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Gone Galt
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Discussion Starter #1
What are you thoughts on ideal bug-in firearms?

Bugging in has special considerations, and one big one seems to be availability of storage for bulky ammo and lots of it.

Does this bring the shotgun back into the game? Maybe an auto-loader, with pump as a back-up?

How about handguns? - Bigger is better, if you don't have to conceal?


What are your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.
 

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American fearmaker
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Get some dvds on tactical shotguns. That should be your first research method. Then think about getting a couple of tactical 20 gauge shotguns in the Remington 870 pump shotgun with extended magazines. I know that some people will knock the idea of using a 20 gauge shotgun but they DO WORK and they work without all the recoil problems associated with the 12 gauges. Tactical shotguns should have rifle sights, a sling on them, extended magazines and a decent stock. The pump action shotguns are generally a little more reliable than the auto-loaders.

Next you should have a decent set of pistols on hand and a medium caliber rifle of some sort. The rifle should have some sort of tactical scope or red dot sight on it to enhance the shooting accuracy of the rifle. Your pistols should probably be something akin to the Ruger revolvers in .357 magnum loaded with .38 special ammo or a good Glock of some sort. I prefer to have my students use either the 9 mm or .45 caliber models.
 

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HMFIC
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theres no reason you shouldnt have a rifle or several when staying in. if you plan on staying wherever you live throughout the fall, you should have every possible gun you can afford and find, and as much ammo as you can possibly buy/store.

your location may affect weapon choices to a point. if you live in montana, texas, any of the plain states where you can actually see for 500+ yards, a full size 308 battle rifle, coupled with a scoped bolt/auto would be ideal. in anything more urban, those big, long, heavy guns would hurt more then help, and a nice M4 type will do fine.
as far as makes/calibers, its personal preference, cost, and legality.

EVERY weapon loadout should always have a 12ga pump shotgun. theyre easy to find, inexpensive, easy to use, incredibly reliable, and tremendous power. the added versatility is another major factor. with the same gun you can take everything from small game (squirrels, rabbits, etc), to birds/waterfowl, to medium/large game (deer, bear, hogs, etc), and still have an excellent self defense gun.
 

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Defending a bug in location is risky. You loose mobility and give it to the agressor(s). Which is never a good thing. That said. My approach is layered, M1A for distance (200+ yards), AK/AR for intermediate distance 25-200 Yards), shotgun and pistol/revolver for close range (0-25 Yards).

Nothing hard and fast as to the fiream selection, A bolt action 30-06 etc. or FN/FAL could be used for distance. the AR/AK are interchangeable, lever actions or M1 carbines could also be used for intermediate distance. Close in a pump shotgun and hicap pistol is probably about as good as it gets.

There is overlap as distance closes, yet not the other way around. The M1A overlaps the AK/AR intermediate distance, the AK/AR overlaps the shotgun/pistol close distance.

This is just one method of determining which firearms to select to defend your castle, there are other methods. Bear in mind the firearms I mentioned are as example only. I'm not trying to spark a gun/cal/ammo vs debate here...Just describing one of many methods a person could use to select firearms for a bug in scenario.
 

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What are you thoughts on ideal bug-in firearms?

Bugging in has special considerations, and one big one seems to be availability of storage for bulky ammo and lots of it.

Does this bring the shotgun back into the game? Maybe an auto-loader, with pump as a back-up?

How about handguns? - Bigger is better, if you don't have to conceal?


What are your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.
To me, the ideal bug-in weapon is a .308 semi-auto. I know for a lot of people, that would be thier bug-out weapon also, but to me, if I have to travel, I'm taking a LW 5.56mm chambered weapon for weight and ammunition considerations.

I'd also keep a scoped bolt rifle up during daylight in a concealed overwatch postion.

If you're bugging-in there's no reason not to have a shotgun. I don't think it's a primary weapon unless you have some AO specific reason to use one though.

Also, while I don't think that if I'm bugging out I'd care how big my handgun was, if open carrying, there are definate advantages to a FS framed gun, and I'd definately have one on my person at all times vs. a compact if I had the choice.
 

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Peter is right -it depends on terrain. I think the 12 gauge solves every problem, except when youre staying put in the middle of Kansas. Then I'd reach for my Remington 700 in 30-06.
 

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watcher
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Defending the fort?
If it really gets down to the ranges of shotguns and pistols, against a large opposing force, you're knee-deep in stinkmud.
Assuming you were able to strike first, and "win a round", unless you have ALL points of your domicile covered, with multiple shooters, you'll likely be overan within an hour.
An apartment, like a cave, would be a death trap.

Put yourself in an attackers mind set. Just think how easily 5 or 6 guys with hi-cap SKS's, Mini's, or AK's could advance on a location.
3 or 4 holding down suppressive fire from different locations, in rapid 3 round bursts from cover, 1 or 2 others closing...


