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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been a survivalist since I was about 15, so a good decade this year. Being prepared is so critical, especially nowadays, when the world is so interconnected that a fart in France slaughters the stock market in South Africa. The more I read, however, the more I find the need to grow a new breed of survivalist.

The typical idea nowadays is something that could be called "Defenseive Survival", wherein one gets a retreat, stocks it, and holds out against attackers should SHTF. The problem here is that defenders gain no ground, and be it by time, exhaustion, or force, even the most committed defender will eventually be eradicated as continual survival depends on growth. The Revolutionaries did not win the freedom of America by only holding the line. They pressed against their attackers (remember Washington crossing the Delaware?).

I still commit myself to preparation, but for a different goal, not to merely maintain, but rebuild, and to liberate. I've always been called an idealist, and I'm sure one day my ideals will punch my ticket to meet my Maker. But I am a Christian man, and I have found nothing in the Bible to say my only responsibility is to guard my own. I understand having my own safe and established is important, but "whatever I do for the least of these" still applies.

So, am I no longer a Survivalist? I do not know. I suppose the term would no longer apply, as my survival would be second to the protection of home, hearth, and country, and all those who love this land. Perhaps I am still a survivalist, but just a different variety. I hope my ideals don't get me booted from this site.

I don't think there's a site called freedomfighterboards.
 

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Live Secret, Live Happy
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I suggest that surviving the future may break down into various steps:
1) Get home, Hold your family, & survive the crisis event.
2) Hunker down a live off your stored food through the great dying.
3) Sustain your self for years by growing food and/or trading with others.
4) Rebuilding society, Infastructure, Education, Energy, Culture.

Sounds to me like you just recognized to steps 3 & 4.
 

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in other words your speaking of a situation of civil war, or another country such as china invading the US by legally buying us out, however I would combat it, and give my life for my country to keep that American flag flying high above that commie rag. I've given great thought as to where i would go if a revolution, or so on starts, and i would go to where the action is, set up shop and start firing away at the enemy.
this is assuming my home town is still safe, and the front lines are some distance away. that's the situation i believe you are talking about. many others think of different situations and its ok, they simply go through more steps in their situations. in a wartime situation, breakdown happens instantly followed by chaos, then once the victor rises from the rubble they can rebuild as they see fit, so long as it's an American victor rebuilding a republic we lost some time ago.
 

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I suggest that surviving the future may break down into various steps:
1) Get home, Hold your family, & survive the crisis event.
2) Hunker down a live off your stored food through the great dying.
3) Sustain your self for years by growing food and/or trading with others.
4) Rebuilding society, Infastructure, Education, Energy, Culture.

Sounds to me like you just recognized to steps 3 & 4.

Pretty much sums it up for me too.
It's going to be up to people like many of us to put things back together, that's wh ywe need to LEARN as much as we can while it's easy.
 

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I can't see each person only for themselves and their families surviving that well. I would think survival would be more possible if the community or town worked together to defend and rebuild itself. You just see it about the same as I do, I think. There are few gangs that can defend a bunch of townsmen standing up together to defend their town and their homes, and there are few loners who can survive as well as a whole town working together to help each other afterwards. A SHTF situation is the time to stick together in mutual aid.
 

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TRES PER CENT
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to me, survivalism goes beyond the self

survivalism includes the survival of liberty, western society, american individualism, and our culture

you're not the only one man
 

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No man is an Island, huh? I have to say that I agree. It is kind of strange that those who congregate on this site have no ideologies or theology in common other than mere survival. In the aftermath, lone survivalists who do nothing but hunker down will, eventually be wiped out by a more organized an motivated population. Fragmented American Indian tribes with varied agendas and loyalties trying to fend off Europeans comes to mind.

I believe that once SHTF bigtime, folks will devolve from a civilized state into a more tribal consciousness. In dire peril, one will be more likely to identify with folks who think like oneself, believe like ones self, and/or look like ones self. I think that the US and other multi-cultural areas will, unfortunately, look more like shooting galleries when SHTF than more homogeneous populations.

