I previously poo-poo'd tactical pens but now am giving them serious consideration.

 

I was the same way with tactical pens and kubatons, but just recently bought tactical pens for me and my wife. The only problem I see with the tactical pen is that I don't have shirt pockets and there is no place to really carry them on me unless I have a jacket/coat. My wife can of course carry one in her purse.

 

Glad your wife survived the ordeal.

What is "complicated" about stun guns?

http://www.policemart.com/stun-guns.html

Years back my wife was assaulted at a ATM teller machine at night. Her purse carry stun gun put the perp down & repeated allocation kept him down until the police arrived.

We also keep a vehicle type window breaker in the drivers door boot of our vehicles.
They make a good weapon in close quarters.

 

We also keep a vehicle type window breaker in the drivers door boot of our vehicles.
They make a good weapon in close quarters.

We have one of these in each vehicle that's instantly accessible for all kinds of problems. Having SOMETHING available at an instant's notice, even if it isn't the best thing, can certainly help restore some of the confidence that was lost.

 

Was her window open? Was she is inside the car and he outside the car?

maybe she had fully gotten out? Just trying to picture the scene accurately.

 

The window was closed. He outside. She still sitting.

Regarding the glass breaker, he was between her and the door, where the glass breaker was. The stun gun is complicated for many reasons.
1. Charge must be monitored.
2. Wrist lanyard must be put on so gun cannot be used against you.
3. Flashlight option is nice but stun and flashlight work dependently.
4. Once stun setting is on, must press other button for discharge.
5. Must get in intimate contact with perp.

 

if you cant reach into a purse, pocket, or other location to grab a handgun, you wont be able to use those same actions to grab that kubaton or a stun gun either, that said that kubaton will take a significant amount of strength to do any serious damage with and a stun gun may fail with heavy clothing

there are ways you can carry a handgun where if someone is holding your neck, you can reach for with one hand, and a revolver would be capable of being fired from inside a purse, through the fabric, and into the perp without malfunctioning, a pen and a stun gun will have to be fully removed before it can be used.. youre still better off with a gun

 

if you cant reach into a purse, pocket, or other location to grab a handgun, you wont be able to use those same actions to grab that kubaton or a stun gun either,

Right. That is why these other products are specifically acquired to have at the ready.

 

90% of women with a Kubaton will just **** off their attacker and get hurt worse. If you can grab a kubaton or stun gun (or a purse), you can grab a firearm.

 

Profoundly disagree. You can keep a kuboton openly on keys on the passenger seat ready at a second's notice if you need it. Mast places would frown at a similarly accessible hand gun.

Also you don't need huge force with one to hurt an attacker. A smart thrust to the face or overhangs on his had Will give you the space you need for an escape.

As an aside how comfortable would you feel about setting off a firearm in a station? With vapour and pumps and gas all over? Not sure I would unless I was a dann good shot and even then...

 

This makes no sense to me. A kubaton seems like a death wish, a great way for a woman to get beaten, choked, stabbed, or shot to death.. I can draw sitting down in a vehicle without a problem.

 

Training and practice.
Training and practice.
Training and practice.

Because blitz attacks are hard to defend against. It has to be an automatic response.

I was once accosted by two beligerant drunks. Not in an immediate threatening manner. But because my attention was elsewhere and I didn't recognize their intentions they closed on me from over 100 feet away in less than three seconds.
Not much time to assess and draw even at full awareness.
(I was out of state so could not CC anyway)

 

100 ft in 3 secs = 33-1/3 fps = 22.7 mph. Fastest drunks ever!
These guys would give Usain Bolt a run for his money!
[U-Bolts' fastest 100m time (Berlin 2009) was 9.81 seconds = 22.8 mph. ].
I think those drunks ran so fast, they induced time dilation! Just messing with ya, geezer. :

PeterEnergy, sorry that happened to your wife. Hope the BOTH of you come thru this stronger.

 

More than that, her psychological sense of safety and security was stolen. The CSI got finger prints and DNA. ]The scenario is exactly the kind that anti-gun folks use to suppose there is futility in guns.[/B] My wife consulted a veritable expert, who sold her on a stun gun and a kubaton to always keep at the ready. Obviously, a CCW would have been totally useless in the situation she experienced, having no time to draw at all.L._SL1200_.jpg[/IMG]

yea...... no.

 

We don't really know how strong your wife is, but most would advise against a small weapon of any type because we assume she is of average strength. I don't mean a handgun would not be effective, I mean if she is caught by surprise, nothing will.

