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Wishful thinking or "itching ears?"

Seems today, a handful of folks that are semi-serious into preparedness are willing to believe just about anything when it comes to survival planning.

I'm talking about this concept wherein people feel that they can "make do" with minimal preparations and/or live close to bad areas because of the thought that "it won't get THAT bad."

The idea usually starts with some sort of mocking ridicule type thing- "Oh people that feel you have to be in the country are those Mad Max type survivalists... blah blah blah." Mad Max? That's pretty silly. Quite the contrary, I would submit that someone who was convinced they wouldn't need much in the way of preps would be EATING DOG FOOD a lot sooner than someone in the country with more preps would!!

The problem with these "you'll make it ok" in the cities folks that you sometimes see on the net is that you are essentially COUNTING on things NOT to go too far. i.e, the "bad times" won't get too bad.

Can you really say they won't? Can anyone? Of course not!


Slow slide? I agree 100%, more than likely we are in a slow slide now, notice I didn't say we were nor did I attempt to speculate on times/dates, etc.

OK so question for the slow slide folks- when it DOES finally come down to rioting and massive civil disorder, are you THEN to bug out? Think that bugging out will get EASIER or HARDER the further into the situation? Common sense says that harder is the correct answer.

By that point the gubmint WILL have taken clear measures to "keep order" that will include restrictions on travel, curfews, gas rationing, etc. Think it will be a peace of cake to leave MID TSHTF?

Come on people THINK!!

I realize it's all nice to hear someone tell you that stuff won't be that bad, that you won't have to make ANY CHANGES to your current "lifestyle" and make it just fine. That would be GREAT if it was TRUE. How "sustainable" is life in the suburbs? "But I can grow a garden in my 1/4 acre lot." Sure you can, but will that feed your family long term- no. Also, how are you going to defend it from the other 250,000 starving pilgrims within a 3 mile radius?

Course now a days people want EASY ANSWERS. People are in general LAZY (myself included) and trust me here folks, if there WAS an easy way out, I would have found it!

The real "easy way out" is adjusting your lifestyle NOW and making SERIOUS preparations and plans (that you WILL implement- half the battle) NOW.

Scripture talks about people that would have "itching ears" in the last days. The Scripture meaning is more towards Spiritual matters, but I think we can use that phrase for some of us in the preparedness movement today.

People with "itching ears" WANT to believe they can stay in the suburbs 2 miles outside a city of half a million and make it o.k. People with "itching ears" want to believe they can "defend there subdivision" with just a couple of assault rifles and a handful of neighbors whose training and trustworthiness is highly suspect.

This isn't planning, this is relaying on dumb luck! And I don't buy the old axiom that "God looks after stupid people!" Quite the contrary I think God rewards people who pursuit Him and do what's RIGHT for there family.

I hear a few folks talking like it's wrong to plan for the long term. What's wrong with that? Quite the contrary, by being prepared for the long term, I am prepared also for "short term" events. However if I'm prepared ONLY for short term events, I'm NOT prepared for a long term event.

And how is one to know the difference? If the market crashed tomorrow, would you KNOW THEN WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT IT WAS ONLY A "SHORT TERM" EVENT? Of course you wouldn't. I supposed a LOT of folks thought events in October of 1929 were a "short term" event. The reality of the situation was that it took a world war 12 YEARS LATER to get us out of that depression....

So HOW will you know?

The answer of course is that you won't know, and neither will I. Therefore, it would behoove us to plan and prepare for long term disruptions.

"Oh but stockpiling more than a few months of food is a waste of money!" Oh really! How the heck you figure that? We've shown on here time and time again how storing food SAVES your family money. Do it for that reason if none other. And despite the crazy notion that "you can always BUY food", the reality of true famine and food shortage situations proves otherwise. As we have stated before-

Food= Power
Food= Control

Ruling class elements of the world have recognized that since time immemorial. I suggest a good study of Joseph in the book of Genesis. Folks know that story for the fact that he stored 7 years of food for Egypt, but they rarely remember the REST of the story. That being that the ruler of Egypt then USED THAT FOOD to buy up all of Egypt! That was when "money failed"- OMG, wait a tick! You mean I can't always count on gold and silver to "buy" me out of a bad situation? Don't forget the important survival equation-

Food= Power
Food= Control

Anyone who cannot grasp that lacks an understanding of HISTORY.

