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Born 120 years too late.
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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
OK.. since there have been a few folks positioning themselves as to what they would or would not do....

You have figured out what you need to do to survive the coming storm. You are transporting your goods along with all your family and other associates supplies, and your primary hauling vehicle breaks down.

Just down the road from you you find the perfect vehicle you would need to carry on.
But, it is owned by someone else, it is sitting in the guy's yard and he is calmly sitting on the porch.
You ask him if he has plans for his vehicle to get away, but he says no. "It is a sign from the creator that we should all perish for our wickedness." You ask him can you buy or borrow the vehicle because while he does not plan on using it , if you could have it it could save many lives and help you carry on. He says he will not help others to survive the plague. You beg and cajole and even threaten, but he is adamant, even though he will do nothing with it, he refuses to help you to save you and yours.

Without that vehicle all your plans are ruined and you and yours will probably die.
You can take it without using force as the guy says he won't try to stop you but he says you will be stealing from him what is his and you have no right to it. and you will have sinned some more if you do take it.

Take it and preserve life
or
not take it and die from the horror

your call...
 

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Well, giving up is never the solution.

The alternative to giving up is to keep trying.

So .. I guess I'd take that option, cling to the hope that things aren't as bad as they might seem, and do what I can to keep my family alive.

Maybe the zombies will die from exposure to the elements and predation from animals? Maybe I won't have to hold off that many, at least not too long, out here in the boonies? Our roads are in such bad shape that maybe they'll all break their ankles in pot-holes on the way here, or fall into ditches and get caught in blackberry bramble ;-)

Not that I'd want to depend on blind luck, but in the end that's all we have in any situation: hope that between preps and luck we'll live to see another day.
They will go to work on each other. And when things collapse China or Russia will secure our nukes for us.
 

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OK.. since there have been a few folks positioning themselves as to what they would or would not do....

You have figured out what you need to do to survive the coming storm. You are transporting your goods along with all your family and other associates supplies, and your primary hauling vehicle breaks down.

Just down the road from you you find the perfect vehicle you would need to carry on.
But, it is owned by someone else, it is sitting in the guy's yard and he is calmly sitting on the porch.
You ask him if he has plans for his vehicle to get away, but he says no. "It is a sign from the creator that we should all perish for our wickedness." You ask him can you buy or borrow the vehicle because while he does not plan on using it , if you could have it it could save many lives and help you carry on. He says he will not help others to survive the plague. You beg and cajole and even threaten, but he is adamant, even though he will do nothing with it, he refuses to help you to save you and yours.

Without that vehicle all your plans are ruined and you and yours will probably die.
You can take it without using force as the guy says he won't try to stop you but he says you will be stealing from him what is his and you have no right to it. and you will have sinned some more if you do take it.

Take it and preserve life
or
not take it and die from the horror

your call...
Kinda silly, as I wouldn't threaten anyone. As I wouldn't take to being threatened in similar situation "kindly".

However, given as presented. Borrow it.
 
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What would Mal do
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"10 summers" wow! first off, and seriously, well done sir...you worked for your goal.
My 10 summers? more time on the boat with the kids/grandkids and my list goes on long... running a business, etc..Might sound like the ant and the grasshopper, but i guess the point is, I don't care to survive , nor do i prep to survive that long term zombie endgame thing. My preps proved themselves through this past year of panic-demic, it's proved itself through hurricanes and ice storms, and physical injury downtime. But that's as far as i go. Endgame comes for us all at some point.. I'm enjoying the time here on this planet.
I do appreciate the posts here...provides some solid ideas to boost my own preps a bit. but, I see ICBMs starting to fly overhead... I'll just pause and give thanks for the days I've been given, kiss the wife and call it a day.
 

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Storyteller
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LOL

YOU SIMPLY cannot have prepped enough ..THE END GAME...

A BIBLICAL type plague slowly will sweep the planet. A rabies spin off is turning people into mindless attacking hoards of rampaging loonies, who are bent on attacking anything that moves. The infection can be spread by any contact with any infected bodily fluids. The result of infection is virtually the same as the zombie plagues of stage and screen.

There are going to be maybe a couple BILLION or more plague infested creatures running about. Some countries may even resort to nukes. And projections are so long as they can find food, whatever it may be they could live for years.

