Ten seconds is forever in a gunfight. Yes studies have shown the .22 to be effective at stopping trouble. But I want something that will hit hard and shock their system to reduce their ability to target me, and end the fight in 1-3 rounds, if possible. That is 9mm with HST, .357 or anything starting with a ".4 or .5 or 12g."

The old saying, "first hit wins," is still true. First accurate hit. So a .22 is viable, but would not be my first choice.

 

Just my opinion, but if one is not proficient enough to make a head or heart shot at pistol defense ranges it is questionable if they would do any better with a 9mm or .45 cal hand gun. As a young soldier I was taught and I taught my men, 1 shot 1 dead enemy, save ammo make every shot a kill shot.

 

Rim fire ammunition is inherently less reliable than centerfire. It is vital that you use only high quality ammunition which has proven thoroughly reliable in your pistol or revolver. In my Walther TPH I carried only CCI Mini Mag solids. The .22 is ABSOLUTELY NOT a first choice and should be carried only in NPE when a more effective gun is not possible.

I replaced the Walther and a Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP with the original version Ruger LCP .380 for my minimalist, low profile carry. The LCP has proven reliable with Winchester 95-grain flatnosed FMJ. It wears a Hogue grip sleeve.

 

Rim fire ammunition is inherently less reliable than centerfire. It is vital that you use only high quality ammunition which has proven thoroughly reliable in your pistol or revolver.

I don't shoot near as much now,but I'm having a hard time remembering the last 10 years that I had a .22"dud" that wasn't due to a malfunction vs. the primer,but I'm sure it has happened.
Back in the day,.22 was cheap,stick a loose box in your pocket,not clean your gun for 2 years,it happened a lot more.
I have no facts to back it up,but gut feeling .22 is a lot more reliable than years ago.

 

.22 is viable if you have great aim and get head shots on first try, body shots wont stop them quickly enough

 

Head hits below eye sockets do not instantly incapacitate. The lethal area to hit is small.

Low powered, RN bullets frequently glance off the skull and fail to penetrate.

The head is frequently moving and it is difficult to achieve a lethal hit beyond near contact distance.

You watch too much TV and have not witnessed enough post-mortems.

 

The wife unit carries a .22LR, mostly due to the fact she has control issues with large calibers. My thinking is I personally would not want to be hit with a .22, a bad guy probably would not either.

 

THIS - is one (of several) situations where .22 is a viable option.

When I was teaching I had two petite older ladies in their late 70's. They simply could not rack any of my class semis, or pull double action triggers. Then I gave them a Ruger SR .22. The light spring they could rack easily, the SA trigger and recoil was easy. They each bought matching guns and I'd recommend not breaking into their house...

The Baretta Tomcat is another good option, I forget if it comes in .380 or only .32. Iirc correctly Patton carried a .32 revolver as backup. And police did also in some places.

Any gun will do, if you will do.

 

Like I said, not my first choice. If I weren't concerned with concealment, a duty sized 45 would be the obvious choice.

 

take a look at the 32acp, 100 years ago it was the standard small carry, i have a Beretta Tomcat and like it alot, with the right ammo it can be affective for self defense

 

Problem with the Beretta Tomcat and Keltec is that they are NOT durable in high volume use with the most effective CIP 77-grain "heavy ball" ammo. In my experience, shooting several guns to destruction in training use, is that useful service life with full-charge CIP ammo is about 2000 rounds. If this meets your requirement, then buy a pair, keep ammo logs and view the highest use gun as being disposable.

 

..... still wouldn't be my first choice, but as I get older and have more physical issues.......heavier cartridges may have to be given up for something like a .22.

That is about the only argument I can buy for using a .22 for SD.

In modern polymer guns, you can carry 15-21 rounds in the gun, the gun is silly light, operation and use are easy without any real hand strength required.

The ABSOLUTE REALITY is, most of us won't ever need to "stop a determined attacker", so the fact that a coked up meth head might just wade through the whole thing without batting an eye isn't a valid argument agianst carrying the .22; it's more a valid argument for staying out of malls and Waffle Houses, IYKWIM.