A big part of good survival planning is negating any possible pitfalls you may face. Would it be wise to plan for the possibility of resupplying your food via possibly "buying" food via either a non-existent currency or PM's that the seller may or may not even accept, or would it be better to have your resupply situation already squared away via food storage, food production capabilities, etc.

Most survivalists don't relay totally on the police for there personal protection, why then should we relay on the grocery store to always save us? Surely no one would store just a box of ammunition and think "I can always buy more", why then would someone be foolish enough to do the same with food?

You see the "Food=Power" equation works FOR you as well as it can work AGAINST you. Having a decent amount of food storage plus a way to resupply- gardens, orchards, raising animals, hunting, snaring, etc. IS "power" in your court. Relaying on someone else to provide food for you- the "you can always BUY food" non-sense is putting the power in someone else's court!

Simple economics bears out more rationale for food storage. Remember earlier this year when there was a "rice shortage" and folks were scrambling to buy rice and some were paying $30. for 50 lbs. Well if you were eating what you had put up (correctly) years ago that you paid $8. per 50 lbs. for, you had now saved $22.00 per 50 lbs. Consider that as late as early 2007 rice could be had at $10. per 50lb. bag, it had TRIPLED in price in just over a year.

Rice I put up in 1991 cost $14.00 per HUNDRED lbs. we are rotating that rice now, saving $46.00 per 100 lbs. Course you MIGHT BE ABLE to "buy" food during an emergency at GREATLY INCREASED PRICES but who's to GUARANTEE THAT?

I'd hate to be the fool that had to pay the equivalant of $100. in gold or silver for 50 lbs. of rice one day just because they bought the lie that "you can ALWAYS buy food." Course at that point the only other option would be to STARVE so giving up the gold or silver probably wouldn't be as painful as we think it would be now.

You see survival really comes down to three things when it's all boiled down to the basics-

1. Food and means to get more
2. Defending what you have
3. Fixing stuff and building stuff

Oversimplistic? Of course it is, but most everything fits into that category. Medical? Category 3. Guns, ammo, spare parts, training, Category 2. Food storage, hunting, gardening, preserving Category 1. Auto repair, blacksmithing, gunsmithing, carpentry, masonry, Category 3. NBC preps? Category 2.

Is this basic? Of course it is. But most everything can be fit into one of these categories.

I realize gambling is pretty common place now a days, but do you want to GAMBLE YOUR FAMILY'S LIFE on poor preps and bad choice of location?

Basic math shows that staying in the city or near the city means you have a MUCH HIGHER possibility of violence, more competition for food and other resources as well as LESSER CHANCES of being able to sustain yourself. With a postage stamp for a backyard, you are going to be very limited on what you can grow/raise. And we've shown before how 4 small raised beds will NOT grow all the food a family of four needs for a year. Suggest watching our Youtube video series on "Survival Gardening" available at

www.homesteadingandsurvival.com


I believe the problem lies with folks that have not fully thought through the idea of a self sufficient place in the country. They think of it ONLY as a place for "bad times." Most haven't thought through the idea. A piece of land in the country where your family can produce it's own food, power, water, etc. means you bring that "control" part of the equation back in YOUR FAVOR instead of someone else's. Done right, living in the country means a lower cost living which puts you in a better financial condition. If your raising your own food this is saving you further money.

The problem herein is responsibility. Most people are unwilling to take this level of responsibility for their own lives. This is where the "itching ears" and "wishful thinking" comes into play.

Will "wishful thinking" get you through? How will you KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT how long an emergency will last? The answer of course is that you won't know, NEITHER WILL ANYONE ELSE no matter there claims of expertise. As survivalists we have historically taken the "better safe than sorry" route.

Real survival has no "easy button." Plan and act accordingly. -RH

"Tentative efforts lead to tentative outcomes." Epictetus.

http://www.survivalreportblog.com/Volume_64.html

Permission is granted to repost provided a link is posted with the info.
 

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very nice post there lowdown3 i hope this will open some eyes alittle wider.
its like when a baby is bory there eye open only so much but eventually there opened wide i hope your post expidites this process
 

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Thats quite a speach LD3 and if I'm honest i agree with some (a large proportion in fact) but not all of what you have to say.