The result.. you will never have enough ammo saved to keep them at bay nor will you have enough food stored nor able to have the opportunity to plant and harvest your crops. You will need to have years behind an unbreechable compound and potentially millions of rounds of ammo...if they find you and the odds are great they will.

You will have maybe 2-3 months at best if you live in CONUS to do whatever you will need to do to survive past the extent of your present preps. THe plague will sweep in from across the Atlantic Ocean after it sweeps Asia and Europe, so you will have more time than those other nations. It may take a year before it gets to Tierra Del Fuego.


You CAN SAY..Why bother and decide to go out in a ball of flame and glory as you re-enact John Wayne in the last scene from THE ALAMO... or Capt. V.J. Dax of STARSHIP TROOPERS 2.

OR
try to make your BOL and preps last as planned and hope for the best

OR
have you actually prepped for the almost unthinkable?

What options are there to survive and continue a life during and then after the APOC.

THIS is an exercise in thinking beyond all your foreseen possibilities.
or,
how good are you thinking outside of your comfort zone?

hint..
my version is pretty drastic.
Folks once upon a time really did 'prep for the end of civilization' - because they were moving to or even past the frontier.

Their INCH bags looked like this

Big wagons, most of these were designed to carry a lot

The Conestoga wagon was built with its floor curved upward to prevent the contents from tipping and shifting. Including its tongue, the average Conestoga wagon was 18 feet (5.4 m) long, 11 feet (3.3 m) high, and 4 feet (1.2 m) in width. It could carry up to 12,000 pounds (5,400 kg) of cargo.

A roughly Modern equivalent?

not as tall, but wider... Will carry far more weight.
 

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Over and Out
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OK, so.. a) just for 'clarity' / to be sure we're not misunderstanding, here...

OK.. since there have been a few folks positioning themselves as to what they would or would not do....

Take it and preserve life
or
not take it and die from the horror
..So.. your "proposed solutIon" (that you're 'surprised no one has posted') is... 'when SHTF, I'm coming to Your house'?? :unsure: Just seeking clarity, here.. And, b)

...your primary hauling vehicle breaks down.
Just down the road from you you find the perfect vehicle you would need to carry on...
...Well, then it sounds like the person in this example Didn't Prep Enough.. I mean, Unless we're talking 'your BOV / stuff gets taken out by a hellfire shot from a drone', or you accidentally drive it over an 800' ravine, etc - You Should Be 'prepped' to get yerself back up / running.. :cool:

..Then, there's no Need to 'blow the old guy off his porch / take his truck' (which wouldn't provide any 'Guarantee' that That vehicle wouldn't also crap out on ya - and then you Definitely 'don't (likely) have spare parts for'..)

If, however, you're simply preaching 'kill or Be killed', well.. Like Rock6 posted, that's a different scenario, but.. Maybe you can clarify some more.. (y)

.03
jd
 

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Tested in the Wilderness
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"10 summers" wow! first off, and seriously, well done sir...you worked for your goal.
My 10 summers? more time on the boat with the kids/grandkids and my list goes on long... running a business, etc..Might sound like the ant and the grasshopper, but i guess the point is, I don't care to survive , nor do i prep to survive that long term zombie endgame thing. My preps proved themselves through this past year of panic-demic, it's proved itself through hurricanes and ice storms, and physical injury downtime. But that's as far as i go. Endgame comes for us all at some point.. I'm enjoying the time here on this planet.
I do appreciate the posts here...provides some solid ideas to boost my own preps a bit. but, I see ICBMs starting to fly overhead... I'll just pause and give thanks for the days I've been given, kiss the wife and call it a day.
I'm not 100% certain but mostly certain that you, bighanded, posted that to me since I have not seen anyone else post about "10 summers" Those were the summers from 1995 when I began digging the large hole for the underground shelter to 2005 or so when I mostly finished building. I still have much more to build if I wish such as a large greenhouse even a greenhouse with a fairly nice cabin. And maybe build more but will see.

I bought my land in the summer of 1987 and have spent at least 25 summers up there the last two years from June to Nov. 30th. So I have done much much more than simply ten summers. And I won't go into detail about what I have done in 25 summers on my mtn place / retreat / BOL soon to be much more than that. Just say that I have done mostly what I have dreamed about doing when I was young. From camping, to hiking, doing all kinds of survival and so much more.

