Call the cops.

 

and be a good witness. In too many DV cases I have been on, the "victim" then sides with the suspect and attacks the officer.

 

I'm also from IL and VERY familiar with DV issues. Here's your biggest problem...... if you shot the basturd, there's a very good chance the woman will side with the ABUSER! and now you are some bloody heartless murderer.

I spent 10 yrs as a Volunteer for our local DV program. I spent 10 yrs attempting to help these women escape. I got bit in the arse, so many times, I've lost all sympathy for these women.

It's some bizarre mental illness. And I was involved in a short term DV relationship. I'm pretty sure the guy was trying to kill me, slowly! I escaped and never looked back.

 

I'm also from IL and VERY familiar with DV issues. Here's your biggest problem...... if you shot the basturd, there's a very good chance the woman will side with the ABUSER! and now you are some bloody heartless murderer.
I spent 10 yrs as a Volunteer for our local DV program. I spent 10 yrs attempting to help these women escape. I got bit in the arse, so many times, I've lost all sympathy for these women.

It's some bizarre mental illness. And I was involved in a short term DV relationship. I'm pretty sure the guy was trying to kill me, slowly! I escaped and never looked back.

Agreed. I spent 30 years pushing a police car. I can't count the numer of times I've arrested some guy for lumping up his wife/gf etc. and she's down trying to bail him out before I had the report done. The vast majority wait to tell the DA they changed their mind and refuse to testify.

As far as to get involved or not, that's a case by case decision that gets made at the time and on the spur of the moment.

 

call the cops and wait while he beats her?

 

She chose to be with the scum in all likelihood. It was her choice. It is also likely that his aggressive behavior is what attracted her to him in the first place. Keep living and learning

Not saying it's good. Just reality.

 

Interesting post.
I learned the hard way that what you consider chivalry may be rewarded with both the aggressor AND the apparent victim turning on you. Remember, there are two of "them". If they both claim you caused the problem, you could be arrested and they could even sue you...and win.

It is hard to intervene when in many cases, women put themselves in abusive situations then defend the perp.

Unfortunately, in this era, it is best to call the Police and let them handle it.

And since you mentioned CCW. I carry most of the time. My attitude is that I have to be 100 times more "tolerant" and "patient" when I'm carrying. I don't want to get into ANY kind of avoidable altercation with a concealed weapon. The fact that you are carrying should ONLY make a difference in a life or death situation imo.
Not for Policing.

 

I help train law enforcement. One of the scenarios we run is domestic violence where a man is abusing/beating/striking a woman. The woman demands that the man be arrested. While the LE trainees are arresting the culprit and when the woman sees the handcuffs come out, the woman changes her tune and fights the officers.

This has been very puzzling for aspiring (academy) officers. The fact is that usually the person being beaten wants it stopped and sometimes will call the police but when it comes to the arrest they will (many times) turn!

 

would be a easy situation for me cuff the dude shoot the crazy

 

If you want to intervene go ahead but unless he's killing her you better leave that weapon holstered. If you want to confront bad guys with a gun, got to the police academy or wait for WROL.

 

I would keep in mind two things:

1. You only think you know what's going on
2. When the police arrive, she will defend him not you

 

If it is typical domestic violence and of a non-serious nature, I'll call the police. If I believe the victim is in danger of being killed or seriously/permanently injured, I will intervene. I have done this unarmed, which at least broke up the spat for long enough for others to jump in and calm the situation down. I have also done this while open carrying, and simply my presence and demeanor quickly stopped the conflict.

I try not to do this while conceal carrying- if the aggressor gets it in their head to attack me for messing in his business, and he assumes I am unarmed and an easy target, I may be placed in a position in which the use of my weapon is necessary. Obviously I don't want to shoot anybody. In my experience, the knowledge that I am armed and willing to intervene is enough for the attacker to stop, but it would be unfortunate for all parties involved for an attacker to assume incorrectly that I am unarmed and end up in a massive legal ****-storm.