The notion that you have to be living in the country to make it for instance, sorry I dont buy that at all. I'm in "suburbia" should anything of a large scale event take place its the "country" that the city folk'll be heading too when the food runs out and the diseases start taking hold, whether they know how to live off the land or not, they know what livestock and veggy's look like :taped: and you and your shotgun/sk/ak/whatever arent gonna be much of a deterent.

Still good post thanks for sharing.:thumb:
 

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Wishful thinking or "itching ears?"

Seems today, a handful of folks that are semi-serious into preparedness are willing to believe just about anything when it comes to survival planning.

I'm talking about this concept wherein people feel that they can "make do" with minimal preparations and/or live close to bad areas because of the thought that "it won't get THAT bad."

The idea usually starts with some sort of mocking ridicule type thing- "Oh people that feel you have to be in the country are those Mad Max type survivalists... blah blah blah." Mad Max? That's pretty silly. Quite the contrary, I would submit that someone who was convinced they wouldn't need much in the way of preps would be EATING DOG FOOD a lot sooner than someone in the country with more preps would!!

The problem with these "you'll make it ok" in the cities folks that you sometimes see on the net is that you are essentially COUNTING on things NOT to go too far. i.e, the "bad times" won't get too bad.
...
Not minimal preps, but preps that differ a lot form what 60's survivalist teh end of teh world type thought you'd need.
One of the most underestimated preps you'll need is money. Lot sof money.
And I'm sorry about the way things are going these days in USa, but you'll see what I mean in a matter of months.

Please, make sure you have means of making more money than you do now becuase you will need it. I'm not screwgin around, we've been were you guys are now.
OK so question for the slow slide folks- when it DOES finally come down to rioting and massive civil disorder, are you THEN to bug out? Think that bugging out will get EASIER or HARDER the further into the situation? Common sense says that harder is the correct answer.
Riots, looting ? You stay home, bug in, order is eventually restored and you are expected to sohw up to work the next day. Run to the hills or to your retreat and you'l get fired... you do NOT want ot get fired during an economical crisis.

By that point the gubmint WILL have taken clear measures to "keep order" that will include restrictions on travel, curfews, gas rationing, etc. Think it will be a peace of cake to leave MID TSHTF?

Come on people THINK!!
Where do you think the gov. will concentrate the efforts the most? Ensure health and security? They do it in the greatest point of population.


I think the problem is that you are expecting some kind of total end of the world scenario where cities are burned to the ground. When was the last time that happened?
Even a complicated place like NY ( one here I wouldn't want to live by the way) but take a look at it. How long has it been stating, how many crisis has it survived.

The idea of going back to 18th century is just wishful thinking, it will not happen.

You seirously think that's the problem USA will be facing in the coming years, cities being destoryed by looters?

FerFAL
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not minimal preps, but preps that differ a lot form what 60's survivalist teh end of teh world type thought you'd need.
One of the most underestimated preps you'll need is money. Lot sof money.
And I'm sorry about the way things are going these days in USa, but you'll see what I mean in a matter of months.

Please, make sure you have means of making more money than you do now becuase you will need it. I'm not screwgin around, we've been were you guys are now.


Riots, looting ? You stay home, bug in, order is eventually restored and you are expected to sohw up to work the next day. Run to the hills or to your retreat and you'l get fired... you do NOT want ot get fired during an economical crisis.



Were do you think the gov. will concentrate the efforts the most? Ensure health and security? They do it in the greatest point of population.


I think the problem is that you are expecting some kind of total end of the world scenario where cities are burned to the ground. When was the last time that happened?
Even a complicated place like NY ( one here I wouldn't want to live by the way) but take a look at it. How long has it been stating, how many crisis has it survived.

The idea of going back to 18th century is just wishful thinking, it will not happen.

You seirously think that's the problem USA will be facing in the coming years, cities being destoryed by looters?

FerFAL
I expect your looking for a fight Pablo. Hopefully you can debate with common sense and clean words, not your usual end run of mindless insinuations you can't back up, personal attacks, etc. If that's what your looking for, probably best to start your own thread on what SHTF means to you- blenders not working right and such.

