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If there is trade it will always be a version of what we have now. You'll have some market, where people go to trade or sell to people they don't now. People with a supply of goods will just trade directly with one another is my guess, and take surplus to some market. Even if the trading is just done through informal networks, someone will set up even a flea market type set up.

there is a point where in a SHTF, in theory anyways, and the chances are small, that - you're not going to shop at a grocery with your credit card for a while. I don't think we'll see that, but I think we could see food riots, as prices going up and up, and going to just tear into lower income groups in a major way. I've eaten some foods from discount grocery stores over the years, just to see what it is like - and I'd riot too. I forget the name of the grocery, but it was super cheap, and I didn't recognize any of the brands. We made Tacos, and nothing tasted like anything - it was messed up. Nobody should eat whatever crap that was. I'd rather eat rice and beans, or canned foods. It was terriblle, all the vegetables were like this as well. It was like someone blasted it with a raygun, and it just sucked 80% of whatever is in food that makes it good, was removed. Everything sucked, every last thing - and I'm not a picky eater, and if it is what is made - whatever it is, I'll happily eat it - I'm one of those. If someone served me food from one of those grocery stores, I think I might complain - even as a guest. I'd riot too I guess .... lol
 

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Let the Arabs drink all their diesel. I can make my own...


Yes, I really have made bio-diesel... it's easier than you think. YouTube is full of complete how-to videos on bio-diesel.

It's why I insisted on getting a diesel car.. not petrol. I will never be trapped in my home. No one puts baby in a corner!
Outstanding work!
 

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I highly recommend Selcos books. If you don't have a clue as to how bad the intertribal warfare will be in a Diversity is our Strength, multicultural society, it will give you some good ideas.
Expect kindness, goodwill toward men and compassion to be words.
Mothers and women will engage in some very distasteful commerce to procure food for children and self.
Killing people who appear dissimilar to one's own group will become the norm in some circumstances.
Figure hygiene, medical care and neighborliness to be things of the past...
Sounds like Utopia, doesn't it?


Sounds like L.A.


Sky World Plant Font Fence
 

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Why go shopping at all? Everything can be bought online and delivered home.

No risk of thieves.
Not everything.

But there is certainly plenty of risk of thieves. Perhaps even more.
Are you able to ensure that someone will be home? Porch Pirates are becoming more common.
Delivery people are in a hurry and sometimes leave packages in awful places. I have often had USPS or even UPS leave a package on the ground by the mailbox. This is on a country road with no other houses in sight. If someone had seen it and wanted to, they could have easily stopped and picked it up and no one would have known.
Usually they will leave packages on the porch. If someone had seen the UPS truck drop something off, they could easily drive back and pick it up after he's gone.

The risk is perhaps different. But it is still very much there.
 

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Not everything.
Over here... everything. I do most of my shopping online now. Including minor stuff like eggs, milk, bread.

If I happen to be going out for some reason then yeah, I'll pick up some stuff because it'll be on my way. Otherwise I have no reason to go shopping.

If I order vegetables, meat, etc. before 12 noon, I get it by 3, 4, in the afternoon. If I order later, I get it next morning. Works for me.

Are you able to ensure that someone will be home?
I have to be home. Or the delivery guy goes back.

I have to pay him for the stuff when he shows up. We don't use credit cards.

Delivery people are in a hurry and sometimes leave packages in awful places.
If they do that here, I can get him fired. One phone call.

We are dealing with a company called Daraz (100% owned by AliBaba). I use them most often. And they use their own delivery people except for the heavy stuff.

If you can get fired from Amazon in 5 minutes, you can get fired from a Chinese company in 5 seconds.
 

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This is kind of related to what we are talking about in this thread... shootout at a supermarket:


During the Soviet Afghan war, I escaped getting killed by 5 minutes. Russian agents blew up a music store (this was way before the internet) where I had been 5 minutes earlier.

Thank goodness for ordering stuff over the internet. I am safest at home. The world is becoming weird.
 