Still, you have to do something..,

handgun/carbine within same caliber would be my first go to combo. With a shoulder bag full of mag's or loose ammo.

Shotguns at various entry points. Some long barreled, some short, some very short.
I'd switch to one of these at night.

AK,SKS,Mini,AR, etc. for longer range. Hi cap, high rate of fire for longer range, assuming you have longer range shots.

Don't forget the ear plugs.
 

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Depends what home is. Shotgun is a good one there. I use semi-autos. I have 2 years of shooting 75-125 rounds a week in my 1187 in 12 gauge. Not one problem at all. Folks who say semi-auto shotguns are unreliable don't own one. They are the most popular type of shotgun in 3 gun competitions.

whatever cartridge is suitable for big game hunting in your area is fine for home duty. Some places need long ranges, other dont as much.

Handguns. Some folks really think the biggest thing is the best. A sufficient caliber you can shoot well is what you need. A 9mm in a vital area is better than a 45 in a arm. Some folks really like a small gun. I have seen a fair share of compacts that people can't shoot worth a darn. 4 or 5" full sized pistol is a wise choice.
 

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Proverbs 26:4
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If you are bugging in then it would be best to have as many different types of guns as you can afford. With lots of ammo to go along with them.

Shot guns are always a good home defense tool. After that I would go with an AK. You are definitely going to want something that can punch through cover and is easy to shoot. Then a good supply of handguns is in order in case the attackers would get too close.

I would like to address something that seems to be a common thought. As was stated earlier if you are bugging in you are at a disadvantage as far as movement. WHY? why are you at a disadvantage? People always assume that attackers will come at you in the night while you are in the house asleep. That may not be the case at all. Let's face it, statistically speaking, most attackers will be unprepared and ill equipped. They will not be able to sight in on anything at night they don't know the terrain like you do. You can move around just as much as they do, even move to turn the table on them and make them play your game.
 

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I live near the top of a 30 floor highrise.
I am at the end of the hall and there are two stairwells

My plan is to block both elevators and both stairwell doors.
Weapons are 2 remington 1100's and Mossberg 500.
Also have other weapons to back them up
 

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watcher
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I would like to address something that seems to be a common thought. As was stated earlier if you are bugging in you are at a disadvantage as far as movement. WHY? why are you at a disadvantage? People always assume that attackers will come at you in the night while you are in the house asleep. That may not be the case at all. Let's face it, statistically speaking, most attackers will be unprepared and ill equipped. They will not be able to sight in on anything at night they don't know the terrain like you do. You can move around just as much as they do, even move to turn the table on them and make them play your game.

Why would you say that? Would YOU approach an house unprepared? I doubt it. Wouldn't you hide and observe, then form an attack?
Planning for a wall of idiots to walk towards your house 4 abreast and 4 deep, just begging to be shot is dangerous.

One disadvantage is once they know "youre home", well,...then they KNOW where you are:Home. The room youre in is sort of moot. Cover the exits.
The windows are long history by now. Can't protect all of them from "cocktails".

If your defending your home, there is no way you can move around as much. If I'm understanding you correctly. THEY can leave and get reinforcements, breaching equipment(old dump truck, dozer,..), etc.

If you are defending your home from a determined group, I assure you, you'll be playing their game.

I spend as much time thinking like an attacker, as a defender. How can I breach my own security.
 

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Opinionated old fart.
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If you are defending your home from inside and there is ZERO chance of needing to take over 200 yard shots, go with a compact AK47. The need for several sidearms is equal to needing a rifle in case of in-room fighting. With in-room fighting (CQB), a large caliber, large capacity pistol is your best tool.

I'd go with (several) Glock 21's and (several) AK47s. When you go outside, the need for larger caliber and more accuracy skyrockets.

p.s. If you are arming to defend your home, the most important thing is that each defender is fully armed. So if money is a problem, four SKS's with four users is better than two AK's and two defenders watching.
 

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I stand alone!
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I understand the question but I'm of the opinion that you arm the same for bug-in or bug-out....
In any crisis things are fluid and can change quickly... So even the most ardent supporter of bugging in with the family in their rural community has to have plans to bug-out.
With this in in mind I would arm the same unless you have the money to buy weapons for both.
I think carbines offer the most in most situations... Are lite, portable, can reach out yet are small enough for home defense work....
 

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American fearmaker
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Bugging in may be an only option for people who have sick family members. If you have a sick kid who can't take cold air or live without an air pump your options are pretty slim. Try to move a sick kid into a survival mode of living and you're pretty much going to have a dead person on your hands. I can see where some people may not want to abandon their homes or apartments in some cases. For any close range engagement a decent shotgun backed up by a medium or big bore pistol may be their most powerful form of defense available to them. That's why I say a Remington 870 in 20 gauge for a primary firearm and good pistol as a secondary firearm. Any rifle is used outside of the primary defense area.
 