I read your typical insinuations-

"I" am making a pretty darn good living right now. Two businesses, both on cash basis, one that generates a pretty much guaranteed monthly income that involves 2 year contracts at a go. The other one is a business that typically THRIVES in bad times. A "good month" right now is over $10K income with about 3/4 of that from the regular income source and the rest from the more variable source, a "typical" month is probably $8K. Not rich and I'm sure not what you pull in :rolleyes: but when you:

1. Own your own homes- I own two and my Daddy didn't buy them for me.
2. Produce your own power 3/4 of the year- that means a savings of $100-150. most months of the year
3. Have plenty of food to eat and grow 3/4 or more of what you use
4. Are completely debt free, including houses, land, AE, businesses, etc.

(I say this to prove my point to Pablo not to look like I'm bragging, this isn't the first time he's made the "hermit" "idiot farmer" "poor dirt farmer" insinuations towards me)

I'd say we are getting by pretty well. We got out of debt completely April 17th so of course that helps tremendously. We also, are going into OUR economic problems already prepped, not wishing we bought food storage after the fact.

Seeing as your big focus is on "money" wouldn't you say that when someone is debt free, owns everything he has, has multiple sources of income plus plenty of savings, VERY LOW expenses wouldn't they be on the right track? I think even guys like Dave Ramsey preach the same thing -sans the food storage, but give him time, they'll catch up.

I'm not sure why you always want to start crap with me but you always do.
So your insinuation that I'm a stupid ******* living in a trailer as a "hermit" in the woods is just more of your typical personal attacks.

See, you as a "citizen of the world" evidently see government intervention in people's lives as a GOOD thing. Most survivalists in the states DO NOT see this that way. Oh I agree, the gubmint WILL put most of it's efforts towards securing the cities first- which proves my point regarding CONTROL (thanks)- however do you want to be somewhere where on every street corner you have to show your ID, get searched, etc. when you could be moving freely in the country? See, you might be used to that, Americans are NOT.

More to the "control" issue- governments have typically USED cities as a means of CONTROL for people. One of the main reasons the Germans used to bypass cities in WWII was there really wasn't much people in the cities COULD DO after there city was encircled. Sure factories could keep working for a time, till power generating stations were destroyed or raw materials (that don't grow in the city) ran out, but the Germans knew that by far and large, the cities were a TRAP more so than anything else. No wonder they put to seige places like Leningrad, Stalingrad, etc. Leningrad they never put much effort in to trying to take it. Why? If you could tie up 2 million people and just let them sit and spin (out of the fight, ineffective, unable to GO ANYWHERE) why wouldn't you?

See you, as a "citizen of the world" see the gubmint as a GOOD THING- note the "ensure health and security" part of your post- see people here in America are more used to providing there OWN security not relaying on the gubmint to do that for them. I don't however, expect a "citizen of the world" to understand that.

Years ago people were "astonished" when news articles here in the states regarding biological preparations stated that the gubmint would BLOCKADE CITIES AND QUARANTINE them. Bio outbreak of bird flu, sars, superaids, whatever, where is it going to be easier to CONTROL the spread from- cities or country? Where is it most likely to START? Egg Zach Lee.

See, you post stuff on how your dealing with things like: not being able to find food in the store, your wife getting mugged for her Ipod, etc. STATISTICALLY this will happen MORE in the city than the country.

I know, your typical response will be the normal- "in the country they will gang rape you for weeks on end, cut off your XXXX and feed it to the dogs and all the ugly little stories you like to tell- some much more graphic than necessary but are of good "shock" value and I guess to Johnny Sixpack living in the city who's foot never left pavement, probably scares the Bejesus out of him regarding the country. You and I know the truth that that sort of thing happens in the city as well.

And again, back to STATISTICS, it's mathematically MORE LIKELY to happen in the city than in the country.

More people around= more potential for trouble.


I do have a question about your statement-

"Run to the hills or to your retreat and you'l get fired... you do NOT want ot get fired during an economical crisis."

So your saying people should value MONEY over SAFETY AND SECURITY? Oh that's right, the gubmint will "ensure health and security"- I forgot. OK seriously, so Joe Blow should hold on to a $10. an hour job at all costs, even losing his family over it? How much is a son or daughter worth? Please answer this. You have a way of skirting questions.