I have also had more than twenty visitors to my mtn place since 1987 and enjoyed most of those visitors and they also enjoyed my mtn area. I have chosen a very different life from most Americans and I never married but I have had and still have a lady friend or two. I also chose to not have children for several reasons which I won't go into. And I also never wanted a business to worry about and be stuck in one area or a city or just what I consider not being so Free.

I have written that I have tried to prepare for nuclear war and I think I have with the underground shelter and all the good info I could find mainly from this book > www.oism.org/nwss BUT I mainly prepare for Living on my mtn retreat buying what gear, food and other supplies I need and even have enough for at least two years without going to town if necessary.

Even IF nothing bad ever happens again and just go on and on then I will still be happy and just enjoy more and more Nature and my different lifestyle in the remote Rocky Mtns. I never feel so Free as I do now here in WY except the 25 plus summers on my land and some years before 1987 when I was traveling much and experiencing plenty from big cities to the most remote wilderness

I enjoy the wild and all of Nature and fishing more than other sports. And fishing in possibly the most beautiful best trout fishing anywhere.

In many areas of WY and I am sure in most remote areas we hardly notice the pandemic unless we turned on the tv or went to a store.
Even if some big cities get nuked I and others in remote areas may not even know it has occurred or if we do then we Will do all that is necessary to keep surviving and Thriving and will still go on such as this >
361418


361419
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
THINGS BREAK... no matter how much service and prep we try to allow for.
It is no ones fault. There are thousands of parts on vehicles, you cannot have one of everything or you would simply have ANOTHER vehicle along with you. You do NOT. You cannot fix your main cargo carrier.

IT IS simple, you will need his vehicle to survive.
He will not sell/barter/give it to you but he also will not try to use force to keep you from taking it.
You even offer to take him away with you to safety.. he says NOPE.
All you have to do is get in, turn the key and drive away.
you take it , you should live
you do not take it, you probably will not.
Whatever you choose it will not effect the owner's outcome either way as he has already made his decision to become zombie chow.

Me, I will be up front and say I would take it, no question about it. There is a reason for Darwin Awards. He is definitely a candidate, I am not.
 

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..Me, I will be up front and say I would take it, no question about it. There is a reason for Darwin Awards. He is definitely a candidate, I am not.
Understand better, and Agree.. If you don't have to murder 'im to get it, well.. If he wants to 'go Harry Truman' (that's Harry R. Truman, mind you, not Harry S. :geek: ..well then <shrug>

So, in summary: You advocate having / developing the cahones to Take what You cannot take (simply Too Much stuff, ultimately..) and/or what breaks / you cannot Replace - as the 'End Game' solution in survivalism? Again, just tweeking up the 'fine tuning dial', here, before giving further response..

.04
jd
 

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Swirl Herder
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OK.. since there have been a few folks positioning themselves as to what they would or would not do....

You have figured out what you need to do to survive the coming storm. You are transporting your goods along with all your family and other associates supplies, and your primary hauling vehicle breaks down.

Just down the road from you you find the perfect vehicle you would need to carry on.
But, it is owned by someone else, it is sitting in the guy's yard and he is calmly sitting on the porch.
You ask him if he has plans for his vehicle to get away, but he says no. "It is a sign from the creator that we should all perish for our wickedness." You ask him can you buy or borrow the vehicle because while he does not plan on using it , if you could have it it could save many lives and help you carry on. He says he will not help others to survive the plague. You beg and cajole and even threaten, but he is adamant, even though he will do nothing with it, he refuses to help you to save you and yours.

Without that vehicle all your plans are ruined and you and yours will probably die.
You can take it without using force as the guy says he won't try to stop you but he says you will be stealing from him what is his and you have no right to it. and you will have sinned some more if you do take it.

Take it and preserve life
or
not take it and die from the horror

your call...
Get the vehicle you might need now - that is what a survivalist/prepper would do (since you apparently don't know that).

Mobility is just another survivalism capability (and has been talked about enough for people to know that).

The idea that you don't need to get what you need now (ie do some real prepping)........because you will appropriate the property of others after the crisis has broken, is another one of those copouts that non-survivalists (ie people with normalcy bias) use to justify their decision to not get resources now.

You can fantasize about how people won't put up a fight while you borrow their gear/supplies all you want.......but if you get in a really bad crisis, then what you have is what you have.

You can twist and turn around the morality of taking what belongs to other people all you like - but if that is your plan, then you are much more likely to get your head blown off in the real version of how that would go down.

