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Saw on another thread a poster (or a few posters) who thought that come doomsday women were going to perish in larger numbers than men. Not wanting to hijack the thread I thought I'd share these stats from a real SHTF scenario...the Donner Party:

Two thirds of the women survived; two thirds of the men died.
Four girls aged three and under died; two survived. No girls between the ages of 4 and 16 died.
Four boys aged three and under died; none survived. Six boys between the ages of 4 and 16 died.


Here is some interesting reading and the link where the above in red came from... http://www.xmission.com/~octa/DonnerParty/Statistics.htm

Women can be a lot tougher when the chips are down than many may think. Moral of the story is be nice to your Wife, GF, daughter, as she may just pull your fat out of the fire (no pun intended there).

Fishbread (who is a man)
 

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my wife is tough as nails on the outside and a softy on the inside. she can turn a wrench and figure out whats wrong with her car and then come in side and take a bubblebath, go figure. we went out shooting and she "took" my .45 so i had to buy another and she also "took" my ar. when shtf she'll be right next to me.
 

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I think biology played a part in that. Women generally store more fat than men do, they're designed to. And as a father, would you eat less and give more to your children and wife? I would. That kind of sacrifice is programmed into us. I think most fathers here would die for their families if it came to that.
 

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The Donner party members cant even compare to people of todays society. For instance. Drop me inthe bush.....anywhere...say...olympic national park. By my side I have a MTV watchin, brand name clothes wearin, RAP music listening, pot smokin, coke snortin vally girl..........

Need I say more? No I dont. Not all women will die but at least half the women these days would parish rather quickly do to being unfit, "too fat, too skinny", also mentally unfit and just plain stupid. Women in the old days were more man like than most men are these days.
 

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Post SHTF and TEOTWAWKI alpha males will rule. Non-Alpha males may organize and over throw them but fundamentally women will be forced out of that dynamic completely. Woman's equality is an artificial construct that would evaporate with the breakdown of society. Their influence would be reduced to what it has been for almost all of human civilization, behind closed doors.

As for the Donner party... females have more fat stores than males and that counts in matters of starvation. It doesn't count when he can pick up the club and she can't.
 

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The Donner party members cant even compare to people of todays society. For instance. Drop me inthe bush.....anywhere...say...olympic national park. By my side I have a MTV watchin, brand name clothes wearin, RAP music listening, pot smokin, coke snortin vally girl..........

Need I say more? No I dont. Not all women will die but at least half the women these days would parish rather quickly do to being unfit, "too fat, too skinny", also mentally unfit and just plain stupid. Women in the old days were more man like than most men are these days.
I am attending a fairly large University in Texas so I see a good cross section of today's generation and the future. The above statement should not have a gender attached to it, the boys and men are just the same and in some cases worse.
 

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I think biology played a part in that. Women generally store more fat than men do, they're designed to. And as a father, would you eat less and give more to your children and wife? I would. That kind of sacrifice is programmed into us. I think most fathers here would die for their families if it came to that.
Yes, I'm sure biology did play a part. Also men tend to lead harsher lives, then and now (well, it's questionable about today but after TSHTF I'm sure it will revert). Here is another interesting bit about fathers and bachelors...

All the adult males who survived the entrapment (Breen, Eddy, Foster, Keseberg) were fathers.
All the bachelors (single males over age 21) who were trapped in the Sierra died. (Bachelor Walter Herron did survive, but he wasn't trapped in the mountains; Jean-Baptiste Trudeau and Noah James survived the entrapment, but were only about 16 years old and are not considered bachelors).
 

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Post SHTF and TEOTWAWKI alpha males will rule. Non-Alpha men may organize and over throw them but fundamentally women will be forced out of that dynamic completely. Woman's equality is an artificial construct that would evaporate with the breakdown of society. Their influence would be reduced to what it has been for almost all of human civilization, behind closed doors.

As for the Donner party... woman have more fat stores than men and that counts in matters of starvation. It doesn't count when he can pick up the club and she can't.
damn I have to disagree with you here alpha males will die when they can't realize that planting is a good thing and have ran out of the MRE's and preps they stockpiled. In our modern society most alphas have migrated to the board room. The alpha male is general the one who thinks he alone can rule. In stone age tribes anyone with the alpha male mentality finds himself alone with no support. making bad decesions based on pride forcing him not to back down leads to him being alone.

During the middle ages female serfs work just as hard as the male serfs. Only Noble daughters got off light on the work load. Keep in mind that the during the middle ages if a womens husband was a smith by law she could also work as one many a Master Smith was in fact a women.

At the top end men tend to max out stronger depends on how hard she works at it. Anyone can pick up a club anyone can shoot you with an AR. The problem is since the middle ages we have told our girls to be polite, weak and go along with what they are told to do. Boys get a free pass "Boys will be boys"
When we first met my wife was in gymnastics and she could easy beat me in an arm wrestle she is still just as flexible as before and almost as strong. I have gained strength on purpose (vanity).

In many of the stone-age tribes while womens respect level maybe be low they provide 90% of he food calories in the area of gardens and gathering. They have traditions that keep them low. Our women do not and I think you'll see more strength out of them then weekness.

