What penetrates armor is small bore and fast. Big and slow are effectively stopped by most body armor. That is why and 85 grain bullet from a tokarev pistol will go through level 3 but a slug will not. However, anyone who takes a shotgun blast in a soft vest is probably on the floor for a while.

If you fave an armored assailant while you have a shotgun, aim for the junk. You can break a pelvis, blow up an artery, break a leg, shoot off wiener, etc.

 

Shotguns won't go through body armor. Their projectiles don't move fast enough. However soft body armor with a slug will have a similar effect to whacking you full force with a hammer despite it not going through. Against hard armor it's not really going to do anything.

 

Against hard armor it's not really going to do anything.

Having served on tanks many years I can tell you spalling is a real threat. Not necessarily from the armor (possibly) but smashed and shattered bits from the shot. Shot hits armor and goes in all directions. A few up through the chin area or in the foot will spoil someone's day.

 

Back in the early days of Second Chance, Richard Davis used to publish a booklet of "saves." I remember a couple of the pics of cops recovering in the hospital after shotgun hits . Severe/massive brusing, broken ribs, looked painful, but no holes.

Contrast with several OIS's I helped investigate in Honduras when our guards were involved in robberies and hit bad guys with shotguns. You do not want to get shot with a shotgun. If you hit someone center core with buck or a slug at 25 ft, well, they will not be a further threat. Head shot, bring a barf bag.

AR's and PCC's are great. But my goto for most civilian encounters is still my 12ga.

A problem with vests is the rounds have to hit the vest. I've only seen people shot at close range. At 25 yds buck will open up and some pellets will probably bypass the vest, hitting arms, shoulder, pelvis, face. Or getting shot sideways a vest may not be much help.

 

its one of the many reasons I don't use AR500 plates

 

I know I’ll get a few eye rolls on this - watch John Wick 4. There’s a scene of body armored guards taking multiple multiple shotgun rounds to be dispatched.

 

My 12G is the ‘go-to’ weapon at home. I keep it loaded with 3 shells of #8 shot, then 1 slug. The sidesaddle carries exactly the same loads, along with 1 round of Dragons Breath, the last resort!

 

Why small size birdshot? Get some buck in there.

 

12 Ga slug has about 3000 lbs of energy.

That's a hell of a hit.

 

it wont penetrate an inch of sheetrock but you are going to count on it having enough penetration to stop a human??? Interesting!

 

7.5 birdshot will not do much immediate physical damage, just pain. It will not penatrate past the skin and hit vitals in most instances. Where I worked we shot people with birdshot in situations where we did not want to use lethal force.

 

Interesting thoughts.
I've understood using the birdshot method to prevent over-penetrating walls where family members may be.
I'd suppose that the using buckshot would penetrate thru exterior walls of the modern " crackerbox " housing as well.
Unfortunately, one shot may be all you have if you find an intruder, or a home invasion happening.
I'd guess a lawyer would have a field day with non-lethal ammo being used in a self defense situation. ( Obviously no real threat there, but you shot him anyway🙄).

Many things to consider...

 

Do you drill for home invasion or other emergencies with your family? The first rule I gave my kids for any invasive shooter situation Was be the floor. Don't get up until your mother or I give the all clear. First wife was/is a deputy Sheriff. Second Wife, it was just us. Knowing the kids were on the floor meant my center mass shots were no threat to them.

 

Only one kid left in the house, all bedrooms are upstairs. By the time you get through the security door and the dogs, I am pretty sure I will be aiming at an appropriate spot from the stairs or the ground floor.

 

Don't misunderstand my comments, 7.5 birdshot would still be considered using dearly force in a court of law. It just is not a great solution for home defense in most cases. Much like using a 22 cal long rifle round for self defense.

 

As far as penetration, no shotgun rounds will defeat armor, soft or hard. Hard armor there will be marginal effect. Soft armor, although it will stop the projectiles, slugs can deliver life threatening tissue damage. I have heard of steel slugs that could potentially cut through kevlar, but I have no experience with those.

 

If body armored home invaders become common, I will be switching out the 45 and 12 gauge for a tok and an ar.

 

I have a 10.5" AR just for house defense. It's a perfect size especially when running armor.

 

The lethal / non-lethal argument doesn't extend to civilians (aka 2nd class citizens). While prison guards can use birdshot, and cops can use bean bags, etc.. If YOU use a firearm for less than lethal purpose you will be persecuted. Why did you use a firearm when there was no immediate deadly threat?

About the only scenario where a resident might prevail is, "I grabbed my trap/bird gun because it was close by, and shot him with #8 because that is all I had."

 

You can always slip a knife in their hand or close to them. If someone is dumb enough to come into my house, I'm not retreating (VA law) Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Besides, everyone is a threat until proven otherwise. The only thing I'm saying after something like that happens is - I will be more than willing to cooperate with your investigation after I have had an opportunity to speak with my attorney.

 

I would not worry about body armor. If you get shot with a slug in the chest you might not be doing well.

 

Seems like the consensus on slugs vs hard armor is inconclusive.

 

It's absolutely conclusive. The energy will be spread out across the width of the plate which is a larger surface area than your shoulder. It will do less damage to the person hit than the shooter.

Soft armor is different.

 

At inside the room range birdshot is very lethal....

I'm not advocating it for home defense, but it would work.

 

I've had it act like a slug at short range on game, but the range is pretty short and exactly how far out is somewhat unpredictable. Make mine 00 buck.

 

Body armor or not, a Brenneke slug is going to leave a mark. When I was an LEO, it was widely discussed that Brenneke slugs could defeat a Level 2a vest. Defeated or not, the wearer is going down. My duty Benelli was loaded specifically for such scenarios: (3) Estate Low Recoil 00 buckshot, backed by (3) 1-oz Brenneke slugs.