extended season. Very few game warrant shots at ranges beyond 200 yds, IMHO.

That is for sure brother and on BOTH counts! My average distance I'd say over all the years of deer hunting is well less than 200 yards. The closer, the better, and the chances of a clean kill MUCH better....which is what any sensible, serious, and dedicated hunter wants.

Long distance shots to me belong at the range for maintaining proficiency and bragging rights there are ok.

The longest shot I ever made was on my first deer hunt with my dad, but I was shooting my Dads Springfield 1903A3 30-06 and a distance of just over 300 yards, but an easy shot with that rifle....which I still have and in pristine shooting condition and appearance at that. It's a nail driver and will always be my favorite bolt gun.:thumb:

 

My input...

This was my first year deer hunting. I had the option to borrow a rifle of a larger cal, but opted for my AR since I know it inside and out (I guess I prioritized guaranteed placement over extra mass & momentum). I was using remington 55gr PSP. The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, breaking three ribs, at an angle towards the left side of the neck. I found both the jacket and bullet lodged just to the right of the spine between the shoulder blades, touching the fur. So the bullet obviously tumbled a bit, and didn't exit. He had gone down immediately, and didn't get back up. Kicked for a minute while bleeding out.
Only one deer isn't the same bragging rights as some of the guys here, but that's my experience. AR=1, Deer=0.
Hope this helped. I personally wouldn't try it with a moose, but I'll use it for white tail again next year.

 

This was my first year deer hunting. I had the option to borrow a rifle of a larger cal, but opted for my AR since I know it inside and out (I guess I prioritized guaranteed placement over extra mass & momentum). I was using remington 55gr PSP. The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, breaking three ribs, at an angle towards the left side of the neck. I found both the jacket and bullet lodged just to the right of the spine between the shoulder blades, touching the fur. So the bullet obviously tumbled a bit, and didn't exit. He had gone down immediately, and didn't get back up. Kicked for a minute while bleeding out.
Only one deer isn't the same bragging rights as some of the guys here, but that's my experience. AR=1, Deer=0.
Hope this helped. I personally wouldn't try it with a moose, but I'll use it for white tail again next year.

Go with what you know. You were successful because of that. Good on ya!:thumb:

 

My brother has taken a buck and a doe with a .223 55grn hollow point, one shot each, right behind the should, top of the lungs clipping the bottom of the spine. Both dropped in their tracks. If you hit them in the right spot you can take big game down with just about anything. Even with big calibers if you hit them in the wrong spot they can go a longs ways before they die. Shot placement.

 

My brother has taken a buck and a doe with a .223 55grn hollow point, one shot each, right behind the should, top of the lungs clipping the bottom of the spine. Both dropped in their tracks. If you hit them in the right spot you can take big game down with just about anything. Even with big calibers if you hit them in the wrong spot they can go a longs ways before they die. Shot placement.

'Not just everything...the ONLY thing!:thumb:

 

I've killed a couple of deer and several turkey with the 223. I didn't start using the 223 again until this year, I haven't had a chance to draw down on either on yet, but I'll keep trying.

Shoot them right and they're going down. I'm using 55gr BTHP right now, but plan on buying some 75g's to try out.

I love hunting with my AR, it's so much more fun than my 270 BAR. That being said I plan on getting a 6.8 upper for next year.

 

"I'm using 55gr BTHP right now, but plan on buying some 75g's to try out."
---------------------------
Are those hornady loads?

I picked up some 52gr BTHP and 75gr BTHP both hornady for my POF.

The 75gr match stuff was excellent but havnt shot the 52gr yet.

 

You have to do your part when using it for medium or larger game.

I never had trouble with AE 55 FMJBT on moose, caribou, black bears and other game but virtually all of my shooting was at short range, from a fixed position and I had plenty of time. With the better bullets they make now, it will help some for distance shooting. But YOU have to be on. I am especially fond of Hornady V-Max and Trophy Bonded. It's devastating stuff.

 

Here is an interesting link complete w/ pics of the kills using the good old AR15. Also contains an informative comparison of various .223 loads.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=406468

 

Sweet thread, thanks for the link! Just the info i was looking for. :thumb:

 

I took out a Grizzly at 400 yards with my shuriken.