I am not "expecting" the end of the world, but I guess that article was spot on re: the attacks :rolleyes: . However I have a MUCH BETTER life in the country than I ever did in or near the cities- and my income is as good or better when you consider I OWN everything I have. Unlike you, I've lived in BOTH THE CITY AND COUNTRY so I have a real comparison. See you might not put a price on stuff like not being able to find food, your wife getting mugged, for YOU those might just be inconveniences (as it would seem by reading your posts about those things happening to you) , for ME those would be REASONS TO GET THE HECK OUT OF DODGE! But some are just talkers I guess.:rolleyes:

I await your attacks, I mean reply..

Lowdown3
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thats quite a speach LD3 and if I'm honest i agree with some (a large proportion in fact) but not all of what you have to say.

The notion that you have to be living in the country to make it for instance, sorry I dont buy that at all. I'm in "suburbia" should anything of a large scale event take place its the "country" that the city folk'll be heading too when the food runs out and the diseases start taking hold, whether they know how to live off the land or not, they know what livestock and veggy's look like :taped: and you and your shotgun/sk/ak/whatever arent gonna be much of a deterent.

Still good post thanks for sharing.:thumb:
Thanks. And I agree wholeheartedly with you. A single person or family in the country will make it longer than those in the city, but probably not any longer than the FIRST attack on them. This is why you have to be serious about putting together a survival group. A real group will have a good balance of skills- PA's, Docs, gunsmiths, electricians, even "farmers" that some think are worthless but will prove themselves as worthwhile to a group as a good armorer or Doc.

Also, consider that for example we are 2 hours from any city of decent size. So let's say people pour out of Jacksonville. First off, there's 3 directions (they are on the coast) for people to go once they do leave, only maybe 30-40% will be ABLE to leave either because of :apathy, gubmint intervention, lack of physical ability (i.e, possibly having to walk), those with young kids and old folks. 2 hours is a fair distance away from a city here on the East coast of America. That's also a LOT of countryside for the few refugees that do make it further than the first 10 miles to get "thinned out" by others, stopped at blockades, die from thirst, starvation, disease, etc.

What you wrote actually kinda proves my point as the closer you are to the city the MORE of these refugees you'll have to deal with. "Closing the door" and pulling the shades down won't always be a viable answer and of course is a rather pi$$ poor defense.

Lowdown3
 

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the way I see it- do you love your family enough NOT to half-ass your preparations?
 
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Pablo- if the gubmint "ensures health and safety" why then do you post stuff like "we can't find food" SIX YEARS LATER? Kinda contradicts what you state huh?

Course most American's aren't big fans of SOCIALISM anyways. :rolleyes:
... Maybe it's me- but the only one who seems to be trying to insult and pick a fight- here anyway- is you, Lowdown... I don't know your history and I'm sure that's part of this- but for the love of Pete- his responses seemed perfectly reasonable and not at all "picking a fight". He just raised some issues that you didn't mention. Big deal. It's good for people to think about *everything*.

As to the question- if the government has aid to give, they will give it at the point where there are the most people in need of it- which is areas of largest populations. That doesn't necessarily mean they have enough for everyone though. So sure- many people would still be having a hard time finding food.
 

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... Maybe it's me- but the only one who seems to be trying to insult and pick a fight- here anyway- is you, Lowdown... I don't know your history and I'm sure that's part of this- but for the love of Pete- his responses seemed perfectly reasonable and not at all "picking a fight". He just raised some issues that you didn't mention. Big deal. It's good for people to think about *everything*.

As to the question- if the government has aid to give, they will give it at the point where there are the most people in need of it- which is areas of largest populations. That doesn't necessarily mean they have enough for everyone though. So sure- many people would still be having a hard time finding food.
I'm used to this guy starting crap everywhere, and maybe to you his insinuations didn't mean anything, but they were crystal clear to me- which is why I even explained what he was doing. It's like seeing someone that always shoots you the bird driving down the road, he does it for years, after a while you EXPECT him to always do it so you have your guard up.
 

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wow back on topic. there are advantages to both suburbia and country living i just think that country living is the way to go at least outside the city. i see it like this if your living in the city and shtf and last for a long time. say you run outta food and your one of the people whos morals won't let you farm in your neighbors backyard even though he hasn't been seen for the last month where are you gonna get your food? what about water? i'm just don't think city living is very viable. on a side note i do live in a small town with many sq. miles of farm land less than 100 feet away so there are exceptions to the rule. sorry my thinking isn't very linear today.
 

