Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Red White and Blue
Joined
·
6,251 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
news report; Wind Farms are killing birds without penalty while oil companies are fined for far fewer birdkills.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...gleNewsEditorsPicks&google_editors_picks=true

"A study funded by the Alameda County Community Development Agency estimated that 10,000 birds – almost all that are protected by the migratory bird act – are being killed every year at the wind farm in Altamont Pass, Calif.
“The Altamont Pass wind farm does not face the same threat of prosecution, even though the bird kills at Altamont have been repeatedly documented by biologists since the mid-1990s,” Robert Bryce, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute’s Center for Energy Policy and the Environment, said.
“Biologists believe Altamont, which uses older turbine technology, may be the worst example. But that said, the carnage there likely represents only a fraction of the number of birds killed by windmills,” Bryce told FoxNews.com.
In 2009, ExxonMobil pleaded guilty in federal court to killing 85 birds that came into contact with crude oil and other pollutants in uncovered tanks and wastewater facilities on its property. The birds were protected by the federal act and the company agreed to pay $600,000 in fines. Over the past decade, federal officials have brought hundreds of similar cases against big energy companies operating across the country."

liberal media/politicians turning a blind eye to wind power?
 

·
Follow your own star
Joined
·
1,905 Posts
"The most common obstacles that are hazardous to migrating birds include tall buildings, electrical wires and poles, wind turbines and similar structures."

"Pollution such as lead poisoning or oil spills is not only harmful to locally affected birds, but to migratory birds as well."

"Many hunting seasons coincide with migration periods, making this perilous time even more threatening for birds."

http://birding.about.com/od/Threats/a/Threats-To-Migrating-Birds.htm

Towers Kill 6.8 Million Birds a Year, Study Estimates
http://www.livescience.com/19908-migratory-birds-killed-towers.html
 

·
A Hoosier not a Hillbilly
Joined
·
3,016 Posts
600,000 for 85 birds? I find that a little steep. Thank our luck stars and new oil field discoveries that the price of gas is comin' down...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,302 Posts
Why limit it to windfarms? How many animals are killed in fields, on roadways, in travel canals every year? How many birds are killed in those big borax drying pools? Why is Fox only reporting on this now?

Because it's all BS spin, that's why. It's not liberal bias, it's no one gives a damn either way and just use this crap to push their own agendas.
 

·
Red White and Blue
Joined
·
6,251 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Why limit it to windfarms? How many animals are killed in fields, on roadways, in travel canals every year? How many birds are killed in those big borax drying pools? Why is Fox only reporting on this now?
Because it's all BS spin, that's why. It's not liberal bias, it's no one gives a damn either way and just use this crap to push their own agendas.
considering the penalties for causing the death of a single Eagle, getting away with killing 2,000 seems excessive. and where are all the environmentalists? no one seems to care, because no one is reporting this (except Fox).
(presumably environmentalists don't watch Fox much)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,302 Posts
considering the penalties for causing the death of a single Eagle, getting away with killing 2,000 seems excessive. and where are all the environmentalists? no one seems to care, because no one is reporting this (except Fox).
(presumably environmentalists don't watch Fox much)
And you can rest assured Fox doesn't care in the slightest other than to further the oil objective. Again, where are all the articles on the deaths from various other industries that go unpunished? It's tit-for-tat nonsense.
 

·
Red White and Blue
Joined
·
6,251 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Meh, one hurricane kills more birds in one day than all the wind farms and oil spills in the world in a lifetime...
...which makes one wonder why oil and other companies are even prosecuted in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
Can't have that evil 'green' power source. How would big oil make money if wind and solar was actually affordable and more popular?

Coal plants cause pollution, so they shut them down.
Nuke plants are dangerous so they shut them down.

Oh hell just shut down the entire power grid because it might kill some beetle, frog, fish, or bird.

How will that shiny new iPhone or iPad work without power?
 

·
Red White and Blue
Joined
·
6,251 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Can't have that evil 'green' power source. How would big oil make money if wind and solar was actually affordable and more popular?
Oh hell just shut down the entire power grid because it might kill some beetle, frog, fish, or bird.

How will that shiny new iPhone or iPad work without power?

Problem is, neither wind nor solar are anywhere near affordable. Our tax $ subsidize the green while we leave coal and oil in the ground.
If solar was found to kill birds the gummint would leave them alone too.

How many readers ever heard about how dangerous the turbines are to birds?
 

·
Weed 'em and reap
Joined
·
30,792 Posts
The headlines to the articles posted throughout this thread don't even approach the threshold of any plausible "Test of Reasonableness." To wit:

Hunting seasons do not threaten migratory birds. Hunters have no desire to kill and eat the scrawny species which are allegedly struggling for survival. Furthermore, you would be safer if you were invisible and descending by parachute in the woods during turkey season, than if you were invisible and descending by parachute in any urban area. The number of rounds and shells fired at game birds are certainly large, but if they were plotted on a massive piece of paper, they would represent a small percentage of a percentage of a percentage...and on and on...of a percentage of the sky. The odds of accidentally hitting a migrating bird are one in a bazzillion.

Buildings, wind farms, and other obstructions DO, in fact, kill birds. So, in fact, did my in-laws' bay window. Dang pigeon flew right into it and died. So? We're not talking about a tragedy more deadly than if those buildings weren't there. If you look at the wind farms, you don't see a rare-bird graveyard at the foot of each tower. Yes, the birds occasionally get thwacked. They also, occasionally, fly into trees, mountains, hurricanes, tornadoes, and the bare ground. Whoop-di-doo.