 

It sounds like you are talking about a house gun for sometimes use and a small carry gun. If so I don't have a problem with a 22lr but wouldn't want a tiny 22 gun. I would rather have something like my Ruger Standard models with 4" or 6" barrels. Both point naturally and both are dead nuts reliable. They are heavy enough that there just isn't any recoil to speak of and they are heavy enough to be a club if needed. They would make a good house gun.

But for carry I would rather have something in the size range of the Bersa "Thunderer" that is the same size as a Beretta model 70 or Walther PPK. And if going that big I would rather have it in 32acp. Very light recoil and big enough to be easy to shoot. ut if you went with something like the Ruger LCP II check it for reliability before you trust it. I have read both good and bad reviews on the gun. But a Kel-Tec P32 in 32acp would be a better choice.

Also what 22 gun were you shooting at the range?

Ruger®

www.ruger.com

 

But for carry I would rather have something in the size range of the Bersa "Thunderer" that is the same size as a Beretta model 70 or Walther PPK. And if going that big I would rather have it in 32acp. Very light recoil and big enough to be easy to shoot.

The .380's in those guns are also easy to shoot.
I LOVE my Bersa .380, it's just a sweet gun to shoot.
Of course, then you get to play the .380 vs .32 game of ballistic choices.

But serously....the poly .22's are under 1 lb empty. SO much lighter than the Bersa and Walther, and in compact versions, about the same size or smaller in length and width.

 

Any gun is better than no gun.

Everyone has their own requirements and different tools do different jobs. I carry a 10mm or rifle in the back country. I think the question to be asking here is in comparison to what? Pistols aren't inherently great in gunfights but they sure are portable. If it's between no gun and a .22, take a .22. Something like a ruger 10/22 vs a handgun 9mm and I'd be questioning why you wouldn't use a bigger rifle caliber at that point. Recoil from 556 with proper technique is mild. Small children can and do effectively use it.

knife < small pistol < bigger pistol caliber < small rifle < bigger rifle caliber

 

This is my favorite YT video showing what a 22 can do against meat and ribs. The guy had a cow that died and he tested the Ruger LCP II with Velocitor ammo in the meat and ribs and it made some pretty nasty looking wounds. It gives you the idea that a 22 may be better than you have been led to believe.

 

This is my favorite YT video showing what a 22 can do against meat and ribs. The guy had a cow that dies andhe tested the Ruger LCP II with Velocitor ammo in the meat and ribs and it made some pretty nasty looking wounds. It gives you the idea that a 22 may be better than you have been led to believe.

https://www.survivalistboards.com/threads/viability-of-real-pocket-and-micro-handguns-in-today%E2%80%99s-world.974025/page-8?post_id=21020972#post-21020972

Pretty impressive. Thanks for sharing it. I just happen to have a whole brick of velocitor I got back in the last ammo shortage. Might have to reconsider the caliber.

Backside of ribs after two layers of denim. That's gonna sting your reed.

 

2 X 22 = 44. So …

 

So.........my Sig P322 is a 10 shot 44!!!!!!


YYYYYEEEESSSS!!!!!!!!

 

And I know two people that accidentally killed someone with a .22, one was a ricochet off a T-post at almost 90 degrees, and one was a young kid at the range with his family.

My point being....for every case of "the 22 didn't work", there is another case of 'the 22 worked far too well".

I also know a guy that shot someone at 10 yards in the face with 12 gauge birdshot. That person is stil alive.

 

10 yds !
Was the shotgun shooter named D i c k Cheney

My wife has recoil issues so she carries a S&W revolver in 22 mag. She is really a good shot with it, so I im always nice to her.....

 

I think a 22 can be underestimated. One with a suppressor, and subsonic ammo can be a great deterrent to an aggressor that doesn't know where the shots are from. That said, I think the selection of defense hardware is really determined by the situation you're forced to address.

 

Why not ? Good cci 40 gr HP at close distance would do the trick. Shot placement , as always would be key.