I have thought about this, too, Tiger, but quite simply am just really not there yet. My preparations, I estimate, are in the following states of completion: Food storage 30%, Guns and ammo 20%, Camping Gear 20%, Home Improvements (to improve quality of life, contentment, survivability in the home) 30%, desired liquid assets (cash, metals, etc.) 20%. But with an eye toward the future, I WILL have to eventually negotiate contacts and establish trust and common ground with others of a like mind, ideally BEFORE the aftermath of major meltdown.

Where does one draw his line? Some immediate possibilities come to mind:
The lawful vs. the lawless, or raiders vs. guardians
Faith vs. Faithless and other faiths (?)
Race (one vs. others)
Nationalism (one country/system of Government vs. others)

The lines are not going to be perfect because all will not think like you. For example, you mention being a Christian, so perhaps/probably you would prefer to "tribe up" with folks who have similar values and beliefs...then one day, you and a troop are salvaging a long abandoned hardware store, and a troop of youths, all one race (not yours) goes aggro on your group, a rolling fire-fight ensues, and the two battling groups roll up on a company of Red Chinese, etc...you get the idea.

It is hard to imagine what might happen when populations exceed resources. For myself, I am probably for self-preservation first, a defender of the weak second, Christian third , American next, and if I HAVE to draw the line there, finally, Caucasian. Its hard to imagine, because we don't know what will happen.

I think one model for a very successful tribe formed pre-SHTF is the Mormons. I don't see that, in itself, as being a good reason to go jumping into one of their dunk tanks, but those folks are PREPARED. Mainstream Christians could learn a thing or two from them, as could everyone...still, no reason to integrate complete fiction into your belief system IMO.

One will be ahead of the game if one can negotiate his contacts/loyalties now, as societal collapse is no time to be establishing trust with strangers...
 

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Psychometrician
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Well I guess it really depends on which forums you post on.

Most of the people posting here about riding out the storm in their fortress will not be the leaders should a revolution occur. Those who will be doing the marching, overthrowing, and finally leading are probably now posting on political science message boards, not thinking of how they can store three years worth of food.

Not that there's anything wrong with holing up and surviving, but just know that this plan does not go hand in hand with also then being the type of person to assemble a new constitution and form a national government.
 

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***SPOILER ALERT*

"One Second After" by William Forstchen (re: EMP strike) has some interesting things to say about this. Among other things, he posits a scenario where two neighboring towns work together to cooperatively defend their borders against a raging band of psychotic cannibals and "outsiders" (which is any refugee to the town who wasn't a resident prior to TSHTF). They also form a militia from their youth and college-aged kids, put them on higher-calorie rations than the rest of the town, use some old vets to drill them in military tactics, and use them as the defending army.

So in that book, tribalism is based around geography and community identity.
 

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Well I guess it really depends on which forums you post on.

Most of the people posting here about riding out the storm in their fortress will not be the leaders should a revolution occur. Those who will be doing the marching, overthrowing, and finally leading are probably now posting on political science message boards, not thinking of how they can store three years worth of food.

Not that there's anything wrong with holing up and surviving, but just know that this plan does not go hand in hand with also then being the type of person to assemble a new constitution and form a national government.
Not really sure about that. For instance, some of the poli-sci people I've read STILL seem to think Communism could work and produce a worker's paradise if we just tried it again and got it right. Getting it right being, in part, apparently eliminating all other forms of government so people wouldn't be distracted by that pesty 'choice' thing... I really don't see them (or the neo-anarchists / Freemen / Uber-Liberals / Religious Right / group of the day I see on some forums, all of whose philosophy seems to be "As long as I shout the proper catchphrases, that means I can do what I want") leading much of anything except a train wreck.

And what's wrong with the constitution we've already got? The basics are good, it's the application and 'adaptations' that seems to be causing problems.

And a survivalist (or anyone) who refuses to take part in an uprising, overthrow, and/or establishment of a new government is going to find themselves living under rules written by others. Possibly aimed directly at them. Survivalism in its strictest form ("identify a threat to life and safety from whatever source, and seek to neutralize it") would require you doing something about that...

It also depends on the type of situation we're talking about. If a total TEOTWAWKI, anyone who DOESN'T have three years of food (or the means to produce some) set aside - and the ability to protect what they've got - may not make it. Those who DO come out of the bunkers - well fed, well rested, well equipped, and thinking clearly - will probably find they have no choice but to help re-establsih things lest a ragged, starving, half-crazed mob attacks them. And who better, really, to help recreate society than those who had the smarts, wisdom, and foresight to prepare for disaster ahead of time, while everyone else was off sweating 'American Idol'?
 