 

Back in the day.... I was friends with a juvenile Probation Officer. When he found out the long DV history of this particular guy, and the fact that I was the 1ST AND ONLY woman to EVER press charges against him and not back down (LIFE THREATENING DEATH WAS SERIOUS WITH THIS GUY).... well....

The Probation Officer and a few of his buddies, managed to get him boozed up and got him in the middle of a cornfield. Gave him a taste of his own medicine. Pretty much told him not to even bother reporting the *supposed* crime, because 90% of LE KNOW this guy's history and what a douchbag he is.

The guy never reported them. He knew better. Did it stop him? NO.... he actually escalated his abuse against the women after me. Or maybe he got better at picking more mentally unstable women? I'm not sure.

 

In my state I would have to call the police. I have a CCW for Nebraska the first thing stated in the class was take $600.00 put it in a safe deposit box and give your lawyer the key...what's that tell ya??

I just applied for my Utah CCW which will allow me to carry in 37 more states except Hawaii, New York, and California. The laws in my state are pretty strict concerning CCW which actually surprised me!

Nebraska is a right to retreat state!!

 

Hate to break it to you but Utah stopped issuing permits to non residents.

http://www.usacarry.com/utah_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

 

Years ago Mrs Cricket and I stopped a man beating his woman. We were watching TV and we heard yelling out in front of our home. We went to investigate and discovered a man sitting on top of his woman and beating her in our front yard. Not slapping but beating with fists making solid hits. Another couple in the car not lifting a finger to stop it. I yelled at him to stop beating the woman. He yelled at me, threatening me, and then he delivered a few more blows to the woman before stopping. Mrs Cricket went and got the phone and I went and got the gun. We called the cops. After a minute or two he got off of her. She got up walked a little ways away and called someone and talked to them. Maybe ten minutes after we called the cops, the cops showed up. They really don't like domestics so some of them just refused to respond. Just before the cops showed up, the beaten women got back into the car with the man who beat her and the 4 of them drove off together.

People who stay with the people who abuse them really do have a mental disease.

 

Do not get involved unless you absolutely have to. Call the cops because if you're alone, things can change too quick. I was at a bar with my dad one time and a guy started beating the crap out of his wife (closed fist punches to the face). I jumped on him and next thing I know, that bimbo he was beating on jumped on my back and was clawing my face and pulling my hair. If my dad wouldn't have been there, it could have turned out pretty bad I'm sure. Now, put yourself in this same situation but you're carrying.

If you're carrying, no physical altercations unless you are in a group and have the help of others. Alone, you could be signing your own death warrant. Either call the cops and leave it be, or pull your pistol and shoot the bastard... (in this example you wouldn't have a firearm because it's illegal to have firearms in establishments that make 51% or more sales by alcohol)

 

Call the police.

I came out of the house one Sunday morning because I heard a woman yelling. Her boyfriend was hitting her, and she was crying and screaming. I ran to help, and asked her if she wanted me to call the police. She told me to mind my own effing business and went off with the guy. Never again.

 

A concealed carry permit is not a permit to carry on the duties of a law enforcement officer.

 

Well said. As I tell my trainees, it is not a license to kill, it is a license to carry

 

DO NOT BE A ****ING WHITE KNIGHT

Women who are with abusive men, on some ****ed up level, "enjoy" the domination. Otherwise they'd leave.

Women like this also depend on beta-males, or White knights to come "save" them from the abuser(s), and the woman then goes home and has sex with the abuser(s).

it is a very ****ed up cycle.

 

I think sometimes that the real 'power' is held by the woman; the abuser knows most women wouldn't put up with this, and she knows it too!

 

I've often pondered the thought of writing a book, about my experiences TRYING to help these women. Then I realized I would be destroyed by the DV community.

I can tell countless stories that I let a wife w/ kids (and nippy little ankle biting dogs) knock on my door at 3am.... and without question.... let them move into my place.

I SHELTERED THEM from the abuse. Make a long story short..... I'd find out the perb was INVITED to MY HOUSE by the wife....

and the KIDS DISOWNED THEIR MOTHER!!! *enough said*

 

Emerald Eyes: You have truly been there. Thank you for your efforts.