Anyone who is relying upon you to take care of them in a very severe crisis would also be similarly doomed.

These anti-survivalism threads get old.

This one should be moved to the raider thread in the dark side (with all the rest).
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
Get the vehicle you might need now - that is what a survivalist/prepper would do (since you apparently don't know that).

Mobility is just another survivalism capability (and has been talked about enough for people to know that).

The idea that you don't need to get what you need now (ie do some real prepping)........because you will appropriate the property of others after the crisis has broken, is another one of those copouts that non-survivalists (ie people with normalcy bias) use to justify their decision to not get resources now.

You can fantasize about how people won't put up a fight while you borrow their gear/supplies all you want.......but if you get in a really bad crisis, then what you have is what you have.

You can twist and turn around the morality of taking what belongs to other people all you like - but if that is your plan, then you are much more likely to get your head blown off in the real version of how that would go down.

Anyone who is relying upon you to take care of them in a very severe crisis would also be similarly doomed.

These anti-survivalism threads get old.

This one should be moved to the raider thread in the dark side (with all the rest).

THIS is NOT a raider thread

This is not about not knowing what to take or not

This is a THINKING thread.

How well do you think past your preconceived notions and beliefs?

DO you ever read the whole thread?

NO WHERE did I state I base my survival on raiding.

Others were expressing thoughts on the morality of do's and don'ts of survival\

This whole broke vehicle conversation has to do with seeing whether people have really contemplated all the things they may be faced with, including such an insignificant decision as to whether to take the truck or not. Whether you do or do not, the outcome for the OWNER does not change, you have not harmed him or hurt him or done him damage in any way whether you take it or not.
BUT
your decision may or may not increase your risk of killing those you are with, or not killing those you are with.

Since you are absolutely positively 100% sure that in the wildest of possibilities you will never have to make that kind of decision... good for you. NOt that many people are that secure in a possible world ending event.
 
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Swirl Herder
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..........

This is a THINKING thread.

............
Yes - thinking like someone with Normalcy Bias.

That is why others have already questioned the morality of what you mean by:

by whatever means it requires
by whatever means it takes...
apparently everything except getting well prepared in advance.......

How well do you think past your preconceived notions and beliefs?
Very well actually - I have abnormalcy bias - so I have a lifetime's experience at looking past the preconceived notions and beliefs of the vast majority of my own species.
 

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..This is a THINKING thread.... How well do you think past your preconceived notions and beliefs?
..
...a) That's where the Adaptation side of surviving will come in, which is usually best born-from / honed thru Experience - But, still - again.. 'Fortune Favors the Prepared'.. So.. Perhaps, indeed (since, again, even in your example, there, taking 'Harry's truck would Still be no Guarantee of success (what if That breaks down? That's Entirely realistic a possibility..) the best thing to do would be to - Now - while you still Can - better ensure your 'convoy plan' is near 100% bulletproof, both literally, and figuratively.. ie: Only ONE vehicle, Able to carry-all in the Groups caravan is, well.. rather 'thin' a plan..

..but, again - sure - if your ENTIRE Convoy is ambushed / missiled off a bridge, well.. Ya, then yer gonna have to 'do some quick, creative thinking', a la your 'Harry' example..

.05
jd
 

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THIS is NOT a raider thread

This is not about not knowing what to take or not

This is a THINKING thread.

How well do you think past your preconceived notions and beliefs?

DO you ever read the whole thread?

NO WHERE did I state I base my survival on raiding.

Others were expressing thoughts on the morality of do's and don'ts of survival\

This whole broke vehicle conversation has to do with seeing whether people have really contemplated all the things they may be faced with, including such an insignificant decision as to whether to take the truck or not. Whether you do or do not, the outcome for the OWNER does not change, you have not harmed him or hurt him or done him damage in any way whether you take it or not.
BUT
your decision may or may not increase your risk of killing those you are with, or not killing those you are with.

Since you are absolutely positively 100% sure that in the wildest of possibilities you will never have to make that kind of decision... good for you. NOt that many people are that secure in a possible world ending event.
Yah but, you threatened the guy...
 