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I would say you are called intelligent. Myself I find the idea of hording ammo a little nuts. If I am going to hunker down in a shelter then I will not be doing a whole lot of fighting. With that being said I store up on tools, books, knowledge, raw materials, food, and all the small things a person will need to live. If it comes down to a fight, I want to use the exact same weapon I am fighting against, so I will take one of theirs, for a few simple reasons,
1 as long as I have enemies I have ammo,
2 I don't have to defend a stationary location,
3 family can hide while I draw potential threats away
4 and i think most important, I may find other survivals who will join the fight
A shelter is a very important part of survival preparation, but lets stock it with what we will need to rebuild a life, not what will keep us alive for a year or 2. More important is knowledge and a decent gear set up less than 30 pounds total with everything you will ever need to live in the wild. A gun is nice, but being able to use your enviroment to catch food is a whole lot better.
 

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Misfit Toy
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This is one of the best quotes I've ever read:

"I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me.

It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.

I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget.

And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure.

And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that".

If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us.
 

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I don't think of myself as a survivalist and really don't like the term. I just like to be reasonably prepared for what may come. I'm not one of those nuts who prepares for everything from zombies to meteors to invasion.
 

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PreparationInBubbaNation
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I'm not interested in just Survival, I'm interested in "thrive-ival"; i want to thrive, to have something for my children to look to. Maybe there is no cable, Internet or cell phones, but how about birthdays, anniversaries and weddings?

To get necessities, you have to be able to produce more goods than you need in order to exchange some with others and provide for lean times. I'm not interested in just eating preps, i'm interested in my restocking rate.

For me, the definition of Survival will be a functioning Community, capapble of defending itself and producing more than it needs. I want a Barber, blacksmith, dentist, seamstress, butcher, baker and candlestickmaker. I can do those things myself, but someone else can do them better and trade.
 

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PreparationInBubbaNation
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I would say you are called intelligent. Myself I find the idea of hording ammo a little nuts. If I am going to hunker down in a shelter then I will not be doing a whole lot of fighting. With that being said I store up on tools, books, knowledge, raw materials, food, and all the small things a person will need to live. If it comes down to a fight, I want to use the exact same weapon I am fighting against, so I will take one of theirs, for a few simple reasons,
1 as long as I have enemies I have ammo,
2 I don't have to defend a stationary location,
3 family can hide while I draw potential threats away
4 and i think most important, I may find other survivals who will join the fight
A shelter is a very important part of survival preparation, but lets stock it with what we will need to rebuild a life, not what will keep us alive for a year or 2. More important is knowledge and a decent gear set up less than 30 pounds total with everything you will ever need to live in the wild. A gun is nice, but being able to use your enviroment to catch food is a whole lot better.
Wrong

Being able to catch food is more useful, not better. Why are they mutually exclusive? :confused:

It would take you too long to get a gun from my group to be able to tell the tale. You wouldn't have a chance, certainly not two chances. :xeye:

Now guns are not my most important prep, tools and seeds are, but a gun ais at ool just like a saw or hammer, and I beliee in having the correct tool for the job:thumb:
 

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I don't think of myself as a survivalist and really don't like the term. I just like to be reasonably prepared for what may come. I'm not one of those nuts who prepares for everything from zombies to meteors to invasion.
Buddy, if you are here like the rest of us, than you are nuttier than a a s#$t house loon, just like the rest of us. Come on, just admit it. Lets go kill some zombies! :thumb:
 

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I don't think of myself as a survivalist and really don't like the term. I just like to be reasonably prepared for what may come. I'm not one of those nuts who prepares for everything from zombies to meteors to invasion.
Boy, are YOU going to be sorry when the Zombie Meteor Invasion starts!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It's cool how a few people talked about PoliSci, cause that's my minor. I have a BA in History and PoliSci. Trust me, my beliefs on survival and post-TEOTWAWKI living did not put me in good graces with my professors.

At least we'll be sure of two things after SHTF.
1. No tree-hugging gun-hating college professors.
2. No lawyers

Who else just can't wait for it all to go to Hell?
 
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