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OP, your opinion on this matter is refreshing, but it's uncommon. The LE establishment in the US is violently anti-militia. I am not a member of anything that resembles a militia in any way, but if I was, I couldn't lift a finger to help in a situation like Baltimore until I had it in writing that the LE wasn't going to turn on me. I'd fight if my own was threatened, but in today's social and political climate, the militia and LEOs are opponents.

And the LEOs are the only ones who can change that. The free militia can not.
 
OP, your opinion on this matter is refreshing, but it's uncommon. The LE establishment in the US is violently anti-militia. I am not a member of anything that resembles a militia in any way, but if I was, I couldn't lift a finger to help in a situation like Baltimore until I had it in writing that the LE wasn't going to turn on me. I'd fight if my own was threatened, but in today's social and political climate, the militia and LEOs are opponents.

And the LEOs are the only ones who can change that. The free militia can not.
Immunity from Federal,State and City criminal law and civil liability then we can talk....Also if I am ever a juror I would always help out a person that stuck their neck out..
 
Immunity from Federal,State and City criminal law and civil liability then we can talk....Also if I am ever a juror I would always help out a person that stuck their neck out..
No, not this. The militia exists to protect the law and the lawful against the lawless. Being in a militia does not entitle you to act with impunity. You're there to DEFEND rights, not trample on them. Regardless of what the other side does, if we fail to maintain our values in the face of their abuses, even if we win, we lose.
 
Armed citizens have no role to play in these small local disturbances as LE will consider them part of the problem.
The usefulness of local militias will come into play in a much larger breakdown of which LE cannot control and is totally overwhelmed by.
 
Well I will stick my neck out here. three years ago we had widespread riots over here. The police and authorities were caught flatfooted and unprepared. There was looting, arson and so on. I was living on a South London public housing estate, the equivalent of a US project.
The night north Croydon burnt a large group of locals gathered at the two main access roads to our estate, obstructed but did not block the roads, made their presence clearly visible and were all keen gardeners, carrying spades, forks and the odd pick axe with a few spare handles. There was no trouble, a few small groups of youth were told to go home and not given an option. The local police drove by, had a chat and were assured that they would not have to worry about our local shops being looted. It was sort of organised by established community figures who suggested a gathering. We had no trouble at all.
After the riots the police hunted down EVERY rioter and looter. CCTV footage, mobile phone footage, witnesses were all used. The courts imposed hard sentences and the message was very clear that the rioters could not get away with it. The knowledge that they would be hunted down has had a huge effect and is a real deterrent for the future. The public, police and courts all combined as well as the media. Photos were published and the leads came pouring in. The riots stopped.

It can be done but there has to be the public and political will to do it.
 
We have to have a rule of law. We have to have somebody assigned to protect it and a system to enforce it. Unless you believe that every individual can govern themselves. Anarchy is constantly threatened by chaos. That's why militias can't be invited into the fray. There is a patch on your arm and/or a badge on your chest that represents that authority. That's why the Mayor of Baltimore should be escorted out of her office post haste for failing to uphold the Constitution and the Laws of the State.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
Immunity from Federal,State and City criminal law and civil liability then we can talk....Also if I am ever a juror I would always help out a person that stuck their neck out..
Immunity isn't an option. Vigilantes performing coup de gras on rioters is unacceptable. That is theb rub with the militia idea. Actions need to stay within prescribed boundaries.

Volunteers would need to reconcile getting turned away repeatedly, or not being used in a front line capacity until trust is established.

My agency jas a lot of volunteers. They have the same issues as sworn officers. They overstep, and sometimes do criminal acts. The promise of immunity isn't appropriate.

Imagine the effect if a couple thousand good cotizens responded in a show up support? Media coverage, and a strong message that the rioters are not supposted.

The idea of being arrested for showing support strikes me as silly. Weren't there several store owners on their rooftops during the LA riots, using rifles on rioters? Were they arrested?

Taking up arms is a huge first step. Voting is a small step. Appearing for jury duty and holding courts and judges accountable is a small step. Assembling is a small step. Start showing an active interest, please.

Granting blanket immunity generates a threat equal to the rioters.
 
Well I will stick my neck out here. three years ago we had widespread riots over here. The police and authorities were caught flatfooted and unprepared. There was looting, arson and so on. I was living on a South London public housing estate, the equivalent of a US project.
The night north Croydon burnt a large group of locals gathered at the two main access roads to our estate, obstructed but did not block the roads, made their presence clearly visible and were all keen gardeners, carrying spades, forks and the odd pick axe with a few spare handles. There was no trouble, a few small groups of youth were told to go home and not given an option. The local police drove by, had a chat and were assured that they would not have to worry about our local shops being looted. It was sort of organised by established community figures who suggested a gathering. We had no trouble at all.
After the riots the police hunted down EVERY rioter and looter. CCTV footage, mobile phone footage, witnesses were all used. The courts imposed hard sentences and the message was very clear that the rioters could not get away with it. The knowledge that they would be hunted down has had a huge effect and is a real deterrent for the future. The public, police and courts all combined as well as the media. Photos were published and the leads came pouring in. The riots stopped.