Unless she wants to spend many hours training, her best bet is situational awareness coupled with not opening the car door until she knows she is safe. If she is in a locked car, she can fight back in several ways. Maybe she needs a car she can see out better and has a back up camera?

 

You said it was the longest minute of her life, she had an entire minute to draw

 

There is no replacement for a firearm, both in its effectiveness when used and its ease of use for a woman. Firearms are the great equalizer for women. As others have stated, those janky weapons are more likely to either be used against you, or further infuriate someone that has already proven themselves unstable and dangerous.

That being said......... 4-5 years ago I bought a female friend of mine one of those Cat-face keychain weapons from a gun show for $5. I can find a pic if need be, but I'm sure we've all seen what I'm referring to. They are about 4" tall, and you put your fingers through the "eyes" of the kitty, and the ears are meant to be a stabbing tool. Fast forward to New Years eve 3 years ago, and my friend was leaving her job at Buffalo Wild Wings, and headed to her vehicle which was parked in a municipal parking lot that also serves as a Metra (Railway commuter train) parking lot during business hours. As she was approaching her vehicle, luckily with her car keys that the defense kitty was on in hand, a Mercury Mountaineer parked one spot over, with an empty spot in between, started up. The back passenger side door opened up, one male got out of the vehicle and asked my friend for a cigerette. One other male was in the backseat, and two other males in the front of the vehicle. As she was about to respond Male #1 grabs her and drags her towards the open rear door while Male #2 still in the backseat is trying to grab her from behind and pull her in. Luckily she was able to secure the kitty in her right hand and in a downward hammer-first motion put it right into Male #1's right thigh. Straight through his jeans and pierced flesh, still has the blood stain on the purple kitty to prove it. Instinctively he let go and she took off running and screaming through the lot back towards the entrance/street. She is now a CCW holder, and carries daily, but the purple defense kitty saved the day at that time and place. Right on the other side of the tracks is Elmhurst College, so I'm assuming these were some sicko drunk frat losers, and not well coordinated hardened criminals, but its that $5 purple piece of rubber coated metal was worth its weight in gold that night.

How that would be of any use in an actual vehicle, with no way to gain enough leverage/momentum to use it, or the required space I have no idea, but if you're dead set against a hand gun I would look into them. Better than nothing at all that is for sure

 

The tracks by Elmhurst College? Good Lord the Chicago Metropolitan Area has gotten much worse than I would have thought. That's Mom's Alma Mater.

 

Peter,

I'm sorry your wife was frightened, and glad she survived her encounter. I hope her recovery is positive.

G

 

It is this sentiment from so many people that has made her recovery remarkably positive. Thank you.

 

The kubaton has changed quite a bit since the days when i carried one as a keychain to middle school in the late 1980s. I was bullied a lot, and one day, I seized upon the opportunity to put an end to at least one of my tormentors. I was cornered in a stairwell and we were alone. Holding it in my clenched fist, with the keys doubled back i to the palm of my ha d, so as not to allow them to swing around, I closed ground and started wailing on him, both thrusting the metallic key fob end like a knife and jamming the flat wooden end in the manner of an ice pick, as opportunity allowed. He weighed almost twice as much as me, yet the shock value and surprise disoriented him.

I hit him until he stumbled onto the stairs from the landing. Then I hit him repeatedly as he stumbled and rolled down the stairs. Then I called for help, announcing thay he had fallen down the stairs. He chose that embarrassment over admitting that I had beaten him senseless. The school administration knew exactly what had happened. It was obvious that his injuries didn't come from falling down the stairs, but he wouldn't corroborate the obvious, so there was nothing they could do to me.

Long story short, he and I never had a problem after that. In fact, we became friends.

But my anecdote isn't valuable to your situation, as she was dealing with a genuine life and death situation, and I was not. It would be better for her to carry a handgun.

 

I agree with this, my wife bought one of those Kubaton things at the southern women's show a couple of years ago, I told her don't bother with it...

In regard to the OP, I think training with perhaps a small handgun, Derringer? where it would be kept on the seat next her, then when said scumbag demanded her wallet she could make like she is reaching for her wallet but reach for a gun instead, shove it in the perp's face and pull the trigger...

 

The problem with any defensive tool carried by women is it's usually carried in a purse . In the situation the OP described any weapon in the purse would have been useless and ended up in the possession of the bad guy .

I think a good assisted opening knife is a much better option than a kubiton or tactical pen .
No matter what defensive weapon is chosen it has to be easily accessible , always kept in the same place and need to train and practice using it .

I think self defense training would help to get back some sense of safety and security .

