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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Is it me or does it seem there is not enough emphasis on winter conditions during SHTF? or teotwawki. no grid. not reliant on guzoline machines. :)mad:max)

Thoughts on?

Snow removal/plowing while trying to conserve energy. like snow shovels!
Security, patrolling your BOL.
Guard posts
Elements shielding.
Anything else.

This thread has more to do with your BOL infrastructure/layout then individual clothing choices/heating.
 

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I think that if TSHTF snow removal wouldn't be a top priority.
 

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I need to deal with about 5-6 full months of winter. I have an ATV that i use to clear snow, but I assume you are talking about some sort of post apocalyptic scenario.

If you have lots of snow in your area, get a good set (or two) of snow shoes and back country skies and practice. Snow shoes in particular aren't the easiest thing to walk around on. You can pretty quickly pack down a trail to the outhouse or the food cache or wherever else you need to go. If you are worried about security, if you walk about, others will see your trail and you can see theirs.

I have lots of different snow shovels, some work well on the powdery stuff, some on the hard packed icy stuff, etc. There is no way around it, you'll get a good workout.

You will need to supplement your diet towards more fat in the winter, this is sometime challenging as most game meat is lean.

Log cabins are amazingly good at retaining heat once you get your wood stove going.

Water is a bigger challenge than you might think in the winter. Extremely cold weather can also impact the operation of guns if you use typical lubricants.

If you want to know what its like to thrive in the middle of now where without power tools and other modern stuff read Richard Proenneke's stuff. I am reading one of his now that's a compilation of his journals over the course of a few decades. There are some more professional books where authors turned his journals into a book. All will give you a pretty good feel of what daily life and chores are all about in the wilderness.
 

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First, you have to realize you won't be going anywhere, so plowing a driveway probably doesn't matter.

Patrolling your property - that's not gonna be fun in deep snow. I'd suggest good tall boots + gaiters so you keep your pants dry. Snow shoes.

For your home and other buildings, consider getting a snow rake. You can't risk ice dams or roof collapse in deep snow!
 

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First, you have to realize you won't be going anywhere, so plowing a driveway probably doesn't matter.

Patrolling your property - that's not gonna be fun in deep snow. I'd suggest good tall boots + gaiters so you keep your pants dry. Snow shoes.

For your home and other buildings, consider getting a snow rake. You can't risk ice dams or roof collapse in deep snow!
I have a decent set of Snowshoes, and after I get patrol paths packed down they stay that way til' spring as long as I make sure to go out often.
I also use them to make trails for my Cats to use in the yard.
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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First, you have to realize you won't be going anywhere, so ...
Why? That is the best time for traveling.

Rivers, lakes and ponds are frozen over. You do not need bridges anymore. We go straight across then. Routes between any two places are way shorter in winter.



... Patrolling your property - that's not gonna be fun in deep snow. I'd suggest good tall boots + gaiters so you keep your pants dry. Snow shoes.
hmm, dry?

To be wet means your above 32F. In winter nearly all water is solid, except down under the ice, in the rivers.

The only 'wet in winter' is from your own sweating.



... For your home and other buildings, consider getting a snow rake. You can't risk ice dams or roof collapse in deep snow!
Most homes here have shifted to steel roofs, and dumped the roof rakes.

Ice dams are bad. I have never had one, but I know people who have. Poorly designed homes suck.
 

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Yup trails are the way to go. When I was in AK. even the roads just kept getting thicker and thicker packed snow. Worked fine as long as it stayed COLD. You have a lot better traction on really cold ice. But watch out during the spring breakup.

Security in the winter will have pluses and minuses. Hopefully you will be in a nice warm shelter and bad guys will be getting thinned out. I don't think I will want to be patrolling if there is snow on the ground. You will be making tracks that might draw rif raf. I believe that I will prefer a watch post on my highest ground and watching for other folks tracks. I also hope to have security cameras to cover possible sniper hides in my yard. Again, I stay warm let the bad guys freeze.

I am purpously building a small house. We will be very crowded, but in my situation fuel to heat living space will be limited. We also get some glorious nice winter days here and so we can get out and get chores done and let the married couples use summer housing to cohabitate.

Ice fishing would be a great way to use long periods of inactivity to gather some protein, BUT anyone on ice would be a sitting duck for predators.
 

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I love winter. If you live in minnesota you kinda have to. Get a big dog to help patrol around the property. they know something isn't right long before you do. "Chomper, sic balls"....oh, get a snowmobile....and a wood stove. And if someone plugs me while I'm ice fishing then I'm alright with that...can't live forever.
 

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. And if someone plugs me while I'm ice fishing then I'm alright with that...can't live forever.
You are right, a man otta die happy.

But maybe it could be done without dying, and you could fish another day. How about taking a couple plastic totes full of dirt or something similar that would stop bullets along and a good rifle. If a predator doesn't get you the first shot then you take cover until it gets dark.

Another winter consideration. Solar heating can help you a lot. I built an ice shanty that was well insulated on all sides except one, where I had a 3X8' plastic window. Turn that side into the sun and it quickly got hot.

I have a sunroom on my current house with the south wall mostly windows. Lot of heat generated there.

I am building a house and it has a porch with big windows on the south side. I'll leave the door open on sunny days and harvest a lot of free heat.
 

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We don't plan on clearing more of the road than we have too (hiding in plain sight so to speak) just to the well and barns. Perimeter patrol is a lot easier in the winter due to underbrush being dormant, having a dog helps too.

Sound travels for miles. We are usually pretty quiet anyways but in the winter more so because it seems like sound travels very far up here. The valley acts almost like a megaphone sometimes.
 