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... Maybe it's me- but the only one who seems to be trying to insult and pick a fight- here anyway- is you, Lowdown... I don't know your history and I'm sure that's part of this- but for the love of Pete- his responses seemed perfectly reasonable and not at all "picking a fight". He just raised some issues that you didn't mention. Big deal. It's good for people to think about *everything*.
He knows my name isn't "Pablo", but calls me that way instead of calling me "*******" or something like that that would be too obvious, show his true racist colors.

Guess that's his way of insulting people and thinking he gets away with it.

LowandDown posted:

Pablo- if the gubmint "ensures health and safety" why then do you post stuff like "we can't find food" SIX YEARS LATER? Kinda contradicts what you state huh?

Course most American's aren't big fans of SOCIALISM anyways.

Because you need to learn to read better. I never said, “we can’t find food”.
I said that we found that some products were missing, very expensive or hard to find (due to the Farmers crisis) .

That's waht happens in an economical crisis. Again, the way things are looking, won't be long until you see it for yourself.
And it's not just food, everything goes up.

It’s impossible to have an adult discussion with someone like you.

People that want to really understand what I mean can check my blog.

And I’d appreciate if you stopped insulting me by calling Pablo, that’s not my name and you know it perfectly well.

Let’s just say you are not the kind of person that should go around making fun of others. You certainly lack the …character.
Maybe another dip in your Cult master’s pond will make you feel better about yourself.

By the way, what kind of feeble-minded individual gets into a cult at age what, 40?
You remind me of those Goth kids and Emos, same lack of personality.

How did you get caught up in all that?

FerFAL
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
He knows my name isn't "Pablo", but calls me that way instead of calling me "*******" or something like that that would be too obvious, show his true racist colors.

Guess that's his way of insulting people and thinking he gets away with it.



Because you need to learn to read better. I never said, “we can’t find food”.
I said that we found that some products were missing, very expensive or hard to find (due to the Farmers crisis) .

That's waht happens in an economical crisis. Again, the way things are looking, won't be long until you see it for yourself.
And it's not just food, everything goes up.

It’s impossible to have an adult discussion with someone like you.

People that want to really understand what I mean can check my blog.

And I’d appreciate if you stopped insulting me by calling Pablo, that’s not my name and you know it perfectly well.

Let’s just say you are not the kind of person that should go around making fun of others. You certainly lack the …character.
Maybe another dip in your Cult master’s pond will make you feel better about yourself.

By the way, what kind of feeble-minded individual gets into a cult at age what, 40?
You remind me of those Goth kids and Emos, same lack of personality.

How did you get caught up in all that?

FerFAL

Last bunch of BS you started I said VERY CLEARLY THAT IF YOUR NAME WASN'T PABLO to tell me what it was and I'd use that!! You didn't and I HAVE SEEN YOUR NAME USED AS PABLO on other forums, so I continued to call you Pablo.

Nice try on the veiled racist accusations again, I think we covered that VERY CLEARLY in that last post you ruined when I explained that I had Godsons named Javier and Miguel.... So nice try bud.

You always revert to name calling when you can't win a debate.

Back to the topics and debate them or not? Going on with your personal attacks just proves my points that your "ideas" are bunk. DEBATE ME, PROVE ME WRONG instead of just making stupid accusations, trying to fantasize that I'm in a cult, etc. Good try in ruining another thread though :thumb:

If you can't debate me, STHU. :D:
 

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People that want to really understand what I mean can check my blog.
They don't have to check it out you and many others spam a lot of forums with your "new" blogs all the time(as of late), and some you find just to post your stuff because it goes against your views! Fine by me they aren't my forums/blogs but dang man, ya that desperate to get your name out there;)

Back on subject.