For the CCW holder, most authors like Gresham and Ayoob advise you to take no overt action unless you or your companions are directly threatened. Except do call 911, do pay attention, and be a good witness for the responding LEO.

YMMV.

 

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Domestic violence is a _super_ complicated issue. Those of you saying it's the woman's fault or she "chose" to be in the relationship have no idea what you're talking about and need to pull your heads of your rear.

Many abused women come from an abusive home and have been trained that that is normal so they don't necessarily see anything wrong in the abuse continuing.
Women (and men sometimes) don't want to be nor do they enjoy being abused. It simply becomes impossible for them to escape. They have been so beaten into submission that have been made to believe that it is their fault and they deserve it. The abuser has so much control over their thoughts and emotions that most never even attempt to get help - they might actually see no need for help.

That's why when someone intervenes the victim will usually support the abuser no matter how wrong you think that is or if you think that shows she chose & wants the abuse.

Looking at it from the outside, you'll never understand the dynamics of such a relationship. You have no idea of the conditioning involved. You know NOTHING! How dare you judge the victims from your ignorance? Try to help? Of course that's the right thing to do, but don't be surprised if your help isn't appreciated. The best thing you can do for both people and yourself is call the police and stay out of it unless one is in danger of death or serious harm. Even then you should only focus on separating them and keep BOTH under control. Don't do it by yourself if you can avoid it. It takes at least 2 to separate and control both of them. Don't start fighting. Don't try to talk. Don't try to understand. It'll backfire on you. Keep them and you safe until the police arrive. Let them be the bad guys.

 

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Domestic violence is a _super_ complicated issue. Those of you saying it's the woman's fault or she "chose" to be in the relationship have no idea what you're talking about and need to pull your heads of your rear.

Many abused women come from an abusive home and have been trained that that is normal so they don't necessarily see anything wrong in the abuse continuing.
Women (and men sometimes) don't want to be nor do they enjoy being abused. It simply becomes impossible for them to escape. They have been so beaten into submission that have been made to believe that it is their fault and they deserve it. The abuser has so much control over their thoughts and emotions that most never even attempt to get help - they might actually see no need for help.

That's why when someone intervenes the victim will usually support the abuser no matter how wrong you think that is or if you think that shows she chose & wants the abuse.

Looking at it from the outside, you'll never understand the dynamics of such a relationship. You have no idea of the conditioning involved. You know NOTHING! How dare you judge the victims from your ignorance? Try to help? Of course that's the right thing to do, but don't be surprised if your help isn't appreciated. The best thing you can do for both people and yourself is call the police and stay out of it unless one is in danger of death or serious harm. Even then you should only focus on separating them and keep BOTH under control. Don't do it by yourself if you can avoid it. It takes at least 2 to separate and control both of them. Don't start fighting. Don't try to talk. Don't try to understand. It'll backfire on you. Keep them and you safe until the police arrive. Let them be the bad guys.

I WAS ON THE INSIDE..... 80% of these women have a bizarre mental illness. The other 20% (such as myself) ACTUALLY DID NEED HELP!

 

There is a couple I have arrested multiple times for beating the other (including one time where the female using a fire extinguisher to strike the male). Every single time they have dropped charges against the other and they say they "love" each other.

FL is a state where we have to arrest the primary aggressor in a DV situation. Otherwise I would show up, say "oh it's you! see ya later".

We just had a case where a woman was stabbed by her boyfriend. She asked for the charges to be dropped, the state did not comply. After he bonded out they fled the state together.

 

Here's the ONLY way I can figure out how to explain it.....


"poor me, poor me, everybody feel sorry for me" syndrome!

When you attempt to remove them from the abuse.... they just go back. Maybe they won't go back to the same guy, but they go back to the same *type of guy*.

"poor me, poor me, everybody feel sorry for me"

For whatever reasons they actually want the so-called attention. I just dont *get it*.