 

Back in 1989, long before using a "Black Rifle" for hunting was considered sporting, I took a buck with my Colt AR15 in California. I used a 70 grain Sierra soft-point handload. I had resolved to pass up any quartering away shots, and keep the range modest. As it turned out, I encountered a classic broadside heart/lung presentation at ninety yards and he dropped like he was pole-axed.

Those wanting to use "off-the-shelf" .223 ammo should be aware that standard hollow-point, soft-point, and plastic ballistic tip ammo in the 45 to 55 grain range is intended for very (very) light game and is designed for fast fragmentation. Certainly not for deer or pig.

Federal Gold Medal Match uses the Sierra MatchKing bullet (variously known as an OTM "open tip match") and it has a non-skived tougher jacket not intended to expand. Still, not intended for hunting.

Winchester, on the other hand, makes a 64 grain load with their tough "PowerPoint" bullet that was designed for big game. For the non-hand loader, it's one of the better choices at the moment.

 

I don't see W-W 64gr Powerpoint cataloged anymore!
Did Winchester stop production of this most excellent cartridge?

 

That would suck!
We had them on our shelf just last year.

Without the fine 64 gr PowerPoint the next best load might have to be a Federal Gold Medal Match 69 gr MatchKing. They don't expand, but the long bullet would yaw and do damage. A poor substitute, but better than a light hollowpoint that fragmented on a shoulder blade..

 

Oh yeah, we handloaders have oodles of good options. It's the guys who have to buy their stuff off-the-shelf that are limited.

 

Tell your friend my "regards".

Such pricks give all hunters a bad name. If you can't afford adequate caliber rifles and adequate ammo: play with your self when watching youporn.

 

Well one could argue that going to a ranch, and having someone point out an animal that was farm raised isn't hunting anyway. But that's not really the point of my thread. My point was a little more in tune with the SHTF aspect of eat or die

 

5.56 and hunting big game :rofl::space:headshake::wow hahahaha whoa nelly! That was funny!



You were joking right?

 

5.56 and hunting big game :rofl::space:headshake::wow hahahaha whoa nelly! That was funny!



You were joking right?

No, not joking at all. Deer and wild boar are not considered "big game", but I've been using the 5.56x45 taking both for almost 30 years. 'Took a 330 lb boar several weeks back as a matter of fact...one shot, one kill. Proficiency rules.

 

How about this. Why don't we start a thread showing the effectiveness of the .223/5.56 from an AR rifle by posting the animals we have killed with either one of the rounds? Sound like a good idea? Unfortunately, here in Kansas they have a caliber restriction on large game that prevents one from taking game with either round. I believe you could take a moose or a bear or whatever with an AR as long as the shooter does his or her part to make the right shot with the right bullet. I have plenty of buddies down in TX that go out to their leases with only their AR during deer season and a couple of them have killed several dear with it. I would like to see photos from someone who killed a bear with one. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an AR. You could also use a nice bolt action if that's what you have available. One simple rule - the bigger the game the better.

 

How about this. Why don't we start a thread showing the effectiveness of the .223/5.56 from an AR rifle by posting the animals we have killed with either one of the rounds? Sound like a good idea? Unfortunately, here in Kansas they have a caliber restriction on large game that prevents one from taking game with either round. I believe you could take a moose or a bear or whatever with an AR as long as the shooter does his or her part to make the right shot with the right bullet. I have plenty of buddies down in TX that go out to their leases with only their AR during deer season and a couple of them have killed several dear with it. I would like to see photos from someone who killed a bear with one. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an AR. You could also use a nice bolt action if that's what you have available. One simple rule - the bigger the game the better.

Start it up brother! I'm game for it. Excellent idea!:thumb:

 

Well then. I stand corrected.

I would love to see anything my AR is capable of doing other than punch paper. Especially to the pigs in your neck of the woods. On another forum I frequent the're an individual that has killed nearly a hundred pigs in the last year or so with his 450 or 458 AR. Wonder why he didn't just save his money and stick to the 5.56.

 

No problem whatsoever Millertyme.
I used to think all FMJ was the same regardless of caliber too. I shoot some Swiss gp-11 and have not noticed it fragmenting whatsoever (never used it on game but I have recovered spent bullets after firing through 3/8ths" mild steel), bent and dented but not in pieces.
I think for most calibers the FMJ "clean punch through" still holds true though.