LD3 you bring up a very good point , actually many! I've been reading up on your blog,the channel and others places you post and it really does seem your are really living what most in the survival community preach! It truly is amazing what you can learn from someone with just a few minutes of face to face discussion and debate even if it was on a 12- 15 mile hike:thumb: you really do learn A LOT when you meet folks and not just read what they say!
I really don't see how anyone during a protracted "shtf" would even imagine living in an urban setting with a family. The point of living in New York city was brought up. I think in another thread or forum i read where NYC's crime rate is actually LOWER than buenos aires (google could get ya the real stats im sure)! Shocking to me since now FERFAL says he wont even live there, but chooses to live in a city that has such a high petty crime rate!

I really don't see any racist under tones to the "Pablo" name, i recently read a thread about a guy named Pablo on a different forum, i saw that you posted there as well and jumped that thread author and demanded that he stop talking about you even though you weren't named? paranoid maybe?

anyway, i find most of what you write ferfal full of info, while some i dont just don't get, again as i said before maybe its a US to SA thing ,language barrier,customs etc? I just know that "shtf" I wouldn't risk my families life for a good job, fancy house or the worldly wants of modern society! Maybe my priorities are different from yours as anyone else.

so urban- not good shtf,semi rural/rural g2g shtf
my 2 cents and opinion and ya know what they say about that!:thumb::D:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well he choose not to debate me but rather to start another post -ask me not to post in it- and try to sound like an "expert" giving information on why people should NOT move to the country and include more of his oh so clever little gigs relating to why people that live in the country are stupid ********.

Seems he has yet to learn that not everyone in the country is an ignorant hick that didn't finish school, doesn't make a living, etc. :xeye:

In essence, he's went for the stereotypical "dance off challenge" LMAO.

I can only assume that since he's afraid to debate, he realizes that since I've always proved him wrong FROM HIS OWN WORDS, that I will do that again :D:


It's always tough to debate someone who will defeat you by USING YOUR OWN WORDS AGAINST YOU. I guess that's what he fears?


I have nothing personal against you Pablo/whatever your name is, I just think you are DOOMING people to a horrible death by advocating "your ideas" that will leave them

1. In areas hardest hit by the collapse
2. In areas where there is LITTLE SECURITY- oh that's right the government provides "health and security"- I forgot the mantra of this "citizen of the world."

See for folks that don't know, Pablo/Ferfal/whatever hates when I post this stuff cause I USE HIS OWN WORDS TO CONVICT HIM. He relies on people being lazy and not going and researching the type of stuff he has actually posted and advocated in times past. Unfortunately I took a day of my time to do just that- IT WASN'T PRETTY.... And therefore this is where these terms like "citizen of the world" (Pab's own words describing himself) come from. I'M NOT INSULTING HIM, I'm referring to himself in the terms HE CALLED HIMSELF. When I mention his poor planning in that his wife got mugged and they "couldn't find food" this was in relation to posts he has made on Glocktalk, Arfcom and other places.

See the QUANDARY Pablo/Ferfal/whatever faces is this-

He got his "fifteen minutes of fame" years ago from claiming to have went through "TSHTF" when there economy collapsed in 2001. He made some posts on Frugals and a few other places that were good but were really just COMMON SENSE stuff- i.e, watch your back, don't flash jewelry or high dollar items in public, good locks on your doors, etc. COMMON SENSE stuff that any American that has ever lived in the "bad side of town" would know and instinctively DO (whether Pablo/Ferfal, I'll just call him PabFal since I've asked him for a first name and he's never acknowledged only to say Pablo wasn't correct, whether PabFal actually TOOK HIS OWN ADVICE is sketchy, but hey, that's for another time).

Anywhoo, so Ferfal got his fifteen minutes of fame but burnt out really quick.

Now here is his quandary-

He must post this "harrowing tales" of near misses, the wife getting mugged, things are STILL so bad down here 7 years later, we can't find food, etc.

SO THAT HE CAN STAY IN THE LIMELIGHT!

However, in doing so- it PROVES THAT HIS PLANNING SUCKED and what he advocates prep wise is incorrect!

Think about it- If you stated that you "won't take chances" with your families safety yet kept them in an area where- by your own account was STILL having difficulties 7 years later, and BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION you had the MEANS AND ABILITIES to emigrate but didn't.... Well somewhere along the line ONE PART of the story obviously can't be true. Either

A. Stuff really isn't that bad 7 years later. I.e, he got his blender fixed
or
B. He's full of fecal matter relating stuff like he "won't take chances" with his family.

One or the other isn't true....