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Basics. Rifle, pistol, shotgun. Shotgun does not do a good job killing vehicles, where a powerful rifle (.30-06 or similar) will handle a modern car engine with little fuss. Short shotgun (and 20 gauge is fine for this) is good indoor medicine.
 

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Gone Galt
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Discussion Starter #16
Let me clarify a bit.

I did not mean bug-in as in literally huddled in the house 24 hours a day.

(In my house, I'd pack a handgun. Shooting a rifle indoors seems crazy to me. Even a shotgun would be a nightmare indoors IMHO)

I mean more of a local area. Like organizing your neighborhood. But the key is that you have your residence near by for shelter and re-supply.



I've got .308 calling my name at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding a platform I'd like to try first.

The Kel Tec RFB looks nice because of it's short compact size, but I've wanted a Scoped bolt .308 for a while as well.

I might just go "old west" and get a Marlin 336 lever in 30-30...
 

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Proverbs 26:4
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Why would you say that? Would YOU approach an house unprepared? I doubt it. Wouldn't you hide and observe, then form an attack?
Planning for a wall of idiots to walk towards your house 4 abreast and 4 deep, just begging to be shot is dangerous.

One disadvantage is once they know "youre home", well,...then they KNOW where you are:Home. The room youre in is sort of moot. Cover the exits.
The windows are long history by now. Can't protect all of them from "cocktails".

If your defending your home, there is no way you can move around as much. If I'm understanding you correctly. THEY can leave and get reinforcements, breaching equipment(old dump truck, dozer,..), etc.

If you are defending your home from a determined group, I assure you, you'll be playing their game.

I spend as much time thinking like an attacker, as a defender. How can I breach my own security.
Funny, how is it that these hungry, tired and desperate sheeple that were too stupid and lazy to see the writing on the wall and prepare themselves are suddenly transformed into uber black-ops recon - special forces fighters, armed with a shotgun and five shells, willing and smart enough to case my area unnoticed and coordinate an attack on me and my neighborhood?

-And don't tell me they are going to burn me out. That would be the height of stupidity for them. What would anyone gain by burning the the very things you are after?

Let me clarify a bit.

I did not mean bug-in as in literally huddled in the house 24 hours a day.

(In my house, I'd pack a handgun. Shooting a rifle indoors seems crazy to me. Even a shotgun would be a nightmare indoors IMHO)

I mean more of a local area. Like organizing your neighborhood. But the key is that you have your residence near by for shelter and re-supply.



I've got .308 calling my name at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding a platform I'd like to try first.

The Kel Tec RFB looks nice because of it's short compact size, but I've wanted a Scoped bolt .308 for a while as well.

I might just go "old west" and get a Marlin 336 lever in 30-30...
It's been said here many times that if you are going to fire even a handgun inside it should be a .45 due to it's low pressure. Even if you have hearing protection you need to consider the other people in your house too. Hopefully you will never have to fire anything inside your house...

A .308 is a very fine rifle and I believe that everyone should have at least one rifle capable of reaching out to and possibly beyond 300 yards. Can't go wrong with a 30-30 lever action either, it has always been my favorite rifle since I was a kid.
 

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watcher
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Funny, how is it that these hungry, tired and desperate sheeple that were too stupid and lazy to see the writing on the wall and prepare themselves are suddenly transformed into uber black-ops recon - special forces fighters, armed with a shotgun and five shells, willing and smart enough to case my area unnoticed and coordinate an attack on me and my neighborhood?

-And don't tell me they are going to burn me out. That would be the height of stupidity for them. What would anyone gain by burning the the very things you are after?


It's been said here many times that if you are going to fire even a handgun inside it should be a .45 due to it's low pressure. Even if you have hearing protection you need to consider the other people in your house too. Hopefully you will never have to fire anything inside your house...

A .308 is a very fine rifle and I believe that everyone should have at least one rifle capable of reaching out to and possibly beyond 300 yards. Can't go wrong with a 30-30 lever action either, it has always been my favorite rifle since I was a kid.

Assume everyone is a weary blundering fool but you. Yep, great strategy.
Thats won countless wars.
You'll do well.

There are sheeple true, but they'll be gone soon enough most likely.
Then there are the sort-of sheeple, with some preps. Gone.
Then there are the borderline prepared. Eh, maybe.
Then there are those that are prepared, but decide after SHTF they want what you have.

Oh, I meant a diversionary fire. A couple of kerosene fruit jars would keep your mind busy for the 30seconds it'd take 3 or 4 people to breach your defenses.
 

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pesonelly the #1 weapon i would get is a pistol. it is extremely unlikely we will see a mad max scenario. there are greater odds that the gov/LEO will still be in control after most all SHTF scenarios.so going anywhere you need to keep your weapon concealed. you will need a weapon at all times and you can have a pistol on you always.its going to be hard to take a shotgun to the grocery store.

a shotgun is just fine as well as a rifle to def your home. but you still need the pistol when your out and about.
 
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