However Women will die more often why because I will kill a person for food my wife will not. This isn't biology this women being told for generation. "There there dear I'll look after it." Course so much as even think of harming her children my wife will pick up a club, rock, rip off your leg and beat you to death with it dance around your corpse and sing praises to some pagan goddess she's never even heard of. Don't mess with a momma bear's cubs.
 

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a large percentage of the women I know will make it. I know I menu plan and there is no way my husband knows the first thing about cooking! his idea of cooking is microwaving his coffee! sure he can shoot a gun, but so can I.

The women I know are out there butchering dinner, driving tractors, stacking hay, delivering livestock in the middle of the night, bearing and raising babies, heck... shopping can be deadly!
 

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The Donner party members cant even compare to people of todays society. For instance. Drop me inthe bush.....anywhere...say...olympic national park. By my side I have a MTV watchin, brand name clothes wearin, RAP music listening, pot smokin, coke snortin vally girl..........

Need I say more? No I dont. Not all women will die but at least half the women these days would parish rather quickly do to being unfit, "too fat, too skinny", also mentally unfit and just plain stupid. Women in the old days were more man like than most men are these days.
This statement I do agree with a lot my daughters friends will die why they worry more about makeup and which cute boy likes them then anything else. My daughter wears makeup when we have something special going on or when she goes on a date. She dress to be comfortable and the hell with the boys unless on a date. All three of my daughters are rough and tumble tom boys wanting to hunt when we move and enjoy being outside.
Course there mother once won a spitting contest with her cousin and climbed every tree she saw growing up. None of them want to be a lady :)
 

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Men will die because they think they can't. The alpha men in particular because they feel they can conquer any situation instead of adapting to it. It doesn't matter how many guns you have or how much military info you studied. It all comes down to adapting. Let the alpha males all kill each other trying to be top dog.

I will live because I HAVE to. I have two young kids that need me to be strong and take care of them. I will do ANYTHING for them. It if means killing someone and eating them so be it. We will. I would eat my husband if he died before us and we needed food. Don't underestimate women... we are cunning and sly and will play stupid until you turn your back on us at which point we will kill you with no mercy. Dog help the person that tries to hurt my family.
 

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The reason for higher survival rate among females could be because the female body is designed to bear children and bring them to life.
 

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In the cities I can see higher mortality rates in women(Gangs and wackos gone wild), but in rural areas I don't see that there would be a difference.
 

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I think my def of an alpha male is different that some of those here. If he "feel they can conquer any situation instead of adapting to it" or "they can't realize that planting is a good thing and have ran out of the MRE's and preps they stockpiled." then I do not see them as alpha males.
 

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Perhaps it's a different definition I seem them as the pushy SOB at work that I listen to because some jerk promoted him but secretly I want to push his face in.
Who thinks he knows every blessed thing on earth and really he knows squat but he keeps yammering because in high school he was some fancy jock and he thinks if he keeps talking we'll actually respect him. He was big news in high school and has never forgotten it. You suggest something at work he says it's bad idea then a week later the idea is brought forward as his and it's the best idea ever. He's cocky, self-assured and a hit with the ladies. Bad boy or football star they are the same guy just different focus. All flash no brains.
Granted that's my take on the Alpha-Man. Course I was and am a Beta why because I care how people feel and would rather plan with others to complete a project or task and I know I am wrong and will admit it.

I only say this because I had a friend who was an alpha-male(dog) he could never keep his pants on, every idea was his, and while he might be able to get more people to work on a project I always ended up organizing and doing most of the actually job. While he sat there and looked pretty. Not to mention never admitting he had done anything wrong ever. But i'm not bitter naw.:D:
 

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to me that is a arrogant a-hole, self-centered prick. I would not want to dirty the word alpha by using it to describe someone like that. Maybe it is the modern use of the world. But in nature I think an alpha male would be a true natural leader.....not just for a short time because he intimidates people. One who truly has the skill and respect. That is the alpha I would follow and try to be.

And as for the topic. The real women will survive and the real men will survive. The wimps will die in my opinion. And yes there are a lot more wimps today than in the past.
 

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damn I have to disagree with you here alpha males will die when they can't realize that planting is a good thing and have ran out of the MRE's and preps they stockpiled. In our modern society most alphas have migrated to the board room. The alpha male is general the one who thinks he alone can rule. In stone age tribes anyone with the alpha male mentality finds himself alone with no support. making bad decesions based on pride forcing him not to back down leads to him being alone.
In stone age tribes alphas ruled. Alphas rule now in most the world. Post SHTF the alphas will take preps and kill those in the way. At any rate, the top of the heap will be a male dog fight. Women do not fit into that dynamic at all, have not for all but a half-century of human life and only in the West. Post SHTF women will be what they have been for 99.99 of human history, as they are now in most of the world, objects and labor but not movers or doers or leaders.
 

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I give more credit to women than many other men do. I am protective of women and children but I've known some women (including my current wife) who have made it through some pretty tough times. If times get really bad, I will tuck my wife away in as safe a place as I can find and I will stand in front of her. However, knowing her like I do, she won't stay tucked and she'll be standing next to me.
 
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