I suggest folks look at the

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/

This is Pablo's hometown paper. First off, I don't see any pictures of bodies in the street, I don't see headlines like "5th police district still under siege" Course the REAL TSHTF news stories like someone's BLENDER not working properly (BTW, you KNOW TS has HTF when your BLENDER DOESN'T WORK, AND THEN YOUR MAID HAS TO SQUEEZE YOUR ORANGE JUICE!! Oh the humanity!!) are probably buried in the back somewhere... :rolleyes:

I'd still like to debate you Ferfal relating STRICTLY to the debate subject. I know your main tactic is to attack me personally, use slander, etc. Why not just debate the subject? Because YOUR OWN WORDS will convict you. So I guess it's easier to try to SIDETRACK the issue and derail a thread by slander, personal attacks, etc.

As I said previously, PROVE ME WRONG, debate me. :)
 

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How about you BOTH STFU in relation to your interpersonal issue. The rest of us have no desire to read about it all over THIS board. Some of us appreciate and enjoy Fer-FAL's posts and blog. Let us appreciate them in peace.



Last bunch of BS you started I said VERY CLEARLY THAT IF YOUR NAME WASN'T PABLO to tell me what it was and I'd use that!! You didn't and I HAVE SEEN YOUR NAME USED AS PABLO on other forums, so I continued to call you Pablo.

Nice try on the veiled racist accusations again, I think we covered that VERY CLEARLY in that last post you ruined when I explained that I had Godsons named Javier and Miguel.... So nice try bud.

You always revert to name calling when you can't win a debate.

Back to the topics and debate them or not? Going on with your personal attacks just proves my points that your "ideas" are bunk. DEBATE ME, PROVE ME WRONG instead of just making stupid accusations, trying to fantasize that I'm in a cult, etc. Good try in ruining another thread though :thumb:

If you can't debate me, STHU. :D:
 

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shame had the beginings of a good debate. :(
very true smudge.
it seems like every time a direct question or fact is asked it is dodged and turned into a "flame" fest. It does get old seeing someone call other "survivalist" and preparedness minded folks cult leaders, racist ********, idiots etc .True or not, a debate is not a slander throwing death match nor is it a forum bash either(constant anti frugal undertone).
Personally maybe we should have a debate thread, if the answers cant be given, if slander,attacks and rude comments cant be kept out of the debate the admin or mod locks that person's account pretty simple if you ask me.:thumb:

Let us appreciate them in peace.
so if you like J.Rawels and i do not and i say i do not, and we disagree i should just move on and stop saying JW sucks , while you can continue saying he is the best.. "in peace". No one should question whats written on the web? I don't think it works that way MB;)

There is a lot of mis-information on the web. From stuff as basic as shelter building,to gear reviews of untested gear! Look around at what you read here or at other forums. Think of something you haven't tried,own or used. Now, lets say i have a blog,2 million post and have this internet persona survival guru thing going. If i said
" walmart ponchos are the best ever, shtf you will truly be outta luck if you don't have one.."
will you blindly go buy one and never use it or will you buy one and use it or maybe better research the product more before even buying?
The same point goes into planning and preps. If you don't prep or plan with an open mind you will doom yourself and family! your TRULY have to sift through the chaff to find the info anymore as everyone is a "guru" of sorts these days when it comes to survival. The more you "DO" the more you will truly see WHO has or is doing this for real and who is just writing about it!

Does Ferfal have some great info, he sure does. There's plenty to be had, from the stuff he has written 5+ years ago. Ive gone through and read A LOT of his writings the last few weeks since he joined here. Not just here but various blogs, other web forums and private blogs that he has responded to- google is your friend! His newer or more recent writings though are nothing better than what other posters have written across the net in the past . Its not some epiphany to many on the advice he gives, maybe to some that are new to "survival" or are going into this closed minded. Heck I'm semi new to survival but I'm going the research route-find the truth more or less!
That's just my take as I've said to ferfal before i think some of what he writes has merit, some of the other stuff i just cant get a grasp on as its makes zero sense, again this could be a US vs SA deal there as our countries are totally different!

so till we have a true debate to answer some questions I'll continue doing what i think is right, researching the facts and making my own educated decisions on how i should prep for my family !

my 2cents:thumb:
 
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