Oil spills and lead shot can, of course, kill birds. And gender-bender surgery post-op drugs urinated into toilets are affecting fish. And cinnamon and nutmeg used in holiday recipes finds its way into waterways and affects waterfowl. How far are we going to take this before it gets ridiculous?

In the end, we need to keep in mind that we're talking about animals, not people. Should we try to kill them needlessly? No. Should we take reasonable measures to prevent massive die-offs? Yes. But should we obsess over them to the point where stewardship becomes reverence and even brinks on worship? Certainly not.

I understand that the OP was being a bit facetious in pointing out that "green" technologies aren't necessarily "green." But there are people out there taking this stuff seriously, and their concerns aren't altruistic; they simply want an excuse to crash the economy and institute more control over people. Let's not lend them any credence.
 

·
Silver Wings
Joined
·
11,356 Posts
I'm holding a lease for an as yet to be built wind farm, and I ain't likin' this thread one bit. :cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: dethmaul

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,282 Posts
Well we could always go back to burning rediculios amounts of coal for power, then we would only kill more of the O-zone, and no one would get fined a penny for killing any birds.
 

·
Prepared
Joined
·
15,924 Posts
We all rely on energy and they all have issues, so you need to pick your poison:

1. Oil -- one of the chief causes of warfare over the 20th century, and the reason America is fighting a permanent neo-colonial war in the Mideast. Publicly subsidized wars for globally-traded Big Oil. Racketeering, controlled largely by the Saudis.

2. Coal -- dirty to mine, dirty to burn.

3. Nuclear -- massively subsidized, plants are often built/engineered by foreign companies (Japanese, German, etc.). Potential for huge calamity, no political solution for the waste.

4. Solar. Takes up space.

5. Wind. Kills birds? Maybe put icons of owls on the blades, and experiment with acoustics to drive them away?

6. Geothermal. Venting bad gas?

I dunno, take your pick. Unless you want to live like the Amish, you'll need to pick something. I've been to a few windfarms myself, and walked among the towers. Don't recall seeing any dead birds. Maybe this is the nuclear or oil lobby tossing out some disinformation?
 

·
Survivor
Joined
·
5,533 Posts
This has been an issue for a while and environmentalists & scientists are fully aware of it. I actually just finished a research paper a couple months ago on the very subject.

Wind energy is a noble source, but has been too highly commercialized and like everything else has become dangerous. The issue is the large fields used by migrating birds/bats and hunting raptors. It is a cleaner and safer technology compared to fossil fuels. But no energy is without risks or impacts.

The newer windmills are trying to integrate technology (auditory and visual warning as well as placement mitigation) to minimize impacts on birds and lessen habitat disturbance and fragmentation. But wind power in general is not as efficient or safe as tidal or renewable natural gas.

the 2010 estimate put the US numbers at around 100,000 a year known bird fatalities by wind turbines. It is one of many issues to be addressed as energy technology progresses. I know there is plenty of sneering and lumping science into political agenda, but thats like lumping AR's in Assault rifles. The rate of biodiversity decline is unprecedented across the globe. Windmills are only a small part of the pie so they are not high priority in MSM and news.

Right now in the wildlife field we are focused on reducing anthropogenic habitat fragmentation and destruction which is the number one cause of wildlife mortality as of present. There's been an emerging trend over the past 5-10 years with wildlife adapting to urban areas because they have no place to go. And sadly city folk tend to freak out when a friendly black bear wanders by their yard.

Back on topic, in the scheme of bird mortality, wind turbines are only a fraction of deaths with the majority caused by building strikes and closely followed or possibly surpassed by domestic pet and invasive species attacks. The issue with the turbines is that most of our raptors and bats are becoming endangered. And as the only flying mammal in the world, bats serve a very critical role in keeping the skeeters at bay.
 

·
Prepared
Joined
·
15,924 Posts
Sounds like you're not very willing to identity the problems and improve the situation (political response?). All engineering is about identifying issues and making improvements. I see no theoretical or physical reason that these turbines couldn't be built away from known migratory paths, with outlines of predator birds on the blades to scare most birds away, acoustic and other experiments, etc. Again, I'd be curious to see a ground photo littered with dead birds or some solid empirical evidence where this massive damage is occurring, and whether any of my simple suggestions -- or more -- haven't been tried. And if not, why not.

In any case, my bet is on geothermal and hydrogen. There's a virtually unlimited source of heat directly below anyone, and no living creature (beyond microbial) would be affected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
Problem is, neither wind nor solar are anywhere near affordable. Our tax $ subsidize the green while we leave coal and oil in the ground.
If solar was found to kill birds the gummint would leave them alone too.

How many readers ever heard about how dangerous the turbines are to birds?
Actually, I remember hearing Ted Nugent in an interview pointing out how crazy the enviro-nazis were because they were trying to get a wind farm shut down over bird kills. It was before Comrade Obama was prez. & I think it was on youtube but, it may have been on T.V.. Uncle Ted was saying the libs don't want drilling but, they don't want enviro-friendly wind farms either. :upsidedown:

I never heard if the wind farm actually got shut down or not but, I never forgot how crazy it was for the enviro-nazis to be against wind power.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top