 

Girlfriend runs the Sig .22.
Pretty simple choice: pepper spray or pepper 'em with .22 ?
She lifts for bone density and has gone martial arts cray cray.
I'll be moving to the Yukon if it doesn't work out.

 

A 22 can be deadly particularly a head shot but I wouldn't want to rely on it .

Funny all the zombie movies I see people with AR or other rifles and shot guns and I'm like give me a Ruger 10/22 cary thousands of rounds of ammo and you have to shoot them in the head to kill them 22 do well in head shots LOL

 

A 22 can be deadly particularly a head shot but I wouldn't want to rely on it .

Poor comparison, but one of my hunting buddies took down a 147# sow, by a shot to the eye. Henry SR7, standard 22LR ammo, Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44mm scope. As I recall, 18 meter shot.

 

Yes, a .22 is very viable for self defense. I'm 74 years old now, but I've been carryng a .22 of some kind since I was a teenage gang member in D.C. In January of 1969, I used a .22 derringer to defend myself against a guy tying to bash my head in in an ally in an attempted robbery. They are right, the .22 has no one shot stop capability. I had to shoot him twice. The first shot was very close range, maybe 2 feet after I had ducked his first swing. The shot made him hunch up a bit with a grunt, and he went to swing on me again with the steel bar in his hands. The second shot was maybe a foot from muzzle to belly, and I don't know what it hit, but the effects was instant. He dropped the bar, doubled over and went to his knees, then toppled over on his side in a tight fetal position, screaming in obvious pain. I ran like heck and got out of there. Gun used was a Svenson 4 aces in .22 short.

In April of 1988, on a backpacking trip in the Shenandoah National Park 17 miles south of Front Royal Virginia, I used a mini .22 revolver by North American Arms to run off a wacko invading my campsite at night. One warning shot and he ran faster than Usane Bolt at the Olympics. I broke camp and made tracks the other way.

On Memorial Day 2017 just after dawn, at a very deserted interstate rest area in West Texas, two young guys tried to carjack me, but changed their minds when they realized that they had brought knives to a gun fight. They ran off back towards the river and Mexico.

I've used a .22 my whole life. I've tried other guns, but just didn't like them enough to keep them. With a .22 I can afford to practice thousands of rounds a month way way cheaper than I can afford center fire. And growing up in the 14th street corridor of D.C. in a slum apartment, I saw lots of violence as a kid. I saw two guys get. in a fight one night, one guy pulling a strait razor, the other guy pulling a cheap German RG .22 revolver, and killing the razor guy on the spot. shot him 4 or 5 times real fast like poppoppoppop and razor guy fell back and thrashed around a bit gagging up bright red frothy stuff, then went very still. Dead as a door nail. In the 1960's, the RG.22 revolver was one of the most popular guns on the street. Cheap, reliable, and you could toss it in the river with no regrets. The Italian Galessi .25 auto was also a popular gun. By the late '70's, the Raven .25 was getting popular as well as the RG.22 revolver and FIE titan .25. They all killed people and defended folks who didn't read gun magazines.

One note to the OP; while a .22 will work fine of you do your part, use only a revolver. Ruger LCR, S&W J frame, and use CCI ammo. I don't know why, but the 'dud' factor seems to shrink a ton with a revolver. I don't know if it's the hammer delivering a heavier blow to the rim or what. Just before the pandemic, I bought a new Ruger LCR in .22lr. To date its had 4,865 rounds through it without a single malfunction. Something I have never experienced with a semi auto. My wife has a S&W 317 since 1998, and she practices regularly, and has zero malfunctions.

Go get a .22 revolver and practice and practice until you're so familiar with it you can shoot it in your sleep. Get to where you can keep a tennis ball moving. You'll be good to go.

 

Every single word in this post is worth reading two or three times.

Been shooting all my life as well, have lived in many different places in the world. There is no place I have been as a civilian that I would have felt unarmed with a .22 and a solid knife. Some countries a civilian can only own a .22 (or at least it was like that back in the day).

Definitely a manually cycled version - I have never trusted auto pistols in rimfire.

 

Absolutely, IMO. Much better than a harsh word, or stern stare. Or, even a knife.

I always have one, as a backup.