 

Op, you mentioned she would not have had time to draw a handgun. However, when taken by surprise, you have to do what has been dubbed "EARN the draw". This means that you have to distract, fight, punch, dodge or otherwise disorient the OODA loop of the attacker in order to be able to draw the firearm.
So, yes, she may have been able to draw, but she may have had to lock her door, use pepper spray, throw a surprise punch, use the kubaton or whatever. Once she has blown his battle plan up, she may have that 2 seconds she needs to draw and fire while he decides how to react to her change in action.

Sorry she was attacked. Glad she was not seriously hurt. Hopefully this will get her thinking and training to never be a victim again.

 

Things like kubatons , tactical pens , stun guns and other gadgets are ok defense tools but nothing beats a gun or a knife .

 

I think an assisted opening knife would be a much better option than Kubaton or a tactical pen .

Things like kubatons , tactical pens , stun guns and other gadgets are ok defense tools but nothing beats a gun or a knife

Any self defense weapon that is chosen needs to be easily accessible , always kept in the same place and trained & practiced with regularly .

Problem is a lot of women keep everything , including self defense tools , in their purse . In the OPs scenario a weapon in the purse would have been totally useless and ended up in the hands of the bad guy .

I think some self defense training would help the OP's wife get back some sense of safety and security .

I think any weapon involving a woman go hand to hand with a male adversary only increases the likely hood of them getting killed.

men have 40 percent more muscle mass in the upper body and 33 percent more in the lower body

muscle fibers in men are about 10% stronger than a woman


and about 12-15% greater lung capacity

equals a very very bad day in hand to hand

 

I'm thinking Krav Maga. It teaches situational awareness and responding to seemingly ramdom attacks.

If I had the ability to drive, I would definitely be taking Krav Maga and carrying CCW.

 

I think any weapon involving a woman go hand to hand with a male adversary only increases the likely hood of them getting killed.

men have 40 percent more muscle mass in the upper body and 33 percent more in the lower body

muscle fibers in men are about 10% stronger than a woman


and about 12-15% greater lung capacity

equals a very very bad day in hand to hand

I agree with this. Yet lets keep in mind that most men who attack random women are either stupid or on drugs. Then there are the truly evil who want to take them some where and do things to them.

So in my mind, stabbing them in the eye is not to beat them but slow them down to the point where the screaming running woman can get away.

Remember, the adrenaline the comes from fear can make a women very strong if she can channel it. This contradicts my earlier post because I have had a chance to think about it.

 

attackers also get the same rush of adrenaline generally, and even stupid men or ones on drugs still generally have more experience getting in fights than your avg person. you don't see your local DR or generally upstanding members of society getting into bar fights and the like

adrenaline or not still bad idea. just like there some dudes I wouldn't fight even if I am technichally better at fighting the mass strength disparity would put me at a huge disadvantage.


what I would honestly be looking at in this situation is this. her attacker has been watching her, most parking lots at 5 am are not the most well lit nor is the inside of a car. so how would he know to start running for her car when it entered the lot vs waiting for someone else? maybe it was completely random but I trend towards assuming things are by design vs random
and seeing he was successful once. I would imagine a round two in the future

As my wife drove right up to the video the perp jumped the fence. She backed up into the parking spot as is her habit. The perp is seen running from her right toward the back of the car in a crouched position so as not to be seen EVEN AS she was driving backwards looking in that general direction. (Due to a neck injury she ALWAYS turns her head the other way when driving in reverse).

my question would be why is someone after his wife. not so much on things to make someone feel safe like a kubaton or pepper spray

 

You have to be kidding me. The ultimate online woman-basher's wife was assaulted in real life by a stranger? How am I surprised that he hasn't trained her in self-defense, with a weapon, an effective weapon, such as a gun? Sympathy to your wife for her pain. I recommend that she, on her own, looks into effective self-defense training. :xeye:

 

You have to be kidding me. The ultimate online woman-basher's wife was assaulted in real life by a stranger?

As pathetic a post as this is, I will respond. You are confusing my opposition to man-hating and fraudulent feminism as 'bashing women.'

How am I surprised that he hasn't trained her in self-defense, with a weapon, an effective weapon, such as a gun?

As if I am her master, she a dog who does as she is told - and I failed to live up to some responsibility you suppose I have. :whip: :zombie

For your information, my wife is a moral agent, who makes her own choices - and I respect that. She has a gun and has been trained. If you cannot grasp how having her gun concealed would not have made a difference - given the facts already presented - I'll reserve choice words for you. :taped:

NOTE TO PRO GUN FOLKS: I agree that a gun at the ready would have been the best weapon. It is my understanding having a loaded gun in a car, not concealed, in the front seat is prohibited in almost every State. Please confirm because I do not think that is a legal option.