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Don't forget to stock up on proper clothing. I always hit the end-of-season sales and stock up on polypro/silk underwear at super low prices. I have several dozen pairs as part of my preps. Remember that dirty clothing loses some of its insulating ability, and you're probably not going to be able to do laundry as often in the winter. Since most people tend to sweat a lot more while working in winter you'll want to change your clothing more often.
 

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I'll do you one better... If (and this is a big if) stuff went bad, I think most humans would migrate south and coastal to avoid areas of heavy snow.

You can get a snow plow, that's fine. But if things are that level of bad, where exactly are you going to drive to? If there is nothing to get to, then all your are doing is clearing snow around your compound.

Arctic outposts for NOAA and NSF labs usually have two small plows to clear off the surrounding areas. Then they have cattrax and snowmobiles to actually get places when needed.
 

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Other things to consider. Your pant legs, when walking through deep snow, will get damp from your boots and your body. They will then freeze and your pant legs will be hard. Not a big deal until you thaw. Also diesel will/can gel in cold weather. Winter gas is more potent. Not as many additives so running winter stuff on summer gas maybe harder.

As for structures, pile up the snow around your house. This increases insulation and keeps wind out of cracks and keeps drafts out.

Scavenging dead animals is a possibility if the temps are cold enough to freeze the meat quickly. Beware if other carnivores!

Heating with wood heats you 3 times. When you cut, when you split, and when you burn it. Splitting is MUCH easier at 10*F and colder. The wood "pops" and is much quicker to finish. Hardwoods are for a nice long burn but to start pine is nice. Pine pitch the size of a marble and 3-5 pine comes will start most fires.
 

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I'll do you one better... If (and this is a big if) stuff went bad, I think most humans would migrate south and coastal to avoid areas of heavy snow.

You can get a snow plow, that's fine. But if things are that level of bad, where exactly are you going to drive to? If there is nothing to get to, then all your are doing is clearing snow around your compound.

Arctic outposts for NOAA and NSF labs usually have two small plows to clear off the surrounding areas. Then they have cattrax and snowmobiles to actually get places when needed.
In Northern Maine a lot of folks are already off-grid and/or familiar with living here.

I do not anticipate huge numbers of zombies coming North from NYC / Hartford / Boston because as you said they will migrate South.

Our current population-density runs from 1 to 10 people per square-mile, it may go up some I doubt it will go up more than 20 per square-mile. Any increased population will likely migrate away after the first winter. That is what happens now. People migrate here every year >60% leave after 1 or 2 winters.

There are a lot of private-owned and club-owned cattrax here too. We have over 16,000 miles of sled trails in the state.
 

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Like have been said, there are pluses and minuses:
1. Security is enhanced on a larger scale. Whatever geographical features reducing number of would be visitors you area possesses will be strengthened.
2. The usefulness of tactical obstacles will be reduced; with enough snow become non-existed. One solution is prepare detailed plans and materials for "floating" obstacles (located above the snow).
3. The BOL itself must be designed with unusual amount of snow in mind. For example, the roofs must be as steep as possible (60 degrees, and never less than 45 degrees) and made of metal. The steep roof, properly designed, would allow entering and exiting the house even with 10-15 feet of snow on the ground.
4. The biggest problem would be bugging out of the cities, especially in areas with minimum of snow currently, since people rarely think about such things. There would be fewer ambushes (probably); on the other hand, everyone moving would stick out and visible at very long distances, leaving tracks in the snow. White camo would be paramount.
 

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like others have said, you typically don't plow a large area, it's mostly just done with a shovel/snow blower so you can get out to the shed,wood pile, snomobiles/cat...

clothing, dress in layers and go with wool or synthetic, no cotton... if you have issues with your clothes freezing your not wearing the right stuff, at the very least invest in some $30 gaiters.

snowshoes, get the mountaineering type, this is shtf we are talking about here, if you live in an mountainous area the snow shoes with the built in crampons are going to be superior for going up and down frozen slopes.... the other more pervelant kind are perfectly fine for low lands and trail walking, but if you are really trying to trek of trial i wouldn't use anything other than the MSR crampon type snow shoes.

getting around long(er) distance, snowmobile or skijoring...

snomobile is the #1 way to get around if you got to go a ways...skijoring is how i get to the neighbors during the winter, i use a rock climbing harness strapped to my two malamute mixes, otherwise a couple piece of webbing and riggers belt will get it done in a pinch... if you don't have dogs look into randonee,telemark or cross country skis... I'd look at cross country skis last if you live in the steep mountainous areas, other wise cross country skis are fine for the low lands and such.

wood stove is a must, other heating sources are fine but you must have a wood stove in the mix somewhere...
 

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... 3. The BOL itself must be designed with unusual amount of snow in mind. For example, the roofs must be as steep as possible (60 degrees, and never less than 45 degrees) and made of metal. The steep roof, properly designed, would allow entering and exiting the house even with 10-15 feet of snow on the ground.
Homes have existed for a century or more, with deep snow most winters.

45 to 60 degree roofs? There are some. Look around there are plenty that are not so steep. My roof has 1 in 12 slope.

Metal roofs are becoming more popular. My entire house is steel.

Exterior doors on the second floor are also very popular here.

It does not take any special design for a dwelling to function in snow country. Look around there are plenty homes already existing.



... 4. The biggest problem would be bugging out of the cities, especially in areas with minimum of snow currently, since people rarely think about such things. There would be fewer ambushes (probably); on the other hand, everyone moving would stick out and visible at very long distances, leaving tracks in the snow. White camo would be paramount.
Very few people will bug-out starting in a no-snow region and travel into a deep snow region.

I do not think that you have much experience in deep snow.
 
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