It can be done but there has to be the public and political will to do it.
The authorities will never be prepared for any major civil unrest we will all be on our own. One should assume that no matter what. History has proven that.
 
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I guess you haven't been following the news.:rolleyes:
What is our population? 330 Million? I think their doing a hell of a job. These things have ALWAYS happened and the difference is the media is exploiting the mistakes made, leaving out major facts and twisting other facts to paint the picture they want. For example. Have you heard that Freddie Greys spine was separated in a car accident way before he was put in a police wagon on the news? No you haven't. They want people to think the Police did it still. Stop letting people tell you what to think and use the brain the Lord gave you.
 
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I was sitting watching that BS happen on cnn.I thought that it would have been a very good time for a drone strike.

After all,these were terrorists in my eyes.
They haven't conditioned the population enough for that yet.
 
I personally have spoken with many members of the Missouri Militia. http://www.missourimilitia.com/ A couple of their members have tried to recruit me more than once. I believe they may be one of the most open and transparent militias that are not formally supported to a government. (But, I haven’t met them all).

I also know a number of members of the local Minute Man organization and the Oath Keepers. A few years ago, both of these groups where very public and had open meetings. After an election about employment ID verification checks, the local paper and liberal groups started a hate and shame campaign to go after their members. They tried to get people fired or boycotted their businesses. (After all, if you are for secure borders or the rule of law, you are a hate monger). Since then, most have moved underground. Acting much like a cell organization than a large group, they have abandoned formal meetings and public events of any kind. They have also dropped affiliation with national organizations and let their websites go static. The most formal meeting one group has had lately was in a gun shop deciding on bulk ammo prices.

Quietly in the shadows is where I will reside, until needed.
 
What is our population? 330 Million? I think their doing a hell of a job. These things have ALWAYS happened and the difference is the media is exploiting the mistakes made, leaving out major facts and twisting other facts to paint the picture they want. For example. Have you heard that Freddie Greys spine was separated in a car accident way before he was put in a police wagon on the news? No you haven't. They want people to think the Police did it still. Stop letting people tell you what to think and use the brain the Lord gave you.
Even IF that is true, it doesn't negate the fact that Freddie Gray should have been put into a medics van instead of a Police van, and taken to the hospital and then charged with whatever it was they were going to charge him with.
 
No, not this. The militia exists to protect the law and the lawful against the lawless. Being in a militia does not entitle you to act with impunity. You're there to DEFEND rights, not trample on them. Regardless of what the other side does, if we fail to maintain our values in the face of their abuses, even if we win, we lose.
I don't need immunity. I just need to know that if my group and I show up to a situation to help, that we aren't immediately going to get drawn down on or hit with OC and Tasers!
 
I don't need immunity. I just need to know that if my group and I show up to a situation to help, that we aren't immediately going to get drawn down on or hit with OC and Tasers!
That's not asking for immunity, that's asking for cooperation. To achieve that requires planning, communication, organization, and training, not just showing up out of the blue, rifle in hand with 1,000 rounds saying "I'm here to help". It ain't gonna happen. You need all of that preparation first which takes time and a lot of work. Otherwise when you just show up you will be arrested because you won't be any help, you'll be in the way and a problem, not a solution.
 
I would like for the Sheriff's Departments to provide occasional training to local militia. I'm not talking about combat SWAT training. I'm talking about basic law classes and such. I'm talking about coordinating with militias what will happen in the event that a large scale situation takes place and the militias are needed. It will help build trust and it will help prevent what the LEOs fear, that militias will start running amok killing people. As long as LE and militias are both upholding rights and laws, there is no reason they can't work together. I'd like some coordination and classes to get on the same page.

It could also help weed out some of the fat, lard-ass basement dweller, mall ninjas who think they're Rambo, but can't walk their fat ass fifteen feet without puffing on an inhaler.
 
Militia leader goes to Sheriff, "Howdy, me and my boys are interested in helping you guys out with the Search and Rescue or Posse teams. We've got some guys that are pretty good with a map and compass." "We have been awfully short handed. Alright, I'll give you a call when we need you. Just don't bring any weapons along." Three months later, call comes in. Militia leader shows up with all his men wearing woodland BDU pants and black t-shirts, tucked in that say "Militia" on the back. The men are polite and respectful. There is a clear chain of command (Even if its one squad leader and ten members). The militia are the last to go and help with clean-up.
Over the following months the Sheriff is greeted with a handshake and a smile whenever he happens upon a militia member in public.
The militia leader next offers to get all of his men CERT certified.
Slowly the militia is viewed as an asset, rather than a liability.
Repeat this process over and over and then, maybe then, the Sheriff requests that the militia provide security at some point.
 
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