My wife's experience shows the stupidity of such laws.

Sympathy to your wife for her pain. I recommend that she, on her own, looks into effective self-defense training. :xeye:

Yea, your sympathy comes through - loud and clear. :wow

 

PE, I am very sorry to hear about the attack on your wife. Many of us on this forum feel like we are all friends, and it really bothers me to hear this.

I've talked about being attacked a number of times here. First off, a capable firearm is, in my opinion, the only viable choice. Being involved in a physical fight is never a first choice. The firearm eliminates the risks involved in a physical skirmish/melee, an area where women traditionally fare poorly. With good training, good experience and a good setup a firearm is unbeatable.

Don't know where you live, and/or what the firearms laws are there. But we as citizens in good standing must first consider our needs before conforming to some overly restrictive law.

The only reason I survived the attack was that the gun was IN MY HAND prior to getting out of my car. I pulled it out of the glove box PRIOR to stopping. So many of us are afraid to expose a gun. But the reality is that it can only be a useful tool when in hand.

I have a hard mounted, uncle mikes holster that the gun goes in, during travel. It's at the ready. Gets put away if I get pulled over. Simple, easy, safe and ready to go.


EDIT: I realize I was lucky that I had time to pull my gun from the glove box. I won't make that mistake again. It's now always at my right hand.

 

I posted something along these lines before reading this EXCELLENT ADVICE.

Glad you survived and can share your insights.

1. Hand to hand with a woman against a man is a losing option for the woman
2. Women need to have excellent situational awareness, a gun, training, and having the gun in hand or instantly accessible.
3. Women need to have the drive to USE deadly force.

 

I want to add an analogy.

Ever notice how often you can't get your iPhone to take a picture in time? Takes a second to get the phone to the home screen, then takes a second or more to open the camera app.

A firearm is no different. Every additional step required to retrieve your gun is a step towards failure. Keeping Mace on your keychain is a perfect example. I guarantee you won't be able to pull the keys from the ign while sitting at a stoplight. Sure it's a simple matter. I promise you can't do it in time.

Having a revolver at the ready, in a very specific position (hard mounted holster) by your Right hand is the probably the only way to retrieve it in time once your window/door is breached. And, yes I like revolvers for women. They work every time and there is no risk of a jam or not having a round in the chamber.

And for God's sake, a proper gun will fire right through a door or window if necessary. That alone makes it the right choice.

 

A lot of people recognise a kobotan especially the pointy knock offs. But how they are used is different than what you might expect. They do take training but then they become an effective pain compliance tool. They can put a lot of hurt with not a lot of damage with little effort. But for a small woman vs large attacker in limited space, not so effective. For making someone come along they are great but you really don't want them close in your situation, do you?

 

You are shooting yourself in the foot over thinking your response. You don't pain compliance anybody. You sewing machine attack them in the face.

 

I don't understand why you say a gun would be useless, but a kubotan or a stun gun would be an option. If she had time to arm herself with one of the latter, then I see no reason a gun would not be a possibility as well. Granted there is a concern of a gun being taken from her, but that could happen with either one of the other choices too.

 

the biggest issue with say a fire arm vs say a tazer that shoots, is the natural aversion to kill another human being, that natural aversion causes the person to freeze maybe for a fraction of a second to the opposite end of the spectrum and curl up behind a rock in a ball and don't shoot back. ive seen both in cherries.

the tazer type advantage is that your brain knows its "non lethal" and therefore there is less hesitation to use it on someone. while still being able to be a distance weapon and immediately incapacitating. vs a knife or kubaton that if you screw up and get it used on you wont kill you.

 

the biggest issue with say a fire arm vs say a tazer that shoots, is the natural aversion to kill another human being, that natural aversion causes the person to freeze maybe for a fraction of a second to the opposite end of the spectrum and curl up behind a rock in a ball and don't shoot back. ive seen both in cherries.

the tazer type advantage is that your brain knows its "non lethal" and therefore there is less hesitation to use it on someone. while still being able to be a distance weapon and immediately incapacitating. vs a knife or kubaton that if you screw up and get it used on you wont kill you.

That's a man thing. Men are more likely to pull a weapon. Women are more likely to fire a weapon. Fear is a great motivator. Men are more afraid of being laughed at or humiliated. Women are more afraid of being mutilated or killed, and rightly so.

 

Software problem can't be fixed with hardware!

Until she can learn awareness nothing much you can do!

SD