EDIT: I can give them a million dollars with a stress free life, and they WILL STILL GO BACK TO THE SAME TYPE OF GUY! It attracts them! They get some sort of *feed* from this. It's truly bizarre.

 

call the cops, and video it with your phone. Give the vid to the cops.

Nothing will get you killed faster than getting involved in a domestic dispute. Chances are good that the woman will hurt you for hurting the husband.

Wierd world.

 

In the State of Illinois, there are countless stories of DV victims doing serious time in prison, for video/audio taping their abuser.... THINKING.... THEY WERE FINALLY GETTING THEIR EVIDENCE!

Where's the abuser? The arsehole has SOLE CUSTODY of the kids, because mom is in prison.

THAT'S THE STATE OF IL FOR YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And speaking of DV issues in particular to the State of Illinois.... *think*... the Peterson case. How many wives did that cop murder?

Those poor women never had a hope in hell of getting help in the State of IL. Afterall.... the husband was A COP!

 

The straw that broke the camels back..... I had a wife, 1 older teen daughter, 1 younger teen son, and 3 ankle biting dogs ****ting and ****ing all over my off white carpets......

This was one seriously VIOLENT HUSBAND..... he already had one heck of a track record of violent temper. Turns out....... he was abusing the wife on Friday nights, and abusing the mistress on Saturday nights. Had online arrest records to prove both.

Won't even begin to discuss all the violent bully crap he did to his kids, growing up thru the years. OH>>>>>> then there was the obvious holes in the drywall from where he smashed the wife's head during his Friday night temper tantrums.

The 15 yr old daughter, and 13 yr old son.... HATED DAD A LONGGGGGG TIME AGO!!!!

I come home and find the basturd sitting IN MY DINING ROOM.... because as wife/mom put it.... "he was threatening suicide". (boo hoo cry some more)

Somehow she had it in her head that she couldn't ALLOW the daddy of her children to commit suicide. (whatever)

The 2 teen kids TRIED to talk sense into her.... but her only excuse was.... "but he's the dad of my kids!!!!"

AND THE KIDS KEPT TELLING HER.... HE'S THE DAD THAT WANTS US DEAD!!!! WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?????????????????//

*He had supposedly repaired a faulty gas furnace, and the house was filled with fumes! This happened during the same day the cops showed up to give him the Order of Protection. He told the cops he didn't know they weren't comming back. YEAH.... this guy was planning on BLOWING THE HOUSE/FAMILY UP"

I called the cops. The kids pretty much told the cops..... GET US INTO A FOSTER HOME, WE'VE HAD IT!!!!!

And that was the last time I tried to help anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Half of all abusive relationships are abusive on both sides, and even the remaining half are split evenly between male and female (slight statistical increase on the female instigator side but that's mostly due to a lack of intervention).

You may walk into a situation where the guy has the girl on the ground and in your head you assume she's a helpless victim needing to be saved. The reality may very well be that either:

They were both beating the snot out of each other in mutual aggression and he was simply more physically capable and both of them are aggressive, crazy, and likely to see your intervention as a threat to them going to jail or you taking away their ability to act the way they do.

Or the female attacked the male and the male is trying to restrain the female to stop the attack.

I was in an abusive marriage myself with a woman that developed a severe mental illness. I usually just curled up and took the beating and waited for her to tire. Any attempt to run away or restrain her just made the next attack worse. Had you intervened in my case I'd have probably argued in defense of my ex because she was mentally ill and couldn't be expected to behave appropriately.

That went on right up until one time she stabbed me in the chest. Thought it was just another episode, I might get another concussion in the worst case, and had no idea it was coming. So, with that in mind... I recommend a simple: "You guys need to stop." and call the police. Monitor the situation while you wait, and if it escalates to someone seriously harming the other (like pulling a knife or curb-stomping someone), pull the gun and order them to stop. Don't let anyone get killed, but give them a chance to break it up without shooting anyone, and if they both tell you to **** off, do so and let them handle it. Chances are they've actually developed a routine for this and no one's going to get killed.