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True but it's enough for my needs. I can go get supplies from wherever.

Can biodiesel support the food distribution chain? No... it can't. You are correct. But something is better than nothing.
Of course “if” the problem is widespread and the supply chain is broken…..you might use that diesel fuel to power your tractor to raise your own fuel!

If things get bad, travel is not something that is advisable…..even if groceries/supplies may be available! Jus Say’n! 😉 memtb
 
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Yep.

When we all had covid, we didn't go shopping. We got everything ordered online.


I am sure you must be able to order vegetables, soap, toothpaste, etc. over the internet in America.


But you won't be robbed. The poor delivery guy might get robbed but you won't lose any money.
In our area, grocery store produce is marginal…..I can’t imagine getting “mail order”! Hell….it would be compost when it got here! 😁 memtb
 
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you might use that diesel fuel to power your tractor to raise your own fuel!
Exactly.

Hell….it would be compost when it got here!
I live in the third largest city on earth... I think delivering veggies happens only in large cities for us. If I were living outside the city, I wouldn't have this option.

I find the vegetables are better quality ... usually bigger in size... than in the bazaar. I have no idea where they are getting them from. Seems like Chinese have bought land somewhere outside the city just for growing and delivering online groceries. And/Or they have specially chosen local farms to support their business.
 

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What are you talking about? My friends in SF haven't mentioned any shopping risks. Neither have my family members in L.A. Nor have I encountered or observed any at the Costco in Santa Rosa.

I get that everyone loves to hate California, but that's no reason to make stuff up when people are trying to have a serious conversation about risks and how to mitigate them.

Let's try to keep actual survivalism discussions fact-based.
Did your friends in LA mention the railway system that apparently gets robbed on a weekly basis?
 

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I guess that I view the SHTF a bit differently than many. I don’t consider “regionalized” SHTF (Rodney King Riots, New Orleans Katrina, ect.) situations as an honest SHTF scenario! Yes, these were terrible events for those involved, but these and many other events were pretty regionally limited! When the SHTF nationwide …..it will be a much different world. When it becomes nationwide, there will be no online shopping, nothing on grocery store shelves (no one working the stores and no one making deliveries), and nowhere to drive (if you can) to get supplies!

When it gets to this point, this is the situation that a true prepper/survivalist is at least somewhat prepared for! Until that point is reached…..it’s mostly a big inconvenience for the vast majority of us.

However, the dominoes are starting to fall! What’s beginning to happen in the US is spreading to beyond a regional problem! So you ask yourself…..is this temporary or will it continue to get worse?

As usual…..just my opinion! memtb
 

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I gues my SHTF is way, way worse than everyone else.
My SHTF scenario isn't me losing my job, my gf getting pregnant, or my mom asking me to move out.
It is the complete collapse of this nation. No amazon. No internet. No cell phones. And mostly likely, no power.

Anything else is not SHTF, just life. I have dealt with bad stuff before and survived just fine. And will again.
But my SHTF is where we have become that 3rd world country.
And from what I see, most people will not survive. Including those on this forum.
We need to get off our mama's milk and see our failing country through our eyes, without those rose colored glasses.

I have been prepping for over 20 years.
I don't prep for a toothache event. I prepare for the worst.
When the caca has really hit the air machine.

Thats all. Feel free to return to your survivor video games. :)
 

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I see posts about getting things delivered.
Did you not see the SHTF world part of the thread title?
Expecting UPS or FedEx to send out easily-hijacked trucks full of goods seems illogical.
Expecting delivery drivers to drive them in that situation seems foolish.
Expecting them to also accept and carry cash? :rolleyes:
Maybe if they trade those brown trucks in for tanks.
 

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UPS or FedEx
I don't know what those are.

Expecting them to also accept and carry cash?
I don't "expect" them to carry and receive cash... I know they do it everyday.

easily-hijacked trucks
Motorbikes. Sometimes pickup trucks.

It depends on the SHTF scenario but I can tell you one thing for sure. They will be delivering for longer than I can keep going.
 
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