IMO, you don't necessarily need a "kill" shot. When a perp realizes you have a gun, and they hear that blast, they have no idea if it's a 22, or 44. They know you're armed and usually flee, based on statistics from US DOJ, FBI, goggle, etc, depending on who you trust to report such things.

Here's one my wife loves. GSG Firefly, aka Sig Mosquito. Basically, a scaled-down 226.

Less than a pair of shoes, or a fancy night out, for most of us.

 

My favorite is a heavy barreled buckmark with a red dot. It is a big, heavy pistol with a comically large sight on top of it, but it is stupidly accurate. With standard velocity or subsonic stuff, it is a laser beam. But due to its size it is awkward to carry, so I will tote it from time to time when small game hunting, but otherwise it just comes to the range.

 

I still work part time to supplement Social Security.
The company has a no weapons policy.
I initially pocket carried my LCPII .380 but the curved bottom on the magazine printed just good enough that a gun person would figure it out. Plus carrying an extra magazine was problematic.
However, my LCPII .22 LR just disappears in my pocket, and with 11 chances on board I don’t bother with a spare mag.

When I’m off duty I carry a .38 or .357 snub plus a PPK.

Actually, we live in a rural small town agricultural environment where violent crime between strangers is almost nil.

 

I carry a big folding knife in my work bag. No guns, immediate termination. The knife, they might say it is too big, but there are big cutters all over, so I have a better chance they just warn me not to bring it.

I might consider hiding an NAA mini revolver in .22 mag/.22 lr if they were more like $100-150 instead of $250-$400.

The car parking lot inside the gate is not exempt from the no guns policy. Though tough to enforce, it's still not worth the risk of high pay job loss considering the really low crime rates here.

Most conceal carry is relatively easy to spot if you know how to look. I consider a Ruger LCP hard to conceal unless I'm dressing dumpy with oversized pants and long oversized shirts. A big percentage won't notice, but many who carry and LE can. It's tougher to carry when wearing proper dress pants/belt and a fitted tucked in shirt. So I looked for a Keltec P32 and have considered smaller vest pocket .25 acp pistols (and the NAA revolvers) just to have something when you need to dress better.

I should have some clothes tailored to fit and make it easier without looking like I got my bigger brothers hand me downs to grow into.

 

Sigh, I have a no anything at all policy at work and I have to pass through a metal detector every time I enter the building. Big, honking pewter belt buckle on a thick leather belt is the best I can do.

 

I don't shoot near as much now,but I'm having a hard time remembering the last 10 years that I had a .22"dud" that wasn't due to a malfunction vs. the primer,but I'm sure it has happened.

I suspect about half the time there is a failure to fire it is a gun problem and not an ammo problem.

Gun used was a Svenson 4 aces in .22 short.

I knew girl who worked in a topless bar who loaned another girl a 2 shot 22 short derringer and she shot a customer with one shot and killed him grave yard dead right were he stood. She spent 5 years in prison and I know nothing about the other girl. She may still be behind bars. And this was around 1980.

I don't know why, but the 'dud' factor seems to shrink a ton with a revolver. I don't know if it's the hammer delivering a heavier blow to the rim or what.

The revolver almost always has a heavier hammer blow and makes it more reliable.

 

If you can fit a 50 round drum on it, then I say go for it. otherwise forget it. If you could just get the person to stand still while you do a head shot you will be all set. An employee was hit 12 times with a 9mm and lived to tell about it.

 

-a 70gr hardcast (20-30 bhn) 32 acp bullet with a wide meplat (0.20" - 0.25") that still cycles moving at 850 fps will penetrate effectively and ruin someones day
-you wouldn't shoot this round all the time to reduce wear on the frame, but use a lower energy round at the range

 

A 90-grain Hornady .309" XTP bullet from steel frame wartime Beretta M1935 at 900 fps, expanding to .40 cal and penetrating 16 inches of calibrated gelatin, with 3 grains of Unique or Autocomp at 20,000 psi is even better! NOT. for Keltec or Beretta Tomcat, as this hot load is a frame cracker in a flimsy pistol.