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What would Mal do
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nice post Mike..thanks for sharing such a great perspective on prepping and living. Like you, I chose to move out to the country a bit about 17yrs ago. I almost felt a bit guilty last year as so much of the world was suffering in lock down, not allowed to even go to their local park for a walk, etc. If we didn't turn on the TV, we'd not be feeling the panic at my place. Preps were well stocked and we ate normally all year. My kids and grandkids were able to come here to enjoy the large playground we built for them, to enjoy our pool when the neighborhood pools were closed, to enjoy fishing on our pond, walking/riding the trails in my woods, and even when the governor closed the public boat ramps, we had private access to the lake. Working remote for my day job meant that life here has been very enjoyable throughout this whole panic-demic. Wisdom from guys like you on this forum over the years helped me get my head into the game, get my closets properly stocked, freezer full and yes, a years supply of toilet paper even already on hand (grin). And again, not NOT knocking your prep level..I just am admitting that I pull off the road in terms of preps when it comes to planning for that end of the world Mad Maxx or The Postman type scenarios..life has been good, has been enjoyed, not looking to survive a nuclear winter.
 

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nice post Mike..thanks for sharing such a great perspective on prepping and living. Like you, I chose to move out to the country a bit about 17yrs ago. I almost felt a bit guilty last year as so much of the world was suffering in lock down, not allowed to even go to their local park for a walk, etc. If we didn't turn on the TV, we'd not be feeling the panic at my place. Preps were well stocked and we ate normally all year. My kids and grandkids were able to come here to enjoy the large playground we built for them, to enjoy our pool when the neighborhood pools were closed, to enjoy fishing on our pond, walking/riding the trails in my woods, and even when the governor closed the public boat ramps, we had private access to the lake. Working remote for my day job meant that life here has been very enjoyable throughout this whole panic-demic. Wisdom from guys like you on this forum over the years helped me get my head into the game, get my closets properly stocked, freezer full and yes, a years supply of toilet paper even already on hand (grin). And again, not NOT knocking your prep level..I just am admitting that I pull off the road in terms of preps when it comes to planning for that end of the world Mad Maxx or The Postman type scenarios..life has been good, has been enjoyed, not looking to survive a nuclear winter.
Thanks for that bighanded. I seem to have big hands also but great post. If you are ever in southern WY then hope you might stop by my mtn place and from July first to mid Oct. is usually the warmest most snow free time up there.

I must answer when you posted this though> " not looking to survive a nuclear winter " In this chapter of the NWSSkills book / www.oism.org/nwss and this chapter > Ch. 1: The Dangers from Nuclear Weapons: Myths and Facts - Nuclear War Survival Skills

Here is the answer to the fallacy and even propaganda which most seem to believe and the myth and facts about nuclear winter > "
Myth: Unsurvivable "nuclear winter" surely will follow a nuclear war. The world will be frozen if only 100 megatons (less than one percent of all nuclear weapons) are used to ignite cities. World-enveloping smoke from fires and the dust from surface bursts will prevent almost all sunlight and solar heat from reaching the earth's surface. Universal darkness for weeks! Sub-zero temperatures, even in summertime! Frozen crops, even in the jungles of South America! Worldwide famine! Whole species of animals and plants exterminated! The survival of mankind in doubt!


° Facts:
Unsurvivable "nuclear winter" is a discredited theory that, since its conception in 1982, has been used to frighten additional millions into believing that trying to survive a nuclear war is a waste of effort and resources, and that only by ridding the world of almost all nuclear weapons do we have a chance of surviving.


Non-propagandizing scientists recently have calculated that the climatic and other environmental effects of even an all-out nuclear war would be much less severe than the catastrophic effects repeatedly publicized by popular astronomer Carl Sagan and his fellow activist scientists, and by all the involved Soviet scientists. Conclusions reached from these recent, realistic calculations are summarized in an article, "Nuclear Winter Reappraised" "

And if you and almost anyone else happen to get to Riverside, WY next to Encampment then just stop by the RIverside garage / cabin store where they also have old but somewhat nice real cabins. And they all know me and can likely tell you how to get to my mtn place.





 

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Born 120 years too late.
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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
Yah but, you threatened the guy...

YOU threatened the guy.
I didn't.

I am not the person trying to save my butt because of a mechanical breakdown.
Besides
IF
and that is a HUGE IF
I were the one in that position,
once the guy made his case that he was never going to give it up no matter what but he also would not raise a hand to stop me
I would have taken it without the threats. They would not be needed
BUT

I am going to NEVER be that guy because my out plan does not require such things.
 
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